Thinking Anglicans

English church press reports on ECUSA

The church newspapers publish a day early this week, because of Good Friday. So today we have:

Church Times ECUSA commission backtracks on gays and the resolutions are republished here.

Church of England Newspaper ECUSA to slow liberal agenda by George Conger.

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Derek
Derek
14 years ago

“Backtrack”? Did they read the resolutions? It seems to me that the resolutions do nothing of the sort. Instead they offer language that is cautious but allows quite a variety of interpretations depending on what the reader *wants* to read. The passage “extreme caution” can be legitimately interpreted: “be very careful but go ahead with it if you must” OR “under no circumstances”. Same with the private-not-public-care. It could be interpred either as: “No SSU period” OR “Services already authorized are fine as long as it doesn’t have a whole-community nature about it.” These resolutions are too open, I fear,… Read more »

Tobias S Haller BSG
Tobias S Haller BSG
14 years ago

Might I point out, in relation to the “public/private” language, that according to the parochial report forms and other record-keeping paraphernalia of the Episcopal Church (Register of Church Services) ALL marriages are considered “private services” unless performed as part of a regularly scheduled liturgy (which I dare say is uncommon). This is so because, as the church teaches, even though the liturgy may take place in a “public” forum, the rite itself is “private” in that the ministers of the rite (the couple) are the sole participants, all others being “witnesses” and “supporters.” There is, then, clearly a difference between… Read more »

Rev. Kurt Huber
Rev. Kurt Huber
14 years ago

Dr. Ian Douglas is not the Bishop of Mass. but a professor at EDS.

[SS notes: this is a reference to the Church Times article which is in error on this point.]

Marshall Scott
14 years ago

Derek, I think that’s accurate: the resolutions to allow some interpretation. I don’t think resolutions that would satisfy the separationist folks such as Akinola would be likely to come to General Convention at all. Some might be proposed by individual deputies or dioceses, but I would be shocked were they to pass. I doubt that any action that Convention might actually take would satisfy them. Don’t underestimate the fact that Bishop Robinson’s election was confirmed by majorities of more than 60% both among bishops and among clergy and lay deputies. Since our bishops and our deputations are elected in diocesan… Read more »

Jon
Jon
14 years ago

If TEC’s position is adequate according to Archbishop Williams and the other moderates in the communion, then the pressure gets turned around to the conservatives. If Archbishop Akinola is unwilling to go along with the majority, he is the one the moderates will reject rather than TEC.

Jon

Jim Pratt
Jim Pratt
14 years ago

It is an attempt to put the brakes on (at least temporarily) and restore the bonds of fellowship, which is what Windsor asks for. The open questions are (1) whether the House of Delegates goes along with the bishops, or decides to push forward, and (2) whether either Akinola & Co. or the leavers within ECUSA are satisfied with something that falls short of their demands.

steven
steven
14 years ago

Jon:

Your post left me scratching my head. Who are these “moderates”? By “moderate” I’m assuming you mean someone who’s in between the two extreme positions.

As far as I can tell the disputes at issue are yes/no issues. So, I have a hard time envisioning an intermediate position. Are you indicating a group that doesn’t agree with ECUSA’s positions, but not strongly enough to break communion over the issue? And, if so, what provinces are you including here?

Steven

Tobias S Haller BSG
Tobias S Haller BSG
14 years ago

Steven,
Japan and South Africa have said (officially IIRC) exactly what Jon is talking about: they are not happy about the same-sex issue, but do not feel it necessary to sever the communion over it. That is well described, I think, as a moderate position.
Tobias
Blessed Holy Saturday and a glorious Easter to all…

steven
steven
14 years ago

Tobias: Thank you for your wishes for a glorious Easter and may you and all others reading likewise be blessed during this most blessed time. Also, thanks for your clarification. However, to follow up on my question: Jon implies a “moderate” majority who will turn on Akinola and the conservatives. The COE, Japan and South Africa do not make a “moderate” majority of the communion. In fact, I thought the majority of the communion (both in terms of number of provinces and number of worshipers) was with the conservatives. This is the source of some of my confusion. Three provinces… Read more »

Jon
Jon
14 years ago

At the last meeting of the ACC who voted against asking TEC and Canada to stay away from the ACC until after Lambeth 2008? That is where I would start looking for names, and the votes there are some of the primary reasons I think there are enough moderates to swing things in favor of either side. IIRC Scotland and Wales are more liberal than moderate, but Brazil might perhaps be included in the list of moderates (as opposed to liberals) along with Ireland, Sudan, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, the Philippines, in addition to the churches Tobias listed.

Jon

Tobias S Haller BSG
Tobias S Haller BSG
14 years ago

Thank you, Jon. I didn’t mention the more “liberal” provinces because I thought Steven’s question was specifically about the “moderates”; I think your list shows the weight of support or at the least willingness to tolerate that exists out there. (I can think of a few others who could be added: the Caribbean, for example; and my sources inform me that Abp Gomez aside, the West Indies is not so firmly in the Global South as some might think. There are also a few other African Provinces that will weigh this matter closely before parting ways with the rest of… Read more »

steven
steven
14 years ago

Hmmm. Thanks Jon and Tobias. An interesting analysis. It will be interesting indeed to see how things shake out when push comes to shove.

But, enough about unpleasant topics. Tomorrow we say: He is risen indeed!

Steven

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