Thinking Anglicans

primates meeting: Saturday reports

The New York Times has Inviting Africa’s Anglicans to Gather Under a Bigger Tent by Sharon LaFraniere. It is an interview with Njongonkulu Ndungane.

This Reuters report appeared in the Canadian National Post Anglican split goes far deeper than gay dispute.

ENS had TANZANIA: Central Tanganyika bishop questions legitimacy of singling out the Episcopal Church.

And a report by Pat Ashworth last week Ardour v. order on both sides also dealt with the forthcoming primates meeting.

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Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“Christians in Africa focus more on the Old Testament with its plagues, visions and healings watched over by a stern and demanding God. “That corresponds more to the world they live in,” Reuters/Canada I don’t know about that. President Bush is capable of bringing his “stern” NEW God to Africa with his NEW “vision” for Nigerian democracy/war against terrorists which will match up nicely with the greedy/corrupt Nigerian everyday way right under the nose of their “stern” God. Bishop Akinola will have a hard time marketing, selling and exporting his kind of broad seat-of-the-pantalones old “abomination” ignorance about LGBT Christians/Muslim… Read more »

matthew hunt
matthew hunt
14 years ago

I wish that headline was ‘Ardour v. order = ordure’

I should have worked for The Sun.

Doug Taylor-Weiss
14 years ago

As a simple measure of how unbelievably ignorant are Philip Jenkins’ reported comments in the “Split Goes Deeper” piece above, take the little line about exorcizing demons. If I didn’t read the Bible myself, I’d think that such activities were entirely confined to that Old Testament with its nasty, mean God. Of course, as those who read the Bible know, all exorcizing is found in the Gospels, not in the OT. Oh, and who said “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels”? Someone from the Old Testament, you say? Wrong again.… Read more »

JCF
JCF
14 years ago

“Robert Tong [“from Sydney diocese”] described the Episcopal Church in the United States as the “sick man of the Anglican Communion”. He found parallels in the situation with Harold Macmillan’s declaration in his “wind of change” speech in South Africa in 1960: “It is our earnest desire to give South Africa our support and encouragement, though frankly there are some aspects in your polity which make it impossible for us to do this without being false to our deep conviction [on apartheid].””

What an execrable comparison (Apartheid South Africa, to Inclusive TEC). What abominable poppycock. >:-/

Lord have mercy!

Merseymike
Merseymike
14 years ago

No, Doug, its because their outlook and world view remains premodern, so they still believe in that which is clearly delusionary

Why all this pussyfooting about? The Nigerian Church is no better than a cult.

Harvard Man
Harvard Man
14 years ago

Doug, Your comments are so on the mark. Thank you for pointing out that the African Anglicans are not prehistoric relics with simplistic readings of the Old Testament fueling them. Indeed, loving and thoughtful study of Jesus’ words in the NT are what anchor many of the ‘orthodox’ in Africa and other locales. Leonardo, is it really necessary to say that those who support +Akinola are among the ‘cross burning’ crowd? That’s not befitting a ‘thinking anglican’. If we are going to find a way forward together, name calling is hardly a way to make that happen. There are many… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
14 years ago

I was disappointed by Jenkins analysis that the lines are OT/NT. My experience is that there are many conservatives who perceive the NT as replacing and surpassing the OT and are not interested in biblical hermeneutic consistency with the OT; except where it acts as rubber stamp for their paradigms. That type of conservative seems to be unaware of the biblical God that calls for compassion and mercy, who hates the oppressor, and promises redemption for more than pure human males. Jenkins’ assessment seems to be unaware of liberal theologians who look for hermeneutic consistency with God’s character from the… Read more »

Fr Joseph O'Leary
14 years ago

Yes, reading the New Testament can produce terrible attitudes too. The Church is the one who reads the Bible, and the Church must be sensitive to the gentle leading of the Paraclete Who has yet many things to teach us. Musing on the Tanzanian event, I surmise that in choosing to act as chairman Rowan Williams is handing over to Bp Sentamu the role of representing the Church of England — and thus deflecting the scapegoating of which he himself has been the object. The Global South has been heavily ironic about Rowan Williams, in a childishly ad hominem way… Read more »

John Henry
John Henry
14 years ago

Has Robert Tong become demented? People of sane mind wouldn’t accuse inclusive TEC of being racist, i.e., practising Apartheid. Well, the Bible-fundies have become a sorry lot–cherry-pickers, who judge their brothers and sisters in Christ just for the sake of judging them, disregarding our Lord’s advice not to judge unless we want to be judged ourselves.

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

It’s a political campaign, remember. And it is inspired from German 1920ies theories of Propaganda. Anything will do, if “useful”.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

“Has Robert Tong become demented? “

Think of it as a new version of the ‘nazi’ game: whoever is first reduced to calling an opponent a nazi has probably run out of coherent strategies. ‘Racist’ fulfils much the same function (and other versions of the game have included ‘bourgeois’ ‘patriarchal’ ‘feminist’) and without supporting evidence is just as much the equivalent of a four-year-old shouting, ‘And you smell of wee’ in an attempt to win an argument.

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
14 years ago

“Leonardo, is it really necessary to say that those who support +Akinola are among the ‘cross burning’ crowd? That’s not befitting a ‘thinking anglican’. If we are going to find a way forward together, name calling is hardly a way to make that happen.” Harvard Man Reading is useful! Did you click on the link that I provided that is proof that your pal +Akinola instigates with his hate speech? Before giving me a lecture on religious “tolerance” I suggest you be aware of what Akinola spouts off about! Preaching to me against “innovations” when “abominations” is the word that… Read more »

Harvard Man
Harvard Man
14 years ago

Leonardo,

Ahh…so it is those uneducated rednecks in Texas and the South who are at fault! And in cahoots with an ignorant black man! Funny, who is the racist now?

You would crack me up if I didn’t get the impression you believed in this mean spirited position.

Have you visited any of these congregations, Leonardo? I have, and have seen many loving, bright, (gasp, even east coast Ivy League educated professionals!) trying to sort this all through, gay, straight, sinners all. It may not be what you believe, but it does not justify slingling insults at such congregations.

Neil
Neil
14 years ago

‘Ivy league…and educated’ ?? Huh? No mention was made by Leonardo of black man…and Oxford educated man is confused by your cheap accusations of racism. Come on Mr. America…
Mr. Akinola is ‘wrong’ man whatever his colour!

Simon Sarmiento
14 years ago

Please confine your comments in this thread to the subject of the original article…

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
14 years ago

“ignorant black man” Funny, Harvard Man, but I have never seen +Akinola referred to in this way, nor even seen it implied. Indeed, his intellect and scholarship have never been in doubt. I, for one, have always assumed he has an extensive academic background, and I’m envious of his willingness to argue theologically. Would that “Liberal” bishops had such conviction that they too could make the theological arguments that need to, and can, be made. I’m intrigued as to why you see racism in this. I suspect it’s because you think the evil “Liberals” are only motivated by a desire… Read more »

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