Thinking Anglicans

other reports on Tanzania

The Anglican TV video of the final press conference is now available here.

More ACNS pictures are available starting here.

ENS has published Episcopal bishops offer Tanzania communiqué reflections, predictions for future with links to many remarks in full.

titusonenine has the remarks of Archbishop Henry Orombi primate of Uganda, here.

For the comments of the Primus of Scotland, Idris Jones see this.

Archbishop of Canada, Andrew Hutchison is reported over here.

AMiA has issued this press release.

What Bishop Martyn Minns of CANA said can be found here.

And David Anderson of the American Anglican Council said this.

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cryptogram
cryptogram
14 years ago

A good deal of the to-do over the last few days has been about the catholicity of the church. The strength of Dar es Salaam is that both sides took catholicity seriously: the communion of the faithful is more important than scoring points – though there were limits to this seriousness on both sides. One of the ways in which catholicity has traditionally been expressed is that a minimum of three bishops take part in the consecration of a newly elected bishop. These tend to be intra-provincial affairs, so a new bishop in York province is consecrated by the bishops… Read more »

Pluralist
14 years ago

This is nasty stuff from Canon David Anderson President of American Anglican Council: “It makes it so clear that Gene Robinson is unacceptable in his capacity as Bishop that he is going to have to go. He could either go gracefully and resign or he’s going to have to be removed. Otherwise, TEC cannot meet the demands of the communique. “It is very difficult to say if he will go gracefully. He has been the poster boy for the gay and lesbian community. He might actually be at some risk from his own community if he steps down voluntarily. It… Read more »

Cynthia
Cynthia
14 years ago

“It makes it so clear that Gene Robinson is unacceptable in his capacity as Bishop that he is going to have to go. He could either go gracefully and resign or he’s going to have to be removed. Otherwise, TEC cannot meet the demands of the communique. “It is very difficult to say if he will go gracefully. He has been the poster boy for the gay and lesbian community. He might actually be at some risk from his own community if he steps down voluntarily. It might be better for him to be forced out than to step down… Read more »

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
14 years ago

What about the other gay bishops then, Anderson ?

Why are YOU so ‘concerned’ yourself?

Have we to start naming names ?

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
14 years ago

The responses of individual TEC bishops on the Episcopal News Service site, listed here, are for the most part, very encouraging and some are inspiring too.

Terence Dear
Terence Dear
14 years ago

Reading the comments of TEC bishops in the ENS reports has set me thinking. During the 60s, 70s and 80s, I was actively involved in the CofE as a member my parish council and our diocesan synod. I was a founder member of the (then) Gay Christian Movement. As a young man, I was privileged to move in the highest circles of the CofE hierarchy on a social basis. I cannot now recall hearing much, if anything, about the Anglican Communion in those days, although I knew of the Lambeth Conference. I don’t think I was aware at all of… Read more »

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Anybody among us who thinks that the formalities requested by the Communique and Schedule will have to be the institutional end of it is seriously under-estimating the vigor and the funding persistence of the Anglican New Right. Just as they wish to drum Bishop Robinson out of the diocese which knew him, participated in his ministry, and thus discerned him as their bishop – so the rest of us for the reasons already stated, i.e., in sum, we are not Canon Anderson clones.

Isn’t anybody listening? I think the New Anglican Right typically means what it says.

Anglicanus
Anglicanus
14 years ago

Reading the reports of the Bishop of Abuja (a.k.a. Archbishop of Nigeria) that have been published on ANGLICAN MAINSTREAM I do hope and pray that His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury is taking note. It is quite clear from the statements attributed to the Most Reverend Peter Akinola that being truly Anglican has nothing to do with being in communion with the See of Canterbury. The new definition is being in agreement with the Provinces in Africa for whom HE speaks. Is there any way in which the truth can be brought home to Dr. Williams that his policies and… Read more »

Steve Watson.
Steve Watson.
14 years ago

Laurence writes:
“What about the other gay bishops then, Anderson ?
Why are YOU so ‘concerned’ yourself?
Have we to start naming names ?”

Don’t be coy, Laurence. If you know of bishops who are violating the church’s commandments in their conduct (not their affective life), you have a DUTY to name them.

But you must not be party to groundless innuendo.

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
14 years ago

‘ Have we forgotten that at the last Lambeth Conference Dr. Williams would NOT sign Lambeth 1.10? He knew then, as he knows now, that it was wrong.’
Anglicanus

This point is sO important. Thank you Anglicanus.

Signing it now cannot make it right. His postion is untenable.

BUT could not the other 146 who wrote the letter of dissent and apology to lesbian and gay people , now come to Rowan’s and our rescue ?

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
14 years ago

Terence Dear’s point above is very important.
He is in touch with a historical perspective, which sheds light on today.

He is right in his recollection and his analysis.
The primates meeting is a johnny come lately with no authority . Let’s use lower case to spell it. The higher case lends a spurious validity….

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

“I assume that nobody would disagree with me that by signing the ultimatum to TEC, the Archbishops have committed the CofE to complying with the same restrictions that they are seeking to impose on the Episcopal Church.”

No Terence Dear, I do not think that was what they meant ;=)

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

The answer to Anglicanus is Nothing.

RHH
RHH
14 years ago

TEC is being asked to accept a solution that AMiA has explicitly disowned — on the basis that its constituent congregations are now part of the Diocese of Rwanda — and that the ACC expressly believes will not be complete until +VGR has resigned or been deposed. Certainly CANA will not be placated. Why should TEC have any wish to step into such a sinkhole?

Cheryl Clough
14 years ago

Laurence Your question “Have we to start naming names?” is one of the core conundrums. There are people who are gay, but they don’t come out of the closet. In Nazi Germany, the members of the gestapo who had Jewish ancestry were often more vicious so as dissemble and divert attention away from themselves. See “I’m so anti-semetic, there’s no way that I am Jewish”. History tells us that the same thing happens with souls who have not come to terms with their homosexuality. In fact, I know a couple of homosexuals who are really good at picking those strong… Read more »

Prior Aelred
14 years ago

Simon —

Sorry if these are duplicates, but I didn’t see them here:

This is a VERY different take from the Primate of Canada:
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/world/anglican-communion/017/article/archbishop-hutchison-discouraged-by-primates-communique/

This may be a confused reporter, but it sounds like Nigeria is going to insist that the COE renounce “Issues in Sexuality”:
http://allafrica.com/stories/200702221147.html

Cheryl Clough
14 years ago

My other contemplations in the last few days have been to do with the eviction and rejection of GLBTs from our theological public life and second class citizenry within our parishes (if they can stomach the hate sermons). I found myself contemplating the parable of the prodigal son. You know the one, the son who doesn’t want to live the pure life and asks for his inheritance and goes out into the big wide world. Squanders it on narcisstic activities and bankrupts himself. Becomes miserable and decides its better to be a servant in his father’s home than broken and… Read more »

Greg
Greg
14 years ago

Anderson’s comments are absolutely shocking. For a Christian and a clergyman to suggest that rigging a legal system is accepable is simply shameful. To then suggest, as he does, that he is aware of this happening in the past, without speaking out is just as deplorable. This is the stuff of dictatorships, not a Christian polity. Saying that gay people would wish +VGR ill is pathetic and just looks like projection to me. After all, +VGR wasn’t wearing a bullet proof vest to protect him from us at his consecration, was he.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
14 years ago

“Is there any way in which the truth can be brought home to Dr. Williams that his policies and behaviour to date have done nothing other than weaken the Anglican Communion and compromise any claim which he had to personal integrity?”

Perhaps send him the latest from ++Akinola about a Sept deadine for you guys, and add a picture of dear Neville, clutching a scrap of paper from Hitler in his hand.

Maybe then he will wake up.

But I doubt it.

drdanfee
drdanfee
14 years ago

Yes the linked articles are quite interesting. If the African news piece has gots its message right, the new realigned Anglican Communion is going to disown progressive believers, queer folks, and some others in CoE who possibly could be targeted. And use these examples of discipline to show its good faith to the Vatican. There is nothing that brings folks together for a strong while like having a common, horrible enemy. It is a familiar, exquisitely tuned symbolic moment: The armed authority solemnly says, Make us a choice, then, by either allowing us to shoot that person over there for… Read more »

Fr Joseph O'Leary
14 years ago

While Canon Anderson certainly raises questions about his own integrity, it should be noted that he recognizes the integrity of his opponents: “I believe that they will willingly leave the communion before they will sacrifice their ideals, their integrity. Many of the most influential bishops deeply believe in the gay and lesbian cause and believe that it is approved and blessed by God. I cannot imagine a situation where they would sell that out.”

humbleamerican
humbleamerican
14 years ago

I offer a Modest Proposal that should settle this nasty feud once and for all. It really makes no theological sense to ban gay bishops but permit gay priests and deacons. Holy Orders is one sacrament not three. And of course we could ban all gays from both Orders and Marriage (thinly disguised as blessings). Why only two sacraments? What is the logic of that? Ban one, ban all i say. We ought catch them at Baptism and forbid it. And now with dna testing we can at least tell when the tendancy is there. I am advocating forbidding membership… Read more »

Harvard Man
Harvard Man
14 years ago

Pluralist,

Where does Anderson say these terrible things? I don’t find them on the AAC site..

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
14 years ago

Steve Watson I made no reference to bishops ‘breaking commandments’. Though clearly you and Anderson have broken them . The innuendo is in your own eye. I could name those bishops who are keen train-spotters would that be innuendo ? I could name them with a light heart because I don’t think Anderson,Giddings, Reform , Mainstream and sundry other head-bangers would start a campaign of attacks and vilification,as they did against Jeffrey John and Richard Harries. What a way to treat a faithful servant on the eve of his retirement.* The gay bishops of the Church could be more open… Read more »

Greg
Greg
14 years ago

“While Canon Anderson certainly raises questions about his own integrity, it should be noted that he recognizes the integrity of his opponents” (Fr O’Leary) Yes, and if he had stopped there, fine. But he didn’t. He carried on instead, talking of the ‘brilliance’ of the double bind the communique puts those members of TEC into and the consequences that would have. Taking the smug, ‘pleased’, tone of the rest of his comments into account as well, this man has done himself, his position and his organisation no credit at all. As a result it is hard to believe he has… Read more »

Simon Sarmiento
14 years ago

Harvard Man

The remarks of Anderson were linked in the original article above, and are at
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=1301

Göran Koch-Swahne
14 years ago

Dr Fee asked: “Isn’t anybody listening? I think the New Anglican Right typically means what it says. “

So did Herr H. Didnt’ stop people laughing.

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