Thinking Anglicans

Nigeria: CA challenges Martyn Minns

Changing Attitude has published this press release: Changing Attitude England challenges Primate of All Nigeria to protect Davis Mac-Iyalla. It says in part:

…Changing Attitude England and Nigeria challenge the Primate of All Nigeria, the Most Revd Peter Akinola, and the CANA bishop in the USA, the Rt Revd Martyn Minns, to issue a statement denouncing those church members who are threatening violence. We ask both the Archbishop and Bishop to unreservedly demand protection for Mr Mac-Iyalla and confirm the sanctity of all human life, whatever a person’s sexual orientation, in conformity with the Lambeth Conference 1998 Resolution 1.10 and paragraph 146 of the Windsor report which states that ‘any demonising of homosexual persons, or their ill treatment, is totally against Christian charity and basic principles of pastoral care.’

The Revd Colin Coward, Director of Changing Attitude England, said:

“Ii is intolerable that no Nigerian Bishop or Archbishop has issued a statement condemning the threats of violence and intimidation against Mr Mac-Iyalla. By their silence, they are tacitly showing approval for those members of the Church of Nigeria who believe they have the blessing of their church to abuse another Anglican and threaten to commit murder by drenching him in acid.”

“Both Archbishop Akinola and Bishop Martyn Minns are now implicated in the deep and destructive prejudice shown towards lesbian and gay people in Nigeria, characterised by the threats against Davis Mac-Iyalla and the Church of Nigeria‘s support for the proposed anti-gay legislation.“

“In Dar Es Salaam, in front of Canon David Anderson and Canon Chris Sugden, I asked Bishop Minns to contact Canon Akintunde Popoola and tell him to cease issuing lies and false statements about Davis. These statements have encouraged Nigerian church members to visit Mr Mac-Iyalla and threaten him with death. I have not yet received confirmation from Bishop Minns that he has done this, nor that such assurances have been given.”

“Time is now urgent. Mr Mac-Iyalla has been forced into hiding yet again. The Primatial and Episcopal leaders of the Church of Nigeria are acting with blind disregard for the safety of one of their own church members. They are deliberately supporting a bill which contravenes basic human rights and justice and renders the listening process impossible in Nigeria.”

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ettu
ettu
13 years ago

If he is murdered, will he be a a martyr? I hope we never get to find out!

bls
bls
13 years ago

It’s a good question.

A better one is, where is Rowan Williams – and where are the rest of the indignant Primates? Do those who believe that same-sex blessings cannot be performed also believe that gay people ought be hounded and jailed simply for speaking (and, possibly, for breathing)?

Do Anglican Bishops no longer have a “teaching role,” all of a sudden?

Silly question….

NP
NP
13 years ago

It is terrible that Davis is in any danger but maybe it is at least in part because others are using him to further their own political cause?

Genuine concern for his safety does not lead one to call on Akinola to protect him – does it? Do help him in a real way – eg give him some money to get somewhere safe if you really fear for his safey.

Stop using this man and his safety as a political tool.

drdanfee
drdanfee
13 years ago

Is this the sort of realigned church to which we really want to belong, and with which we so deeply wish to be identified as believers, viewed by others in the world? The silence is deafening from world Anglican leaders, not to mention other believers in other churches and faith communities. I do appreciate Canterbury’s mild and generalized remarks, but they seem bloodless and distant compared to the real worlds on our planet where death threats and violence still are taking place. This point, going into hiding to save one’s life, is the great legacy theme of the closet, itself… Read more »

Diana Smith
Diana Smith
13 years ago

It is truly amazing how silent the supporters of Akinola are. Nary a mention on Kendal Harmon’s TitusOneNine blog – and that blog is one of the more “moderate” conservative blogs!

Merseymike
Merseymike
13 years ago

NP ; thats a clear case of blaming the victim. Has it not struck you that Davis believes that he has a role to play in terms of achieving justice and fairness within Nigeria? I am sure that if he wished to seek asylum elsewhere, he could have done so. The real question is why those with your views are causing him to have to go into hiding, and why people like you are deflecting the debate towards the need for him to do something – whereas it is Akinola and Co. who actually have the ability to do something.… Read more »

Erika Baker
Erika Baker
13 years ago

NP
Who is using Davis?
Why should concern for his safety not lead one to call on the head of his church to protect him, especially when it’s that head of his church who actively promotes the legislation that endangers him and those like him?
As far as getting him out of danger is concerned – have you read any of his posts recently?
But I can only support your call for people to help finance his efforts! Donations can be made via Changing Attitude.

Gerry Lynch
13 years ago

NP, Davis MacIyalla chose to take his bold and courageous stand of his own free volition because like generations of gay liberation heroes before him he was no longer prepared to live in denial. No-one is using him and it is patronising and offensive to suggest that he lacks the intelligence and wisdom to make his own choices. Praise God for Davis MacIyalla and his courageous witness for Christ and for freedom! Like other gay men of my generation in Europe, I owe my freedom to a previous generation of Davis MacIyallas – in my native Northern Ireland to men… Read more »

Malcolm French+
Malcolm French+
13 years ago

What a bizarre post from NP. The Primate of Nigeria and his functionaries have been engaged in a campaign of slander and character assassination against Davis Mac-Iyalla for years now. The Primate of Nigeria is actively campaigning for legislation that will make Davis Mac-Iyalla a criminal. The Primate of Nigeria is doing all in his power to create an atmosphere of hatred and violence against homosexuals.

But somehow it is the liberals who have placed Davis Mac-Iyalla’s life in danger.

If it weren’t so tragic, it would be funny.

Kurt
Kurt
13 years ago

“Stop using this man and his safety as a political tool.”— NP

Have you no shame, sir? Turning the victim into the criminal, and those who aid if not abet the criminals, you turn into “victims? I ask again, have you no shame?

Colin Coward
13 years ago

NP wrote: “It is terrible that Davis is in any danger but maybe it is at least in part because others are using him to further their own political cause?” NP, are you suggesting that Changing Attitude England is using Davis Mac-Iyalla to further some political cause of our own, or are you thinking that some other group is doing this? If so, which one(s)? NP also wrote: “Genuine concern for his safety does not lead one to call on Akinola to protect him – does it?” Why doesn’t genuine concern for Davis’s safety involve calling on Archbishop Peter Akinola… Read more »

John Henry
John Henry
13 years ago

Long live patriarchy! The patriarchal order, supported by scripture, trumps human rights for anyone challenging the divinely order system of male superiority, women and gays.

++Rowan’s silence means that he is still a patriarch at heart.

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
13 years ago

I’m not easily shocked (I’ve heard too many confessions) but some of the recent blog postings about Davis Mac-Iyalla have succeeded where fornicators, thieves and adulterers have failed (no, I’m not joking, I’m genuinely appalled). The repeated shifting of the burden of proof of innocence onto Davis by one or two posters seem to undermine basic concepts of justice on both sides of the Atlantic, and whenever evidence is adduced to support him, the goalposts shift: late though I was to this discussion, I can remember a time when his very existence as an Anglican was denied. Now that he… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
13 years ago

Gerry wrote: “..Like other gay men of my generation in Europe, I owe my freedom to a previous generation of Davis MacIyallas…” and Gene Robinsons Let’s play the word substitution game. “Like other African descendants, I owe my freedom to Martin Luther King…” Or all who are descendants of slaves who predominantly owe their freedom to the ending of the slave trade… Or women who can choose to earn an income to raise their family or be a primary home nurturer, because of women who pioneered the right to work when it was illegal for married women to do so.… Read more »

Fern Winter
Fern Winter
13 years ago

Cheryl Clough, I’m a little puzzled by your question:- “Who taught the Muslims violence and castigation and repression of women and gays? Wasn’t it their older Christian cousins. The same cousins who sought to wipe out their religion when it was first being formed. Instead of holding their hands and helping them walk, you tried to exterminate them.” Er, no, I think you’ll find violence, castigation and repression was hard-wired into Islam from the get-go. Have you read the Koran and hadith? And given that most of the now muslim middle east was once Christian before it was invaded and… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
13 years ago

I’ve spent the morning fuming. I wonder if these souls even realise how insulting they have been to God? This theology that defines the OT God as being vengeful, capricious, cruel and is somehow tranformed by Jesus into a God of Love – but only of the pure males and repentant submissive slave castes. Their theology dishonors the one who entered into the covenant with Jesus. Their theology forgets that if you dishonor the one who entered into the covenant, then God has the right to dishonor the covenant. The covenant stands, not because God is particularly enamoured of Jesus… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
13 years ago

Pedantic question: “duck shoving”? This is new to me. Sounds like a useful phrase, if a messy and awkward process.

matthew hunt
matthew hunt
13 years ago

I think use of the word ‘challenge’ by Changing Attitude is very unfortunate – I think it diminishes an otherwise important, urgent and perfectly reasonable request. Should the people at whom this ‘challenge’ is aimed not respond positively, it would not seem quite as negligent and unchristian as it might have seemed if the framing of the request (?) had been less antagonistic. I would think anyone or any organisation operating in an official capacity, generally would have it as policy to disregard public ‘challenges’ (I would), but feel obliged to respond to public communications from other official organisations which… Read more »

James Akinbaya
James Akinbaya
13 years ago

Cheryl Clough: ‘Who taught the Muslims violence and castigation and repression of women and gays? Wasn’t it their older Christian cousins. The same cousins who sought to wipe out their religion when it was first being formed. Instead of holding their hands and helping them walk, you tried to exterminate them.’ You are clearly either ignorant of Christian history, or Islamic history, or in all probability both. It is also obvious that you are ignorant of the Holy Koran and the Hadith. Please find a copy and examine Suras 4.16, 4.34, 9.5, 9.29, 27.55 in the Koran and in the… Read more »

Merseymike
Merseymike
13 years ago

Personally, I think that conservative forms of both Islam and Christianity have much in common, and are equally unappealing.

The fact they ‘compete’ against each other by behaving in an essentially uncivilised and pre-modern manner sums up their lack of development.

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
13 years ago

Personally, every Muslim person I’ve ever known (you know, personally?) has been a charmer and a extra decent human being/citizen (both here at the Global Center and abroad)…wereas many Christian brothers and sisters I know (both inside and outside of the Anglican Communion) have been hateful hypocrits,liars, and sometimes even diocese crossing thieves and instigators of hate crimes…I’m especially destressed by the bigoted Primates who discriminated against fellow Christians at Communion at the Cathedral in Zanzibar built over a slave trading/beating post. Drivel, indeed. Probably just plain luck that I wasn’t decapitated while shaking a Muslims hand while meeting to… Read more »

Fern Winter
Fern Winter
13 years ago

James Akinbaya, I am ignorant of neither Islamic history nor Christian history; unlike yourself, however, I don’t wear rose-coloured spectacles when viewing the former. Why do Islamic reformers like Tariq Ramadan call for a moratorium on stoning rather than an outright ban? Isn’t it because to do so would be to obliquely criticise the founder of Islam who himself stoned women and so put Ramadan himself at risk of violent reprisals from his co-religionists who seem not to have grasped that it’s a religion of peace? Doesn’t Islam promote the death penalty for apostasy? Aren’t muslims who convert to Christianity… Read more »

Fern Winter
Fern Winter
13 years ago

Leonardo Ricardo, the plural of anecdote isn’t data.

Cheryl Clough
13 years ago

“…early Christians had some sort of duty to help establish Islam…” Absolutely. And we have a responsibility to help Jews and other branches of Christianity. If Jesus is meant to be responsible for all the peoples of all the nations, then we are responsible for helping all the peoples of all the faiths to be the best that they can be. We are called to bring out the best in others, not to use others immaturity to justify our own negligence. Cynthia “duck-shoving” is a term I learnt with my previous husband. Whenever there was a problem, you could rely… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
13 years ago

Fern Winter, Why don’t you ask the Jews of Constantinoples? or the Jews of Lithuania and Ukraina? You seem to forget inconvenient parts of the background. Might it be in the service of a post 1989 “need” in certain circles for a new Enemy; a new Evil Empire? The Byzantine State church and its Russian and so on daughters have always been extremely intolerant. The total absence of Jews from Constantinople until after its fall in 1453 and their forced exile from Spain after 1492, along with the late 19th century Russian orthodox persecutions (the infamous Protocol included) in former… Read more »

Fern Winter
Fern Winter
13 years ago

Cheryl, I’m sorry but your post (and, I assume, your position) is theological nonsense. You are assuming that, at the heart of all faiths, is a supreme being who is exactly the same as the Judeo-Christian God – but I’m afraid it just ain’t so. Buddhism rejects a deity; Hinduism is both pantheistic and polytheistic while Allah is very different from the God of the Bible. Pretending that all faiths are essentially the same just won’t do. Steve Turner expressed it well in a poem:- “Jesus was a good man just like Buddha, Mohammed and ourselves….. We believe that all… Read more »

Pluralist
13 years ago

Islam advanced in battle, but when it took an area it was tolerant of other peoples of the book, and certainly more tolerant than Catholic power. Jews and Christians had special rights under taxation, and this was significantly different from absence of rights given to Jews and Muslims by Christians. Women also had rights unseen elsewhere. What is different now is that, first of all, Islam became more bureaucratic and clericalised; secondly, it could not understand why it, the last and correcting revelation of all others by God (as it sees itself) was in effect superseded by the Renaissance and… Read more »

Laurence Roberts
Laurence Roberts
13 years ago

You are assuming that, at the heart of all faiths, is a supreme being who is exactly the same as the Judeo-Christian God – I am also sorry now, to have to inform Fern Winter that there is no such thing as ‘the Judeo-Christian God’ (or indeed the ‘Judeo-Christian traditon’). Although these terms are beloved of Christians, Jews do not subscribe to this notion. Indeed, the very term ‘the Judeo-Christian tradition’ is offensive to Jews and to Judaism, as it is unreognized by them. And once pointed out, and pondered we can soon see that the Jews have a point.… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
13 years ago

There is a difference between people wanting to emulate your best to people having your totality forced down their throat, regardless of whether they want it or it is beneficial or otherwise. Fern quotes the passage that says “come let us go up to the Mountain of the Lord.” That is a sentence of people choosing to come to the mountain. Zechariah 8:23 “…men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’” Again, seeing… Read more »

Dave
Dave
13 years ago

I hope that the Nigerian church will oppose this severe encroachment on Davis’s Human Rights – and those of all people just because of their sexual orientation.

NP
NP
13 years ago

Colin So, hand on heart, would you say there was nothing political in the motivation for issuing a public “Challenge” to +Akinola? If a traditionalist vicar in New Hampshire were to publicise a request to VGR for protection from the recent innovations of TEC, I would say there was something political in that move – especially in making it public and involving the media – wouldn’t you? Perhaps the best thing to do with regard to the Primate might have been to make a request for help via a private communication? Imagine how the ABC would respond to such a… Read more »

Erika Baker
Erika Baker
13 years ago

NP, I’m not sure I understand your comments. For all we know Colin may well have tried other ways of influencing Akinola, for all we know he has written to the ABC. But there seems to be very little positive reaction, whatever Colin may or may not have done privately. Davis is still in danger of his life, still undefended by his own Primate, the danger is still a direct cause of very public false accusations and defamation by the Primate’s own communications director. Seeing that nothing Colin may or may not have done privately has decreased the danger Davis… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
13 years ago

Dave wrote: “I hope that the Nigerian church will oppose this severe encroachment on Davis’s Human Rights – and those of all people just because of their sexual orientation. “

No Dave, this law does not encroach on peoples lives just because of their sexual orientation, it encroaches on peoples lives – heterosexual in orientation as well as homosexual in orientation – if they in any way support fellow human beings who are homosexual and their human, civil and constitutional rights.

I repeat, this legislation – as conceived and written – is directed against ALL.

Chris
Chris
13 years ago

Cheryl Clough: “Again Micah 4:5, the nations will walk in the name of their gods, whilst honoring God.” Micah 4:5 – “Though the nations around us follow their idols, we will follow the Lord our God forever and ever.” That’s not granting permission to follow other gods and fails as a pluralist justification. It’s a statement that shows contract between our LORD and other gods. Our LORD will bring peace; other gods won’t. Our LORD is powerful and His power will be seen on the Earth; other gods won’t. The people of the nations will want to go to our… Read more »

Dave
Dave
13 years ago

Dear Göran, I agree !

Göran Koch-Swahne
13 years ago

Fern Winter wrote: “… the plural of anecdote isn’t data.” Perhaps not, but the singular of Data most certainly is Anecdote ;=) Fern Winter quoted: “Jesus was a good man just like Buddha, Mohammed and ourselves….. We believe that all religions are the basically the same… they all believe in love and goodness, they only differ on matters of creation, sin, heaven, hell, God and salvation.” Well… so do Christians among themselves, it seems. Fern Winter wrote: “Either Christianity is right or it isn’t. If it is, then, by default, other belief systems must be false.” O dear, o dear,… Read more »

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