Saturday, 1 August 2009

opinions as August begins

Face to Faith in the Guardian has an article by Steve Parish, a Warrington vicar, on how Westminster Abbey’s corona is not the first ‘how the other half lives’ issue to have split the church.

Justin Lewis-Anthony has responded to the Cif belief Question of the week, Do we need saints? with an article titled Closer to God.

Malcolm Evans explained in last week’s Church Times why we are witnessing not discrimination against the Church, but a move towards equality with other faiths. Read Christianity is losing its privileges.

Also, Jill Segger writes that Faith gives no right to be offensive.

John Shepherd writes in The Times that Religions are different streams leading to a single sea.

Giles Fraser asks in this week’s Church Times Are you Anglican or C of E?

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 8:22am BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Opinion

Giles Fraser again is right on in his observant essay. I would add that General Convention (as noble as it was, and the newsworthiness of it being evident) doesn't mean a hoot to the average ECUSA worshiper, we gather for church on Sunday (and more often if we're employed in the church) and get about connecting to God.

As for the two-tiered (did I say separate but equal?) communion on the British Isles, Giles and ++Rowry are a little behind the times. The C of E has in my mind been in schism ever since it allowed the Forward in Faith folks to get away with it's "Flying Bishops" scheme to appease misogynist bigots in it's ranks. Like it or not, it's reality folks.

Posted by: choirboyfromhell on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 12:30pm BST

Meanwhile Dr. Williams continues to push a ¨covenant¨ that would frantically bind CoE, TEC, ACoC and many others together with those who would demonize, initiate massacres/witch hunts against others and thieve to get what they think they ought have...what´s wrong here as the ABC seems to be afraid to view the miserable/murderous REALITY of The Anglican Communion in the whole?

Posted by: Leonardo Ricardo on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 2:41pm BST

All those who attend church will identify with Mrs Jones. The travails of the Communion seem a world away as soon as you enter church on a Sunday. But those of the Internet age who do not attend only see it through the prism of the current debate. A lot of people are only too aware of it especially in the gay community: Stonewall awarded its 'Bigot of the Year' to an Anglican bishop one year, and its 'Hero of the Year' to another Anglican bishop the following year.

Posted by: Hugh of Lincoln on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 4:51pm BST

How very offensive of the interestingly names 'choirboyfromhell' to refer to those with whom he disagrees as misogynist bigots. Not nice. Please show some respect to those with whom you might disagree, but who hold those views with integrity.

Posted by: Neil on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 9:46pm BST

Yes, Giles has it right.

Posted by: Martin Reynolds on Saturday, 1 August 2009 at 10:29pm BST

Good old Father Giles (Fraser). I'm so glad you are going to shortly be speaking from the pulpit of the Parish Church of London - Saint Paul's. May you be gifted with as much insight as you have displayed so far from your more limited pulpit in Putney. Your take on the relative unconcern of the average member of the Church of England for the divisive politics of some members of the world-wide Communion is spot on.

Likewise, we in the Anglican Church of Aotearoa New Zealand and Polynesia are mostly indifferent to the goings on in the Global South sodality, which seems to want to divide and rule the Communion on issues of sexuality and biblical fundamentalism. What we have inherited from the Church of England is it's 3-legged stool ethos of Scripture, Tradition and REASON - the last of which seems to have been jettisonned by those of the Global South confederacy, which wants the Church to return to the flat-earth policies of pre-enlightenment Roman Catholicism (but with a mostly Protestant flavour of Victorian pietism).

It may be that Anglicans around the world will have to return to their original missionary status as individual Churches, in order to meet the real needs of the people they have been called into being to serve. That won't be so bad after all, will it?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Sunday, 2 August 2009 at 2:23am BST

Neil, I can understand you being upset at my choice of names, but the players that have broken the AC are not nice people, and besides, I'm too old and impatient to put up with their mean-spiritedness any longer. A spade is a spade. I respect your scolding, but it's how I feel.

Posted by: choirboyfromhell on Sunday, 2 August 2009 at 2:45am BST

....and as Gerry Lynch stated in another blogsight, it's gloves off folks....

Posted by: choirboyfromhell on Sunday, 2 August 2009 at 3:20pm BST

I'm a bit with CBFH, insofar as I try to weigh folks - especially leaders, preachers - by what they do or do not do; not just what they say.

In this regard, the FiF folks are surely weighed in the balance and found wanting. One of two things so far tilts towards still happening. One tilt is that once such folks have gathered themselves safely into their woman-clergy free zones, they feel less and less involved in any help to maintain the big tent which could possibly still include women called of God, recognized by other Anglican communities/parishes, and all that. This is pretty damaging, since being safe from ordained women fairly automatically translates into small time, irresponsible global Anglican citizenship, when viewed from a traditional big tent angle.

Such FiF or other woman clergy free believers say they are one integrity related to a second Anglican integrity; but they have little need to care about or assist the other integrity any more than minimally needed or required; and they take every church life or public opportunity to preach that the alleged other integrity is bad, bad, bad, bad. Good citizenship? Hardly.

Our next problem tilt is that such folks are not just withdrawing into their own cliques, but actively assisting in any number of ways to rend the global big tent, and actually help tear it down by claiming a closed orthodoxy that in fact we all hear as preached, better and holding more integrity, than the off-handedly other integrity.

Insult, added to injury then. Good Anglican citizenship? Thinking Anglicans will have to make up their own minds, watching the real believers do real world things, a preponderance of which has the reliable effect of collapsing the existing Anglican global big tents.

Posted by: drdanfee on Sunday, 2 August 2009 at 7:31pm BST
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