Thinking Anglicans

primates meeting: Monday morning

George Conger reports in the Living Church Divisions Remain as Deadline for Communique Approaches.

Jonathan Petre in the Daily Telegraph thinks Anglican Church on verge of schism.

The New York Times has Archbishop of Canterbury Appears to Chide Faction of Anglicans by Sharon LaFraniere.

The Times has a leader titled Bitter Fudge.

The video of the press conference on Saturday evening is now available here.

The full text of Sunday’s sermon in Zanzibar is now online at the Archbishop of Canterbury’s website.

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badman
badman
13 years ago

It looks as if Akinola will walk – accompanied by nothing like even a majority of the rest of the self styled Global South. It is also certain that the majority of the Anglican Communion will not throw out The Episcopal Church. The US conservatives’ strategy of disengagement from The Episcopal Church depended on reconnection with the Anglican Communion through Nigeria and like minded provinces. If those provinces themselves leave the Anglican Communion, the strategy falls apart. Bishop Martyn Minns is the one to watch here. He is a smart operator and his alliance with Nigeria is only tactical. I… Read more »

badman
badman
13 years ago

The Archbishop of Canterbury’s sermon at Zanzibar Cathedral on Sunday can be read at http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/sermons_speeches/070218.htm

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
13 years ago

The Times front-page article on the Catholic question is also worth reading.

NP
NP
13 years ago

badman is right – none of this will matter in a hundred years given the rate of decline in “liberal” churches we have seen for decades

Walsingham
Walsingham
13 years ago

I have to note that I find the headlines regarding the Primates’ Meeting to be tiresomely consistent in that they are blatantly stirring the pot. The Telegraph’s is a perfect example. Here we have all but one of the primates participating in the Eucharist service, and even if some did not receive Communion, that is 1) not the end of the world, let alone the Anglican Communion (perfectly OK to skip Communion if they weren’t entirely reconciled) and 2) still a distinct improvement over Dromantine, when 14 refused. Yet if the Telegraph and others are to be believed, major schism… Read more »

pete
pete
13 years ago

“Bishop Martyn Minns is the one to watch here. He is a smart operator and his alliance with Nigeria is only tactical. I predict that he will be part of a US accommodation, whereby liberals and conservatives live together, but keeping distance from each other, probably with some kind of primatial vicar oversight such as Bishop Schori has already offered.” Don’t count on it. The days of offering these so-called conservatives (more appropriately, anarchists) any kind of deal is over. Individual lay people who want to leave TEC and go somewhere else should do so…quickly, please! Clergy who cannot in… Read more »

Cynthia
Cynthia
13 years ago

“As part of this, Bishop Minns will become Bishop of a conservative US diocese.”

Unlikely under the present canons and constitution. He is no longer clergy in TEC, having been deposed by Bp Lee. He would have to somehow regain his orders, then be nominated in a diocese needing a coadjutor, elected, and then given consents by the Bishops and Standing Committees of a majority of dioceses [or, depending on timing, obtain consents at General Convention, like +Gene]. A very long shot indeed. He is smart, but he may have been a little too smart this time around.

C.B.
C.B.
13 years ago

badman – We may know shortly. Minns may be able to get back in but I wonder if Duncan who (in his request for APO) and Yates who(in the Washington Post Op Ed) have gone on record as stating that the TEC is apostate – can come back without some sort of retraction.

C.B.

ruidh
ruidh
13 years ago

“The US conservatives’ strategy of disengagement from The Episcopal Church depended on reconnection with the Anglican Communion through Nigeria and like minded provinces. If those provinces themselves leave the Anglican Communion, the strategy falls apart.”

Well, no. The message shifts. “The Anglican Communion has ended and the Global South is the true heir.” Expect to hear it out of the mouths of the Usual Suspects in 3… 2… 1…

David Chillman
David Chillman
13 years ago

“The Anglican Communion has ended and the Global South is the true heir.”

To be closely followed by 50% of the GS Primates saying “Well, I didn’t agree to that.”

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
13 years ago

NP asserted
badman is right – none of this will matter in a hundred years given the rate of decline in “liberal” churches we have seen for decades.

Oh please – is that the only wax cylinder you have in your collection – it’s getting a bit worn out and hissy. We know that the whole of the universe will belong to ConsEv plc within ten years, so why not leave us who are unfitted for survival to our Darwin-appointed fate and go and spread the good news of God’s wrath and condemnation where folk’ll appreciate it and listen?

Cynthia
Cynthia
13 years ago

“Minns may be able to get back in ” – again, I doubt it. I don’t think he’s a try, because what would he say to all of those he has led out of TEC? Now suddenly TEC is no longer apostate? I am not a good predicter of either secular or church politics, but I don’t see how either MInns or Yates could return to TEC unless they went through someone like +Dunkin’ – but they would still all have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do…

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
13 years ago

“the whole of the universe will belong to ConsEv”

So, do I become Buddhist or Zoroastrian?

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
13 years ago

Ford – try Zoroastrian. If everything is ConsEv, would you REALLY want to be ‘one with everything’? :-))

apologies.

drdanfee
drdanfee
13 years ago

Of course we do await the pending near future Communique. However given the shifts that have taken place during Tanzania, pretty much other than was supposed to happen according to the best conservative realignment thinking and envisioning, well what next? Any believer – right or middles or left – who allows a communique to separate them from the love of God in Jesus is looking through an odd lens, maybe. Small wonder that Akinola’s back went into spasm, if that is what happened. Stress contributes. Rest. Rest. Rest. Rest. This, too, shall pass. One rather expects Minns to keep on… Read more »

Steven
Steven
13 years ago

Hi Ford:

I’d go Zoroastrian if I were you. Lots of history and you get to connect with the heritage of the Magi, who were some of the first to understand who Jesus was and worship him.

Steven

Kurt
Kurt
13 years ago

“The days of offering these so-called conservatives (more appropriately, anarchists) any kind of deal is over.”—Pete

Hold it, Pete. I’m a political anarchist, and these conservatives have NOTHING in common with anarchism! If anything, they are far to the right of even the individualist anarchists (“free market” anarchists) that I know. (I, myself, am an anarcho-socialist).

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
13 years ago

The only thing is that the only Zoroastrians who take converts are in North America and are part of the “back to the Gathas” movement in that religion, which seeks to shake off the old traditions of their Parsee (which is their heritage, I think) ancestors and rejuvenate their faith by going back to the Zoroastrian scriptures and leaving out the later Avesta, the Vendidad, the works. Abandonment of tradition for the “pure word” of scripture, now where have I heard that before?

NP
NP
13 years ago

Ford – please never leave JC!
Prov 3:5-7

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
13 years ago

NP, I don’t think you appreciated the fact that what I said was more than half, but not entirely, joking. Frankly, if the Anglican Church were to become entirely Evangelical, that would be proof to me that She is in error. I would have to worship somewhere else. In all honesty, I’d go Orthodox, or perhaps Roman. To be candid, I believe Evangelical doctrine to be in error, while I respect the right of Evangelicals to believe as they do. Evangelical worship not only does nothing for me spiritually, it tends to be a temptation for me to judge, thus… Read more »

NP
NP
13 years ago

From other things you have said, Ford, I don’t think that is true – I could see you as an evo because JC is at the centre of evo faith.

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