Thinking Anglicans

Chew responds to Ndungane

Global South Anglican has published Some points of clarification on the Kigali Meeting and Communique – Archbishop John Chew:

In light of the 24 September 2006 Statement on the Global South “Kigali” Communique by the Archbishop Njongongkulu Ndungane, the Primate of the Anglican Church of Southern Africa, it is necessary to make the following clarifications:

1. “Whereas Canon Livingstone Ngewu and I were present in Kigali, neither of us were made aware even of the possibility of a communique in the name of the Primates of the Global South, prior to its release.”

The draft Agenda clearly stating the item and intent was sent out earlier to the Primates who have indicated their participation at the Kigali Meeting. At the 1st Session after the Opening Address by the Chairman, the draft Agenda was presented and, with some amendments, were agreed by all present. The 1st Reading of the draft Communique was put backward from the evening of the 2nd day to the afternoon session of the 3rd day. Furthermore, a Communique drafting committee chaired by the Archbishop Bernard Ntahoturi of Burundi was unanimously appointed. Both Archbishop Ndungane and Canon Ngewu were present throughout the time these decisions were made.

2. “I am surprised that we allow our agenda to be so dominated and driven by an inordinate influence from the United States. ……… It is hard to understand why we continue to act in response to the North to such a great extent, rather than making use of our freedom to concentrate our energies on the priorities of our own people and Provinces.”

Careful reading of the Agenda and the Kigali Communique will clearly show that discussions on and responses to the so-called matters of the United States or the ‘North’ took up only a very small portion of time of the whole Meeting. Archbishop Ndungane left immediately after the 1st Session of the Meeting on “Update of the previous two Global South Primates Steering Committee Meetings” on Wednesday morning (20th September). He would have been very encouraged and his sentiments dispelled if he had stayed throughout the Meeting.

The recently formed Theological Formation and Education Task Force (co-ordinated by Revd Dr Michael Poon with a Primate, a Bishop and two clergy seminary theologians) and Economic Empowerment Track (co-ordinated by Mr Keith Chua with mainly senior laity and some Bishops and clergy) met in parallel and intense consultations during the Meeting. Both tracks made quality presentations and recommendations for adoption. Their practical and prompt implementations were urged. The importance of these two tracks for the development and maturity of the Global South Provinces could not be over-emphasised. These were mandated when some 20 Global South Provinces (each represented by the Primate, Bishop, Clergy and Laity including Youth) met at the “Red Sea Encounter” in Egypt last October.

3. “To me, at least, it appears in places that there is a hidden agenda, to which some of us are not privy… there seems to be a deliberate intention toundermine the due processes of the Anglican Communion and the integrity of the Instruments of Unity, …”

The consistent and public stand of the majority of the Global South Provinces in relation to the crisis provoked by the actions and resolutions of the ECUSA and Canadian Anglican Church is openly known and clearly expressed in the various Statements or Communiques on these matters since late 2003. These are all in the public domain for all who wish to read or have access to them.

The Most Revd Dr John Chew
Hon Secretary, Global South Provinces in the Anglican Communion
25th September 2006

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Göran Koch-SwahneCheryl CloughRMFlaurence robertsDavid Rowett (= mynsterpreost) Recent comment authors
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Cheryl Clough
Guest

So basically, “we are what we are and if you interact with us that means you accept what we are”. They have defined their boundaries. That is good. Now the question is what are the implications of interacting with them and does that automatically confer full consent or agreement with their actions? If I work in the same workplace as a known bully, does that I mean that I agree with all their ethics and position? And if I refuse to work with them, would that make me guilty of being unfairly discriminatory? Then if they are clever, and do… Read more »

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

Phew ! That’s alright then !…

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Now, this is a very interesting piece and Cheryl is spot on as usual.

I’ll be back after a bit of close-reading ;=)

Tunde
Guest
Tunde

THANK YOU ++John Chew for the clarification.

1. points out that it is untrue someone did not know there would be a communiqué
2. shows allegation of domination is untrue and unfair
3. testifies that nothing was hidden as incorrectly implied

But then he supports us, so we ignore these untruths which we wrongly attributed to other Primates (and written volumes about how unchristian! ) LORD HAVE MERCY! Will others comment?

NP
Guest
NP

Why is ECUSA being coerced into sticking with all these very different people.

ECUSA – be brave, start “TEC Worldwide” and let Ndugane join – he won’t bring many African people with him but that’s ok – its not about nos and all this fighting is very negative and tiring so please, ECUSA, get on with the only path that makes sense!

ahauber
Guest
ahauber

Cheryl, I think you missed Dr. Chew’s points. He’s not talking about ‘grey areas’ where we can work things out to accomodate each other. He is countering Mr. Ndugnane’s misleading statements. The preliminary draft of the communique was probably written by a committee, as is common practice in large meetings like this. But Ndugnane was trying to mislead us by omitting the fact that he was present in the meeting where it was discussed and ammended. He also tried to mislead us by implying that nothing else was talked about, when in reality, he was only there for the first… Read more »

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
Guest
David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

” He would have been very encouraged and his sentiments dispelled if he had stayed throughout the Meeting.”

I’m sure he would….

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
Guest
David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

So I have to choose between believing the words of someone who – to the best of my knowledge – has never spoken duplicitously, misrepresented signatories etc etc and the spokesperson for a group which has demonstrably done so in the past.

Do I get the impression that the chief architects of the GS secession are rattled?

bls
Guest

“Could it be that Mr. Ndugnane and Mr. Tutu are more interested in using the Church for political and social reform then in the spiritual rebirth and growth in their members, as is the case in so many churches here in America?” I presume you mean trying to get the Church to recognize the damage it does, and has done, to gay people everywhere? And that the Church itself spends much of its time actively preventing its own gay members from ever coming near “spiritual rebirth and growth”? Or were you referring only to the usual majority, who after all… Read more »

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
Guest
David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

“Could it be that Mr. Ndugnane and Mr. Tutu are more interested in using the Church for political and social reform then in the spiritual rebirth and growth in their members,” Without resorting to the game wherein the first person to use the word ‘Hitler’ is the loser, I would point out that this is a chilling argument, implying that issues of reform and justice are some how optional extras to the Gospel, an argument which has been deployed in the past by some very unsavoury people, Margaret Thatcher among them. Archbishop Desmond did comment once that he was unsure… Read more »

Chris
Guest

It strikes me that all that Dr Chew actually achieves here is to demonstrate that what was thought to be a hidden agenda is actually “consistent and public”.

Terry
Guest
Terry

I think ++Chew in point 1 is simply saying that the fact that a communique will be released is made aware to all, before the Meeting and during the opening session, where ++Ndugnane was present. We need not conclude that either one must be lying. It is possible that ++Ndugnane did not pay attention when these discussions were made or that he did not realise that the Communique will be released with the Provinces represented (or present) mentioned. I am giving the benefit of a doubt to the Primate of SA here. Even then, one should be careful about making… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

First of all, it seems to me that the archbishop wasn’t talking about the agenda of the meeting itself, but of the Global South as a whole. That is to say that they have rallied around their opposition to “the gay issue” and their energy is being fuelled by certain conservative Americans with whom they have made common cause over this. Of course they are concerned about other things than this, but it is this issue that they are most public about, and, while their American comrades might not be dictating this part of the agenda, they are certainly giving… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Andy Thank you for your posting. I want to thank people such as yourself who document that this modus operandi is normal and routine in certain circles, and that we should not be surprised at such tactics. Such statements do more to substantiate my concerns than any number or length of postings by myself could ever achieve. The comment about spiritual rebirth demonstrates my concern of a schizophrenic mindset – that somehow our relationship with God is divorced from our relationship with this world. We are born to this world to work in this world and we are responsible for… Read more »

RMF
Guest
RMF

On nearly any issue of interest or even of noninterest, the Church in South Africa is far more reliable and trustworthy than any “Global” south press release. Of course I must also add that practically anyone besides Tunde of Nigeria is more trustworthy. His lies, half truths, and other fabrications are well documented here. Since he is responsible for maintaining and promulgating many “Global” south releases and such they have about as much authority as his other fabrications. I’m sure it won’t be long before we see as with the other “Global” south “release” that many disowned after having their… Read more »

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
Guest
David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

There are holes in this statement. For example the suggestion is that ++ Cape Town would have been able to support the communique had he stayed through the meeting, whereas the fact that ++CT repudiates the dratted thing rather suggests that this is wishful thinking and smoke. And (in the words of Cicero) “cui bono?” What reason would there be for ++Cape Town to issue a statement which said that the communique was not agreed when there’s enough cause for outrage in the indisputable fact that said communique was presented as having ++CT’s support? There is, I put it to… Read more »

Nick Finke
Guest
Nick Finke

If you look back at the communique it never says that Southern Africa approved the document, merely that the province was represented at the meeting. It does, of course, give the impression that all present approved the document and commentators worldwide have cited it as a statement representing the opinion of more than half the provinces in the Communion, but it doesn’t actually say that all approved it. It is rather carefully drafted. With respect to the comments made about the support of ++Tutu and ++Ndugnane for social action, I think it instructive that Our Lord is reported as having… Read more »

David Huff
Guest
David Huff

David R. wrote, “They’ll be stabbing one another in the front next.” Indeed. The first thing I thought when I read ++Chew’s missive was, “Good Lord, these people would turn on each other in a heartbeat.” But groups who obsess over “orthodoxy” and purity inevitably do… And Andy ? To suggest that ++Ndugnane and ++Tutu are not interested in spiritual rebirth implies an astounding lack of knowledge on your part of their lives and work. Bp. Tutu recently spoke at our parish, and I have never in my adult life been so moved by the presence of God in someone.… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

After last year’s November meeting by the Red Sea, a Communiqué was made public with the attached names of 17 Primates, several of whom later stated that they had not had anything to do with it and had not seen it since (very briefly) in the first session. As to this year’s Communiqué, issued with a list of 20 Provinces, we do not actually know that anybody signed it, not even whoever wrote it. But I detect 5 Americanisms in the spelling ;=) 80% of this years Communiqué is not about the South, but about Network issues, the rest is… Read more »

bls
Guest

Cheryl, do you really not recognize that the few websites like this one are just about the only places in the “Christian” world we would even be having this discussion? If so, I have to say I think you’re living in a dreamworld. Gay clergy in every denomination are still subject to witchhunts; we have a friend this is happening to now, in one of the supposedly more “liberal” denominations. TEC is condemned the world over for what it is saying and doing. And need I remind you that the Archbishop of Canterbury – supposedly one of our great “friends”… Read more »

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

A year ago Fr.Jake posted a reflection on Fundamentalism, with a quotation from Dr. Martin E Marty’s opus. Professor Marty is a savvy Church historian from the University of Chicago. His description of Fundamentalism, and his colleague’s, aptly characterizes the actions and aspirations of the African primates and their Network allies. To quote: At the outset of their monumental six-volume Fudamentalist Project, Martin E. Marty and R. Scott Appleby argue that the “fundamentalisms” all follow a certain pattern. They are embattled forms of spirituality, which have emerged as a response to a perceived crisis. They are engaged in a conflict… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Nick. God bless you for your comment “… personal holiness or spiritual rebirth, but rather about action taken to help those in need.” BLS, yes I am aware that at this time this is one of the few sites that such kind of dialogue can happen. Do I live in a dream world? Yes, because I accept “coincidences” as evidence of support from God, especially when they correlate with dreams or correspondence. Not just one or two, but a plethora. For those who say I should not do this, I then question whether they really believe in God, because they… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

I was thinking about BLS’s comment about this being one of the few websites that we could be having this kind of discussion. Is BLS aware that part of that is coming from censorship? For example I was shut out of one Anglican forum with this as part of the explanation “While I am prepared to reinstate your account if you can tell me honestly you will stay within the boundaries we have discussed and not post about the connection between God/the bible and world events, anything that may be considered prophetic, the battle between God & Satan etc, I… Read more »

Christopher Calderhead
Guest
Christopher Calderhead

A gracious man would have apologized for giving the impression that the joint communiqué was signed by all those named.

Archbishop Chew ignores most of what the Archbishop of Cape Town had to say, and says his South African colleague had trouble reading the published agenda for the meeting. (The fact that Ndungane speaks in well-wrought prose while Chew speaks in bullet points might indicate who’s the subtler thinker)

NP
Guest
NP

basically – most of the evangelicals left the old Anglican church in South Africa a century ago and formed CESA which has grown very strongly indeed……so the Anglican church of TUTU et al has always been liberal-dominated and is very different to the 99% of the Global South’s Anglican churches – also in its lack of growth in South Africa! so, none of this is surprising with regard to Tutu et al….the problem “liberals” have is that “evangelicals” are not going to leave the AC and leave it to be dominated by “liberals” – there really is no need to… Read more »

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

VERY well said bls. We are much safer outside…But its the twofaced-ness and lies, I found most unbearable when I was in ‘working for’ the Church of England. And one memorable day when my partner, his 99 year old grandmother and I were threatened with being thrown out of home and job, by a liberal ecumenical body (SLIM). I haveoften wondered if her sudden mental deterioration and death was brought on by the stress of it all, on us. The relatively genteel and very comlacent language used by these anti-gay, anti-lgbt Church spokes-men ( men’s voices are heard, not those… Read more »

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

‘Is BLS aware that part of that is coming from censorship? For example I was shut out of one Anglican forum.’ (Cheryl) This is very true Cheryl. I was thrown off — of all things–the National Secular Society email group, for having the temerity to challenge the anti-gay tone, which hinted darkly at the old ‘gays as paedophiles’ put down, for laughs. I was shocked to expelled — and am now much the wiser. I have learnt so much by being gay. I can’t bear (sic) dogmatism and intolerance — whereever it is to be found. On the other hand… Read more »

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

Thanks for your testimony to your experience Cheryl. I think these kinds of things tend to happen where people open themselves, are in earnest or in depth, have great love / concern or where a situation is precarious -and therefore ‘in need of prayer’. A lot of this is seen in psychotherapy, analysis and that side of human caring and exploring. CG Jung called it ‘synchronicity’ and often people can accept something, if it has a discrete name. I also like the word ‘serendipity’ a lot. Especially, as the word ‘seren’ means ‘a star’ in the ancient language of Britain… Read more »

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
Guest
David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

” most of the evangelicals left the old Anglican church in South Africa a century ago and formed CESA which has grown very strongly indeed” for many of us there is something of a cloud over CESA, despite its denials of complicity in apartheid. People like Colin Craston (http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/news/2005/20051118craston.cfm?doc=61) have worrying observations to make about CESA in the present. St Paul’s PRetoria website (http://www.stpauls.org.za/) says “Because we are a Bible believing Church, our main reason for existence is to teach the Bible” — a strange priority. Once again, I maintain that growth may not always be a sign that things… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“what about ‘Q’ ? !”

Did I say anything about Q?

I thought I said that until the Signatures are produced for everyone to see, the Kigali Commmuniqué is not worth the paper it is written on.

Or did’t I 🙁

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Laurence I was sorry to hear of your personal story, but not surprised. I watched one church leader’s wife trying to charm my twelve year old daughter late last year. We were both bemused as she has been one of the people who has been most antagonistic. We later realised that she was trying to score “points” over a faux pas my daughter had made with her son at school a few days earlier. Unknown to the woman, my daughter had confessed that same evening, and I had told her that she was unwise but that it was so out… Read more »

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

Sorry –I enjoyed your deft textual analysis of Kigali–and was having a leg-pull ! …sorry bout that ….

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

By all means don’t! I just didn’t get the reference. E-mail me if there is anything!

laurence roberts
Guest
laurence roberts

Thanks Cheryl. Yes, these attitudes and actions no longer surprise us old hands–but do grieve us.

Thanks for sharing that about your daughter. Children seem to combine such wisdom and vulnerability.

RMF
Guest
RMF

Yes, Goran: very fine analysis of the Kigali press release.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Goran

I liked your piece too, and you have been doing some excellent postings in the last few months (feeling guilty that I hadn’t acknowledged you).

Also, to all of those who embrace dialogue (including Dave who I miss funnily enough) thanks for bringing robust discussion into a public forum.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Now seriously, I have been in and out of board rooms for some 35 years. I know how to read these things – and I know what sociopaths are wont to do, when they think no one is paying attention.

;=)