Interesting that in a world financial crises the primates meet in luxury.

"A new traditionalist grouping from North America, led by deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop, will also present a new constitution and canons to the Primates in an attempt to secure recognition as the 39th province of the 77-million strong Church."
- Ruth Gledhill - Times on Line

How, possibly, can a Primates Meeting of the AC include a presentation by a deposed Bishop of one of the provincial bodies (TEC) - especially when the ex-bishop has no authority within the Province where he was once a bishop?

Ms. Gledhill also says that "..no Primates are boycotting next week's meeting, although one source (sic) said there will be no formal joint Eucharist at the meeting, to avoid Primates the public embarrassment of former meetings where conservatives have refused to go to the communion table with liberals"

If this is true (and there is room for doubt, given that Ms Gledhill does not reveal her source)
then what does this mean for the Eucharistic solidarity of the the Anglican Communion? To repeat the scandal of the Lambeth meeting and the Dar Es Salaam meeting of Primates where Bishops of the Church were disposed to ignore the call to share in the Eucharist, must exacerbate what the outside world sees as our disunity. How can the Church proceed on such a basis of mistrust? The 'embarrassment' on this occasion will certainly become public - on a world-wide basis.

"...

@Eric - the Helnan is not the most luxurious hotel in Alexandria - that's the four seasons. altho helnan is rated number two on tripadvisor. wierdly tho the four seasons is cheaper. hmm.

Personally, I love a bit of luxury, but this does seem to me to be an unwise choice of venue, under the circumstances and given the agenda paper.
I hope they're starting every day with Bible study. I sugest Proverbs xv:17 for starters.

"deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop"

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I am OZ the MAGNIFICENT!"

What does ex-bishop Dunkin' think he's Archbishop of?

more seriously, if it is true that they will not share the one thing that defines the Anglican Communion - the Eucharistic Feast - then the Anglican 'Communion' has very little reality to hang on to.

On a minor pedantic note, Sisson should be spelled Sison. Thanks!

The primates have refused to participate in a common Eucharist for the past six years -- no "Communion" in the "Communion," alas.

I have engaged in some Nervous Nellyisms ;-/ (about the Primates Meeting, and the "5 Primates Reflect" presentation therein), here: http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/anglican_communion/abc_asks_5_primates_for_reflec.html

Quote. Still, we might remember that difficult as all of this is, the Anglican Communion does not rest on the Primates being in fellowship. The Anglican Communion is about churches in relation, in relation about real concerns and hopes for mission. Common action around the "five marks of mission" is a better plumb line by which to measure the health of the Communion than any measure of consensus among the Primates. Unquote.

From comments on blog Preludium by Mark Harris.

Me? Ditto.

"The agenda for next week’s 2009 Primates’ Meeting will avoid taking action on the problems dividing the Anglican Communion, focussing its energies on discussion on how to discuss keeping the truth claim alive within the church."
-George Conger - 'Religious Intelligence' -

If George is right on this one (and 'Religious Intelligence' is known to be astray on occasion) then there can be no decision made about the GAFCON request for a separate Province in North America. Any decision on this seems to have been pronounced a non-starter (decision avoided).

On the subject of any provision to invite GAFCON leadership to press the case for a 39th Province,
one must ask whether a 'persona non grata' ex-bishop of TEC would be acceptable by all the Primates as a fit person to present the case. Surely, to receive Bob Duncan as an 'Archbishop' in good standing in the Communion would be a move that might be considered provocative by TEC, if not by the other Primates? Perhaps, on the other hand, it may be that the non-Primatial Secretary of GAFCON Peter Jensen, will be the prime mover?
It will be most interesting to find out who is going to spearhead this request for a 39th Province - that is, if it is indeed tabled.

One wonders how the admission of another, self-styled 'Orthodox', Province would advance the "Truth Claim" that George Conger speaks of in his article - as being one of the primary goals of the Primates' Meeting?

Well....is anyone surprised that the ABC will want Bishop Duncan also still at the table talking? That's always been his goal.....all views always at the table talking - no decisions, just talking....

Clearly, most Primates have not changed their views since 2003.....so TEC has to find a way to stay in Rowan's club. Fact is that TEC is too small to be relevant (even in the US) outside the AC and so it will sign whatever Williams asks to be signed in order to stay in .....eg BO33 (brave, principled stance from TEC???)

"Surely, to receive Bob Duncan as an 'Archbishop' in good standing in the Communion would be a move that might be considered provocative by TEC, if not by the other Primates?"

OK - what does he claim to be archbishop OF?

Cynthia - below-quoted is an extract from the article by Ruth Gledhill, mentioned above:

"A new traditionalist grouping from North America, led by deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop, will also present a new constitution and canons to the Primates in an attempt to secure recognition as the 39th province of the 77-million strong Church."

So, Cynthia, in answer to your question it seems that the CANA convenors are happy, for the moment, to defer to former Bishop Bob as their putative archbishop. Of course, he has not yet been canonically appointed Archbishop of anywhere, but it suits their purpose at the present time to let Bobby have his day in the limelight. One has, of course, been aware for some time of this former bishop's ambition to be given the pallium as head of the new consortium of churches in North America, but where Ruth got the title of Archbishop from, she doesn't say.

Shouldn't Shoemaker be International Banker now in London and attends at HTB?

This is quite interesting regarding the strategy of said Rowan Williams:

http://accurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2008/11/understanding-rowan-williams-for-first.html

Ron, the deposed bishop of Pittsburgh actually refers to himself now as "Archbishop-designate."

Many of us have long believed that all this drama was ultimately about creating something for Bobby to be head of.

Ren
Thanks for the correction, now fixed.

If 'TEC is too small to be relevant' Shoemaker why all the fuss ?

In Britain there are words for people who are appointed to the archiepiscopate by - erm - themselves ! ...

' . . Many participants believed that the indaba method, while not designed to achieve final decisions, was such a necessary aspect of understanding what the questions might be'.

Yes this is real progress - though long resisted through the Carey years.

'understanding what the real questions might be'
as a religious conservative I support this whole-heartedly.

BUT ACNA is liberal..no fault divorce, contraception and women priests.....

But Robert, ACNA is A-OK on the one doctrine that really matters to these people: no (honest) fags allowed.

That is their sole test of orthodoxy.

Thanks for the curmodgeon link. I still do not quite know what I think of Rowan Williams. I guess some of that will unfold as the covenant thang slowly goes forward.

I still do not understand how Rowan thinks he will help construct a new, fair, peaceful, open Anglican space by pronouncing that space mainly interested in and welcoming of the high comforts and needs of straight folks, while keeping the queer folks (as small a minority as they are) in limbo or outside of the new, improved Anglican global space being covenanted. Then policed.

If Rowan thinks that traditionalistic bad faith flat earth limbo-outsider-sexual orientation sinner stuff will still do just fine for queer folks, he hasn't been hanging around very much and listening very attentivly to, say, all those PFLAG moms/dads/brothers/sisters or with the ten million USA children parented by queer folks. In USA, a whole lot of both groups fly various progressive believer banners, including TEC banners.

I must be missing some key element in Rowan's thinking.

ACNA the Church for helping lawyers.....how they must sing , what a friend we have in Jesus.

Sorry got the song wrong...its Where have all the lawyers gone ? Gone to ACNA everyone......when will they ever learn, we shaft them every time......apologies to where have all the flowers gone.