Saturday, 10 July 2010

opinion for a synod

Dave Walker has this view of the Synod at his Church Times blog.

The Seminal has this Saturday Art article: William Warham, Archbishop of Canterbury by Hans Holbein the Younger.

Emma John asks in The Guardian Should women ever be bishops? It’s an issue which could result in schism and put the future of the church in jeopardy. Four women who would be in line for the top job, reveal why it’s time for Christians to put their differences behind them.

Ellen Painter Dollar writes on the her.meneutics blog: Confessions of a Church-Skipping Mom. Is it better to attend church burnt out and stressed, or occasionally stay home but miss corporate worship?

Theo Hobson writes in The Guardian about A new model Christianity. The “emerging church” movement may offer something more than new manners and styles if it breaks free of establishment.

Albert Radcliffe argues in The Guardian that The Bible is an open book. The Bible does not end moral debates on gay rights and the role of women. Its pronouncements are there to open discussion.

Jack Valero writes in The Guardian about The sad demise of celibate love. It is symptomatic of modern values that we conclude Cardinal Newman’s intense love for a man meant he was a homosexual.

Philip Ritchie writes on his blog about Gossip: cancer of the community.

Giles Fraser writes in the Church Times that Turkish scars need healing

Graham Kings asks at Fulcrum Should Christians share Christ with People of other Faiths?

Posted by Peter Owen on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 9:58am BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Opinion

I think again Ritchie is off the mark here; one has to ask oneself - when is gossip, rumour etc. most virulent and pervasive? The more control, the more gossip. I witnessed this in the Soviet Union, where the wildest rumours would emerge and spread. Where there is openness and justice, rumour has about as much chance as a snowball in hell.

When is the CoE going to wake up! Every Sunday I hear prayers for our leaders: well, the leaders have been chosen, and their mandate is equality before the law.

As another poster has said - under no other guise or type of platform would anyone with the clearly anti-homosexual and anti-women sentiments that the so-called orthodox entertain get anywhere if scrutinized by the populace at large, the very same populace at large that put the sacrosanct leaders into office.

When will the 'orthodox' be able to separate out procedure from substance, ritual from love, labyrinthine 'tradition' from living gospel?

It's a fairly straightforward test. When Jesus said 'hypocrites' did he mean 'hey, you are being lax, and the spirit shouldn't be the remotest excuse for licence' or did he mean 'hey, you guys who go on about the rules and confuse this wilfully with being righteous, the letter should in no way hinder the spirit'?

The ordinary people out there, you know, the ones who are poor, ignorant, the ones who pay taxes, fight wars for us and receive derision and snobbery and a bad education in return - THEY can tell the difference.

Why is it that the supposedly well-educated, the erudite, the well-positioned, the rich and the influential cannot or will not recognize it?

Posted by: Achilles on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 11:40am BST

"It's creating two different types of bishop based on gender" says Rev Lucy Winkett, Canon Precentor of St. Paul's Cathedral (London, UK), "which in any other area of public life would be called discrimination. We would be enshrining in our very fabric a sinse that women are not as much of a bishop as men are."

- article by Emma John, 'Guardian' -

Canon Lucy in only saying what many of us outside of the Church of England (in the Provinces) think about the possibility of following up on the amendments threatened to passage of the Motion for the Ordination of Women to the Episcopate prepared by the Special Commission, which spend a long time coming to a majority agreement on the measure: to Ordain Women Bishops without special provisions being made for 'Transfer of Jurisdiction' - in whatever way the Archbishops or 'Forward in Faith' conservatives might suggest.

To out-vote the Commission's proposals would be to put the Church of England back 20 years in coming to terms with Women in the Ministry of the Church. In the meantime, other Provinces will continue to rejoice in their acceptance of Women in all three Orders in their Churches. And women will still be second-class citizens in the Kingdom of God in England.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 12:23pm BST

I, too, found Ritchie's comment somewhat off. Writing from thepoint of view of TEC, which has a much moretransparent process, I do think that excessive secrecy only breeds speculation and innuendo. There is a difference between confidentitality, which is meant to protect, and secrecy, which is meant to hide.

As for the attacks on ++Rowan, I have been guilty of name-calling in the past, which I regret. I will not, however, refrain from calling a spade a spade.

I'm sure his family does hurt. My now retired Bishop Peter James Lee endured far more vitriolic public commentary, to his face and in the presence of his wife, in a series of open meeteings he held after voting to consecrate +Gene. [When was the last time ++Rowan held an open meeting to explain/defencd his actions?]

Most of those who said such nasty things ['you will burn in hell for this' being one I heard] are now in the care of various overseas dioceses, including the global south ones to whom ++Rowan sees it needful to kowtow.

Posted by: Cynthia Gilliatt on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 2:14pm BST

I asked,idly I suppose, when was the last time the ABC had convened an open meeting to explain himself and answer questions from members of the C of E and/or the general public, I was being silly, I know.

But does he ever have press conferences when he invites questions?

Our +Katharine does do press interviews, usually one of one, but she also meets with smallish groups to answer questions. She does this fairly routinely when she visits dioceses and when she is overseas. And of course since she is not the head of an established religion, there is likely less press interest here.

So - does the ABC hold press conferences? Open meetings? Meetings with small groups? [And I'm not thinkng about the notorious secret homo-mass].

Posted by: Cynthia Gilliatt on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 5:23pm BST

"Should Christians Share Christ with People of Other Faiths?"

We did. It was called The Crusades. (Later, "Colonialism.")

Posted by: Murdoch on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 6:44pm BST

I find Jack Valero's piece "The sad demise of celibate love" misguided, if not outright distasteful and prejudicial.

The "-sexual" in homosexual refers to *same-gender* of a relationship (or persons in it), NOT to erotic attractions or acts!

If Newman was in a loving life-commitment w/ another of his same gender, then he WAS *homosexual*, Full Stop. It's nobody's business whether his life w/ Ambrose St. John included erotic acts or not (Well, OK: the business of their RC bishop, having taken a Vow of Celibacy---in contradistinction, I might add, to CofE clergy in civil partnerships today!)

I recently read (can't remember which board) someone say that "celibate homosexual relationship was an oxymoron." What tripe!

Homophobes just CANNOT *not* think about homosexual S-E-X, can they? That's *their* problem (QED, Mr Valero!)

Posted by: JCF on Saturday, 10 July 2010 at 10:14pm BST

My response would be: "Share Christ? Certainly. Force him upon others? Never."

Posted by: Pat O'Neill on Sunday, 11 July 2010 at 3:20am BST

"We did. It was called The Crusades. (Later, "Colonialism.")"

Unfair, and (I think) also untrue; surely the Crusades weren't an evangelization strategy, but had as its religious excuse the protection of Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land. It was also many other things - a way to occupy surplus young men and an excuse for rape, pillage and murder, among them. But to associate evangelization with it won't fly.

Posted by: Bill Dilworth on Sunday, 11 July 2010 at 5:48pm BST

I agree with JCF about the homophobic Valero article. There used to be a portrait of JHN's beloved Richard Hurrell Froude in the "monastery" in Littlemore - a stunningly beautiful Dorian Gray. This has now mysteriously disappeared, in what I suspect is part of the conservative Catholic move to erase all traces of JHN's homosexual disposition. There is no evidence that JHN had strong or passionate feelings about any women, other than a sister who died young. JHN had a mischievous and wily side, as is seen in the way he outwitted the grave-robbers by specifying that his coffin was to be of plain wood and mulched to ensure rapid decomposition. Rereading the Grammar of Assent just now, I am amazed at its modernity (and the charming urbanity of his presence to the reader). Its opposition of real to notional is a subtle critique of scholastic theology and an effort to clear the authentic grounds of Christian faith.

Posted by: Spirit of Vatican II on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 3:05am BST

I urge allcomers, and please will they urge their friends and their friends friends, ... , to read, mark, learn and inwardly digest (my fellow parishioner) Albert Radcliffe's article on CIF Belief. According to one comment over there, "This article should be on the National Curriculum."

Posted by: Leslie Fletcher on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 9:55am BST

Bill Dilworth writes "surely the Crusades weren't an evangelization strategy" -- ironically reflecting my point that Christians in the past have tended to attack, suppress, or supplant other faiths rather than to share with them. But evangelizing is probably what the Fulcrum piece was about -- I just reacted to the headline, which seemed oblivious to history.

Posted by: Murdoch on Tuesday, 13 July 2010 at 7:26am BST
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