Thinking Anglicans

primates meeting: communique on the way

From Anglican Mainstream and repeated at titusonenine:

The final press conference will be addressed by the Archbishops of Tanzania, Canterbury and Australia tonight at 18:45 Tanzania time (GMT 15:45). The Communique is five pages long and will be released with the covenant in time for the press conference. The Communique was presented as a unanimous report by the communique group which included Archbishops John Chew (South East Asia), Ian Ernest (Indian Ocean) and Drexel Gomez (West Indies). Drexel Gomez chaired the discussion of the Communique. The agenda has been completely changed today, the Lambeth Conference will be discussed this afternoon. Jim Rosenthal, the Director of Communications, expects the Primates to be working on the Communique till the last second. There will be a group photo of new Primates at 16:00 Tanzania Time. Jim Rosenthal also referred to the story in today’s Times about the Anglican Communion and Rome. He expressly said that the report was released a week and a half ago and was not leaked. He denied that there was anything new in it.

Times story link. ACNS has now published Clarifications regarding the front page article in The Times, 19 February 2007, on Anglican – Roman Catholic relations.
TA will report separately on this whole story after the Tanzanian meeting is over.

Update
Ruth Gledhill has some hot news here:

…Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori has been elected onto the all-important policy-making Standing Committee…

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Ruth Gledhill
14 years ago

The full report is now up on Anglican Mainstream
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=1285
Jim was not right to say the report was published over a week ago. It has not been published yet because Rome has not yet given the go-ahead for publication.

H. E. Baber
14 years ago

Reunion with Rome??!1? Guess who really gets trashed if conservatives pull this off: WOMEN. A number of dioceses in the Global South, as well as otherwise-conservative dioceses and parishes in the US accept the ordination of women. What happens to women who are priests in these dioceses and parishes if this deal goes through? Here we have it: A STEP FORWARD FOR GAYS, A LEAP BACKWARD FOR WOMENKIND. But who’s surprised? The whole program of linking women’s ordination with gay rights has in effect made it impossible to be an “orthodox” woman in the Episcopal Church. Even if we support… Read more »

David Walker
David Walker
14 years ago

Having just read the Covenant Design Group’s report (and with all the usual provisos about devils in details) I must admit to being pretty upbeat about it.

Everything in it Anglicans (liberal or traditional) should find consonant with their faith and belonging. It sets out the positives in our tradition very clearly. The balance between upholding the autonomy of provincial structures whilst making it clear that none of us can belong to a club entirely on our own terms is nicely held.

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
14 years ago

H. E., You can’t be a woman, a priest, and Orthodox all at the same time anyway. I am a supporter of women’s ordination, and have solidly Incarnational arguments for believing so, but the Orthodox argue differently. I do not deny the priesthood of ordained women, but for a woman to claim to be both a priest, and orthodox is laughable. And “my victimhood is more valid than your victimhood” is a bit much, too. And if you think getting rid of the uppity women isn’t next on AAC’s agenda after they’ve gotten rid of the uppity queers, think again.… Read more »

badman
badman
14 years ago

Thanks to David Walker for this very encouraging indication.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

Harriet, by the time Rome and Anglicanism get their joint act together, the storms of women’s ordination etc etc will be battering the bridges of the Tiber. But I share your concerns.

C.B.
C.B.
14 years ago

Stand Firm is posting that the communique has been delayed because there has not been agreement on it.

C.B.

Raspberry Rabbit
14 years ago

Inclusive Church is saying that they have solid information as to why the press conference is delayed and from their perspective it’s not bad news. I don’t know what that means but I’d thought I’d pass it along. I’ve got pot noodles!

Alex
Alex
14 years ago

Inclusive Church is posting that they have information that the communique will be encouraging to ECUSA.

seeker
seeker
14 years ago

Stand Firm is posting that the communique has been delayed because there has not been agreement on it.

C.B.

That is honest.

They could issue a statement saying, “We all hold different views (on most things, as it happens)”.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

The words from the draft
” ministered with the unfailing use of Christ’s words of institution, and of the elements ordained by him”

look intriguing. Anyone in the know who can explain to this ignoramus why this is included (I assume no-one is using Addai and Mari, after all?)?

bls
bls
14 years ago

Actually, H.E. Baber, it’s the so-called “orthodox” who are “linking” those agendas, nobody else.

Women aren’t being turned away at the doors of churches worldwide, or being told they can’t come in until they are reprogrammed. The ordination of women and gay people is a high-level issue; we’re talking about something far more basic – like being jailed, beaten, or killed for being gay.

How about getting some perspective – and maybe off the anti-gay jag for about 10 minutes?

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

Posters on Standfirm seem somewhat… peeved by +Katharine’s election. I have to say that the messages there would put me off ever joining their number even were I a fully paid up member of the Anglican Taliban.

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

The repeated discussion linking of queer folks issues and womens’ issues continues for several recurring reasons. First off, the people who roundly condemn one in a final and closed manner, also roundly condemn the other. Also final. Also closed. That would link the two sets of issues even if nothing else did. Second, there appear to be deep links of negative, strong emotionality which sound and feel similar in the two sets of issues. The vigorous animus against women as women and the vigorous animus against people who are not straight – well it really sounds and feels familiar in… Read more »

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
14 years ago

“I assume no-one is using Addai and Mari, after all”

First, I didn’t think these anaphora were considered heterodox, though those who used them eventually became so. Second, might this be a reference to the famous “raisin cakes” liturgy of a couple of years ago? One flaky liturgical experiment got turned into the “paganism” of ECUSA.

Maduka
Maduka
14 years ago

No evangelical worth his/her salt wants unity with Rome. I don’t know where this unity with Rome thing comes from. Akinola and the Nigerian Church most definitely do not want to be united with Rome, they would be better off with the Assemblies of God. We have to rid ourselves of the ghost of John Cardinal Newman and face reality: The Anglican Communion is now the worlds largest evangelical denomination. (It may have liberals and nostaligic Anglo-Catholics, but it is very evangelical). From my experience in Nigeria, the Church of Nigeria is as far from Rome as you can get.… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

Thank you Maduka for an interesting and most enlightening posting which explains why Nigeria seems to exist at right-angles to the rest of Anglican reality.

Cheryl Clough
14 years ago

Ruth I am glad to see that you got a “scoop” but disappointed at the vicious poem. That was adding fuel to a fire. I can understand why because many of these people have been very cruel to you, in recent times I have seen people almost publicly gloating that they could lose you your job. But that poem went too far. As someone who has had to run the gauntlet of their provocations for several years, and many hard years of refining before that, I call on you to consider your personal dignity. “Victory is transcending your enemies, not… Read more »

Robin
Robin
14 years ago

mynsterpreost, I would expect the wording about the Eucharist is taken either from the Articles or from the Quadrilateral – I don’t know which, off the top of my head. Sorry, I’m at my day job, and can’t take time to look it up, but perhaps someone else can.

Robin

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
14 years ago

A thought re “the unfailing use of …the elements ordained by him”, Did someone post a few weeks ago that there was a tradition in some parts of the AC of using ‘animal crackers’? And is there any truth in such an allegation?

Robin
Robin
14 years ago

Here’s the link, David (I don’t vouch for the truth of the original assertion):
http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/002060.html
There was also a reference to animal crackers used as a teaching tool in a Lutheran context, but I didn’t explore further.

I did chase down the wording used in the covenant – it’s from the Lambeth (1888) version of the Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral. The Chicago wording is the same as Lambeth for that section (on sacraments), but rather looser for the section on scripture.

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
14 years ago

“they would be better off with the Assemblies of God.” See, Maduka, I grew up in a little, relatively isolated place where we were very low church. Some were mortified when we started singing the Canticles at Matins and Evensong. There were also a lot of fundamentalists in our community. I don’t believe you can really appreciate how your statement affects me. While I can understand an Anglican having a lot of affinity for the Roman Church, I cannot relate at all to one who feels more affinity to Fundemantalists. Their theology and world view are so far from anything… Read more »

NP
NP
14 years ago

Mynster says “…Nigeria seems to exist at right-angles to the rest of Anglican reality”

Please read the Primates Communique – Nigeria ain’t out of step much at all with this Anglican reality, are they?

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