Thinking Anglicans

what is going on in Kenya?

There has been a series of news reports from the Nairobi newspapers in the last few days about the visit of a delegation of Chelmsford Diocese to the Anglican Church of Kenya.

Nation
21 May Anglican gay lobby patron visits Kenya or this copy. Also this copy.
22 May Bishop denies gay lobby links or this copy. Also this copy.

East African Standard
22 May I have no gay links, says UK clergyman or this copy.
23 May ACK still opposed to gay marriages or this copy.

A series of press releases published on the Changing Attitude website sheds some light on the matter:
22 May John Gladwin falsely accused of lobbying for homosexuality in Kenya
22 May Archbishop of Kenya unable to “advance the lined-up activities” for Bishop Gladwin’s visit to Kenya (Anglican Church of Kenya press release)
23 May The Bishop of Chelmsford and the Anglican Church of Kenya (Diocese of Chelmsford press release)
23 May Senior Kenyan Anglican holds different views on homosexuality from the Archbishop

Also this copy of the second item above.

The explanation for all of this can be found in the following:
STATEMENT BY CHELMSFORD ANGLICAN MAINSTREAM

21
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
21 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
16 Comment authors
Bob SNersen PillayJohn DJ. C. FisherMarshall Scott Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
John Richardson
Guest

I’m not sure what is meant by the statement above that “the explanation for all this” can be found in the statement by Chelmsford Anglican Mainstream. I can say categorically that they were completely surprised by Bishop John’s decision to accept the offer to become a patron of Changing Attitude, which was announced in the church press here on Thursday. The story broke in the secular press in Kenya some time on Sunday, and a close examination of the newspaper reports suggests that the press got hold of it well before the Church authorities there. How this came to be,… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

From The Standard: “The story claimed that the bishop was the patron of a gay and lesbian lobby group in the UK and was in the country to preach at the Mbeere ACK diocese.” “If the story were true, we would not have dared to step in any church in this country,” [Canon]Mathews told the congregation.” Err, hadn’t Bp Gladwin told Canon Mathews that he had just become a patron of Changing Attitude ? And that CA is a lobbying group for Gays and Lesbians that has the headline aim of “The day when the Anglican Churches fully accept, welcome… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Perusing the Changing Attitude homepage I find no list of “patrons” and I must confess that the links given do little to enlighten me.

So what is this?

Slander? Truthiness? Angry congregationalists lobbying for lay “presidency”?

Can anyone knowlegable please inform me!

J. C. Fisher
Guest

“Furthermore, we note that Bishop John is not alone in his patronage of ‘Changing Attitude’, and that the bishops of Wolverhampton, St Edmundsbury and Ipswich, Ripon and Leeds, Lincoln and Worcester are also listed as patrons. All of them seem thereby committed to taking the Church of England in a direction that would estrange it from the majority of the Anglican Communion and the worldwide Church.”

Who’s “estranging” whom?

This would seem to be the equivalent by “Anglican Mainstream” {*cough* Read as “Extreme” *cough*} to murder their parents, and then demand allowances because they’re orphans… >:-/

John Richardson
Guest

The sequence of events leading up to the CAM Statement to which you refer started with an automatically generated Google Alert for “Church of England” which I received on Thursday the 18th listing a number of articles in the Church of England Newspaper. One of these concerned the minister in Cunmor who had resigned because he was considering entering a homosexual relationship, at the foot of which was a paragraph about +John Gladwin becoming a patron of ‘Changing Attitude’. I wrote this up as an expanded article, which was posted, as might be expected, on the CAM website and was… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“Public support would just be read as public support for his cause!”

Now, if this is not “guilt by association”… what is?

Colin Coward
Guest

The patrons of Changing Attitude can be found on the web site by clicking on the plus next to ‘About Changing Attitude’, at the top left of the home page. In the list which opens, you will find patrons.

Nersen Pillay
Guest
Nersen Pillay

Just read an article on the Bishop of Chelmsford. What I continually fail to understand is the “doublespeak” we hear from people who are supposed speak with honesty. How is it possible to simultaneously claim to be committed to upholding the teaching of the church and at the same time be a patron of a group which exists to change it? Even the ABC with his great intelligence expects people to believe that he can support two positions at the same time, holding his personal beliefs but upholding Lambeth etc. Is it any surprise that the CofE has such a… Read more »

Andrew Brown
Guest

There is a particular difficulty for the C of E, though, in that no one on either side believes in all of its official positions. If you think the Church is bound by the Lambeth resolutions, then it is also bound to listen carefully to gays and Lesbians, which may even involve talking to them. and being persuaded by them, or talking to people who do talk to them, or, if that’s too horrible, talking to people who have talked, once to someone who was at school with a gay man — etc. Obviously, the “Global South” is not going… Read more »

Ordinand
Guest
Ordinand

I must say, a most interesting article about Esther Mombo. I have just tried the Google search that the article referred to and I came up with interesting results. The ‘Men seeking Men Kenya’ search came up with 10.900.000 hits!, but already hit number three or four seemed to be irrelevant and around hit ten I ended up in Scotland! A “Men seeking Men Kenya” gave nothing at all and a “Men seeking Men in Kenya” search came back with 8 hits. This is a very interesting piece of spin from the CA activists and worrying signs regarding the quality… Read more »

Andrew Carey
Guest
Andrew Carey

It ought to be pointed out that Ruth Gledhill has gone a bit overboard in saying that +Gladwin and his group have been abandoned in Kenya. In fact, the programme of activities for the curates is continuing, so it is only the Bishop’s role which is affected by Nzimbi’s ruling. It is either naive or perfidious in the extreme for Bishop Gladwin, having taken up patronage of Changing Attitude, to go immediately to Kenya and expect all to be sweetness and light. Depending on your viewpoint rightly or wrongly, Kenya has already broken links with ECUSA, refused grants and money… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

So it’s a page out of the Nigerian Book?

Kill the messenger.

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

But that is tantamount to saying that no-one can be part of the Church of England unless they are prepared to go along with the majority view – which of course means change will never happen.

This is actually the conservative agenda in any case, I simply wish people would all be a bit more honest.

Nersen Pillay
Guest
Nersen Pillay

Spot the difference:

a) believing something and having a respectful dialogue with others who disagree;

b) saying you believe something but also agreeing with those who completely contradict what you say you uphold.

The first option is a reasonable position. The second is daft, if not deceitful.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Spot the difference: (1) Lambeth resolutions are advisory, and offered to the rest of the worldwide communion as consensus of that particular decade’s Lambeth meeting; (2) Lambeth resolutions are legislation, and represent the conformed position of all Anglicans believers worldwide, and can be prosecuted as such. That is the Anglican definitional dilemma, which is finally a power dilemma. Queer life is just the easiest of the available wedge topics, because worldwide consensus is still negative enough to exploit rather nicely. If you wish to get a room full of conservative believers together, you can talk about the awful queer folks,… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Merseymike has hit the nail on the head. There is no mechanism for the alternative in hardened dioceses of the absolutist homophobic extreme, and they freely create an alternative communion within offending inclusive dioceses. In moderate dioceses, cohabitation would possible, but the absolutists agenda is to “rescue” these dioceses from their sinful theological interpretations, and they protect themselves from corruption by forming an alternative communion until their prayers for absolutist reform are answered. It reminds me of the Nuclear Disarmanent Party in Australia in the 1980s, when an organised group of souls nearly hijacked the whole party because they were… Read more »

Marshall Scott
Guest

With all due respect, Nersen, even the former will be seen in the worst possible light by those at extremes. Here in the American context the American Civil Liberties Union (the dreaded ACLU) is regularly reviled by extreme political conservatives as “dangerously radical” despite the fact that through their history they have militantly represented people from across the spectrum. Failing to refuse to talk to “those wrong people” is seen as bias toward “those wrong people.” That said, Bishop Gladwin’s timing seems inept. One could argue that perhaps he shouldn’t have gone himself to avoid muddying the purpose of the… Read more »

J. C. Fisher
Guest

“How is it possible to simultaneously claim to be committed to upholding the teaching of the church and at the same time be a patron of a group which exists to change it?” In the same way one can be a pacifist, AND a military chaplain? I have no idea what +Chelmsford’s “opinions on The Issue” are. But it seems to be that being a “patron” to any Christian organization, is essentially a *pastoral position*. For any group of Christians, one may have differences of opinion—maybe w/ ALL their opinions. …but that doesn’t mean any group of Christians should be… Read more »

John D
Guest
John D

To comment with J C Fisher:

It is absurd to suggest that a bishop cannot uphold the rules of the church(teaching stretches the point) while still providing pastoral, or even political, support for a position not currently in favor. The Kenyans have behaved horribly; why blame the victim?

Nersen Pillay
Guest
Nersen Pillay

Please note, I have not expressed any hardline view or prejudice against any group…..one or two responses have made some assumptions and revealed their prejudices. Integrity matters a lot, obviously, and the public soon lose respect for double-minded positions even if some Anglicans love their “fudge” and semantics. • What would you have thought of Robin Cook if he was against the Iraq war but stayed in his government job? • Would it have strengthened or weakened his case if Wilberforce was a slave-owner while he campaigned against slavery? There is integrity in campaigning against and official position but none… Read more »

Bob S
Guest
Bob S

As a somewhat progressive Christian I differ from the others in my parish on some of the creedal rhetoric. That said, we all know that we don’t agree on some of the particulars but we still we are a vibrant, loving community. We focus the example Christ gave us and work to build the Kingdom of God. The world is never going to agree on everything so we should focus on what we agree on, something we have in common. People are dying in Darfur and other places. It seems to me that our attention is better focused on those… Read more »