Thinking Anglicans

big weekend in Virginia

Updated 13 December

See earlier reports here and here.

The Richmond Times Dispatch has Episcopal churches may split and the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star has Will Neck church.

Truro Church’s Mary Springmann has a letter on the church’s website Why CANA? Convocation of Anglicans in North America (PDF file).

Jim Naughton contests the truth of the claims made in that letter in Another dubious claim from Truro. TA’s August report on the 2004 events that Jim mentions is here.

Mark Harris considers that Truro’s Vestry has gone round the bend.

BabyBlue (Mary Ailes) has published a photograph of the letter she got yesterday from Bishop Peter Lee. (You might need to click on it to show it full size.) Mary is unhappy about the letter.

The media have been given this instruction. (PDF file).

The Living Church added a report: National Church May ‘Retain Interest’ in Virginia Church Properties.

A statement from the Rt. Rev. Peter James Lee, Bishop of the Diocese of Virginia

The following reports are delayed as the site was unreachable for me for several days:
Washington Times Julia Duin
8 Dec Virginia churches stuck in middle
12 Dec Episcopal Church sees first defection

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drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Hmm all the new conservative definitional/presuppositional hoo-ha continues unabated I see. Is there actually any other respected new conservative hermeneutic on the Anglican right? Given the published media preparations, one suspects that the anticipated target audience for these activities is hardly the rest of us who remain in TEC. Who else? My guess for now would be: (1) other parishes whom Truro & friends may hope would soon join them in CANA, plus maybe (2) ABN Akinola/Nigeria, plus maybe (3) whomever else is funding or promising to fund CANA during its transition to becoming the Anglican Communion in North America.… Read more »

John Robison
14 years ago

Okay, let me ask this:

Where do they get the power to do what they are planning?
Where dose a Vestry, or a parish for that matter, derive the power to separate and take property?
Am I to understand that their, specious, theological issues with Bishop Lee empower them to violate the cannons?

StAndTheolStud
StAndTheolStud
14 years ago

I am a student in Scotland and a member of Truro, in fact, my Father is one of the clergy there. The real issue which I think my parish has with Bishop Lee is this: before GC 2003 he promised to vote no on legislation allowing expoloration of same sex blessing. This was his agreement as a ‘middle of the road’ bishop, he may not have agreed, but would sacrifice for the sake of unity. However, when the legislation for same sex blessing was voted down, bishop Lee quickly rewrote it in a more acceptable form to the committee, and… Read more »

Alan Marsh
Alan Marsh
14 years ago

The Bishop’s letter seems perfectly reasonable. Yes to Windsor, No to gay blessings. What more does Minns want?

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“What more does Minns want?” Marsh It would be hard to count the ways in which Nigerian Bishops Minns and Akinola wish to further damage/harm fellow Christians, Muslims, and *others* and U.S./Nigerian Citizens of all denominations while advancing their backward and “twisted” religious “mission” of hate against their LGBT brothers and sisters. The campaign promoting the demoralization, damnation, loathing, exclusion and jailing of/against LGBT people and/or our/their family members at the Anglican Church of Nigeria is a record of SHAME. Akinola ought have his U.S. Visa cancelled by the Department of State along with all the other undesirable foreign extremists.… Read more »

StAndTheolStud
StAndTheolStud
14 years ago

Ricardo, this is what I am talking about. I was told by the conservative leadership in the AC (not just in ECUSA) at a conference some years ago that for us, such polemics are not allowed. I was in a focus group on pluralism in the Church, and I said something like ‘why do we care what they say, can’t we just kick them out?’ I realize now that I was wrong, and I was corrected by other in EFAC (the evangelical fellowship in the anglican communion) that such arguments are ‘bad faith’ arguments. In other words, to call one… Read more »

Marshall Scott
14 years ago

Not that long ago I watched from outside the discernment process and congregational vote at Christ Church, Overland Park, Kansas, the first large congregation to receive attention in current divisions. The vote is, I imagine, a forgone conclusion. That’s not a matter of manipulation, as much as it of the fact that the stances taken by clergy and leadership at Truro Church and The Falls Church are not suddenly new. Whatever the makeup of those congregations when those leaders took their positions, since they took leadership they have followed a consistent pattern. Those who did not hear Christ in those… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
14 years ago

” … before GC 2003 he promised to vote no on legislation allowing exploration of same sex blessing. … However, when the legislation for same sex blessing was voted down, bishop Lee quickly rewrote it in a more acceptable form to the committee, and it was his form which was accepted.” As usual from Truro, either ignorance or wilful distortion. The resolution that Bp Lee helped craft on same sex blessings simply stated that these occur in some dioceses. It was a statement of fact. It did not endorse same sex blessings. IT DID NOT ENDORSE SAME SEX BLESSINGS. Read… Read more »

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Well it would be a whole lot easier to see the nothing but good faith being lived out in Truro and other conservative Anglican or TEC places if their efforts to live their better conscience did not always result in: (1) conservatives having to express their innate legacy call to first-rate citizenship in God’s kingdom by reminding the rest of us that we are left out of that call, because we believe differently in some areas? (2) conservatives trying to use our provincial family resources to acquire some new power over us, against us, which we are prohibited from owning… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

What, pray, is ”legislation allowing exploration”? And what is this “promise to the diocese”? How and when and in what form and circumstances was such a thing made – or was it? Might this be just an other “protocol” claim? And by the way StAndTheolStud, telling the truth truthfully is never an ad hominem attack. On the contrary, being “nice” in the face of oppression is immoral (Lutheran principle of in statu confessioni). And no, “belief” and “expression” are not the same thing, but two different categories. If one cannot “express” ones “belief” in a civilised and lawful manner before… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

People to be interviewed at Truro is to be selected by the Parish Leadership!

Propaganda Ministry.

J. C. Fisher
J. C. Fisher
14 years ago

This is helpful, StAndTheolStud. But I ask you, if “to hold that some behaviors are sinful is NOT the same as hate-mongering or intolerance.” but also “Conservatives perhaps need to acknowledge that they might be wrong about same-sex relationships” then why are ONLY the “behaviors” of intimacy within same-sex relationships held under such judgment? Why are the behaviors of those who dehumanize, discriminate and make schism against LGBT Christians (and their allies) NEVER held (or even feared) to be sinful? Until we can submit ALL our behaviors to the Mercy of God (and not just those which can be conveniently… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“In the spirit of openness and inclusion that are the hallmarks of The Episcopal Church, my fervent prayers this day embrace all who will bear the weight and consequences of these decisions.” Bishop Lee of Virginia There you have it folks. Emotionally and spiritually mature Christian adults will make moral decisions today/these next days that they must also be responsible for afterward…it’s time to take responsiblity for the REAL outcomes of discrimination in front of God and one another as we finish with a season of pretend…OUR LGBT brothers and sisters are not “abominations” and “outcasts” to be excluded from… Read more »

jk
jk
14 years ago

In answer to J. C. Fisher’s question – because the behavour you use as an example is specifically prohibited in Scripture. It is the stand of the LGBT agenda that is promoting Schism, not those who are upholding the teaching of Christ and the Apostles.

laurence
laurence
14 years ago

Thanks Leonardo. The bishop has really, really bent over backwards to help all.

mteddymak
mteddymak
14 years ago

I have recommended this page to my orthodox friends. After 40 years of this kind abuse from the left, we are finally moving into safer waters, thaks be to God. My purpose in the recommendations is to remind other orthodox Anglicans of the futility of raprochement with the Loon Left. One reading of the vituperative postings above ought to do it. They have all of the grace and gentleness of a Bengal Tiger selecting a peasant for tea. Not to share it. To be it. None the less, we will continue pray for their conversion to Christianity. Talk about your… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“My purpose in the recommendations is to remind other orthodox Anglicans of the futility of raprochement with the Loon Left.” mteddymak

What “orthodox Anglicans” are you speaking of? All you wrote was a puritianical rant and invitation for more meanspirited anger/hate that you spewed against other Christians.

Your Tea ain’t so hot or soothing either and as a matter of fact, it’s bitter, cold and stale!

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
14 years ago

“Loon Left” – not exactly conciliating language, is it? And it excludes the possibility that – as I believe is the case – a great many Anglicans and Episcopalians occupy the center, and are not persuaded by the claims of the very conservative voices of Truro etc. Of course, to some, truthtelling is seen as attacking, just as the young person from Truro could only see threats in Bishop Lee’s communication pointing out the possible consequences for Truro and The Falls Church should they attempt to take property which is not theirs if they vote to leave TEC. I have… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

“the Loon Left”

Rather than rise to this bait, one should remember that in “the land of liberty”, an equitable health care system is denigrated and referred to as ‘socialist medicine’.

J. C. Fisher
J. C. Fisher
14 years ago

“None the less, we will continue pray for their conversion to Christianity.”

Back atcha, mteddymak. I pray that, in God’s Good Time, you finally “see Christ in the least of” your brothers and sisters.

StAndTheolStud
StAndTheolStud
14 years ago

I really must respond to Cynthia Gilliatt’s claiming that I associate truth telling and attacking. This is not so simplistic. The reason I see threats in Bishop Lee’s letter is that they are threats. This is not some impersonal machinery which will take the property which is, after all, only used by Truro chuch, and for most of the four hundred years of it’s history did in fact belong to the parish, it is Bishop Lee who will set these things in motion, and he is not compelled to. He has approved the procedure set forward by a special committee… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
14 years ago

“it is Bishop Lee who will set these things in motion, and he is not compelled to.” In fact he is obeying the canons of the church. Fact. “He has approved the procedure set forward by a special committee of the Diocese “ Again, that report was received by the Standing Committee and the Executive Board, not approved. Fact. “Further, Lee’s letter constitutes a threat because of the manor in which it was put, not a private recommendation, a helpful reminder in a private letter, but an immediately public one” And Truro and the Falls Church have NOT made this… Read more »

Shawn+
Shawn+
14 years ago

StAndTheolStud:

Thank you for your clarification of ++Akinola’s advocating a lesser punishment of homosexuality than death. He must have got it from Christ’s teaching of “sorta” love one another. If this is the Christian Gospel, then I really am a lousy Christian–here I’ve been preaching the unconditional loving of one another when I should follow ++Akinola’s modifying the example of the love of Christ on the Cross and only love one another to a point.

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

StAndTheolStud wrote: ”He [Bishop Lee] has approved the procedure set forward by a special committee of the Diocese for parishes wishing to leave the church, to then suggest that after Truro has followed proper procedure as outlined it will still not just have the use of this property under threat but ALSO, this is the important bit, will possibly have legislation brought against individuals by the diocese is undoubtedly a threat.” Here we have this “Protocol” thing again… I dare say, that if there is indeed such a piece of protocol, a “proper procedure” approved by both parties – the… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
14 years ago

StAndTheolStud – you should read the lead item about Nigeria and the proposed legislation that heads Thinking Anglicans. A better source on the law and its implications than you have cited. I guess it IS better than lining up all gays and lesbians and shooting them, so, very worthy of ++Akinola’s support, eh? And I suppose +Martyn’s. Disgusting.

Julie
14 years ago

Excuse me, I am looking for the Thinking Anglicans as advertised in the URL?

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