Thinking Anglicans

"This is a critical time" – Global South Steering Committee

The Global South Steering Committee has issued a statement – This is a critical time – following a meeting held in London 16-18 July 2007. The membership of the steering committee is here.

Episcopal Life Online has responded with Global South Primates vow to continue violating Episcopal Church boundaries.
The Living Church Foundation has Global South Leaders Urge Emergency Primates’ Meeting.

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Cheryl Clough
Guest

“We are hopeful for the future because our confidence is not in ourselves but in Jesus the Christ who gave his life that we might have life.” Upon Jesus’s death, the veil to the holiest snctum of the temple was torn asunder. What happened to the two souls of the ark of the covenant who had made that temple their home? Was Jesus one of them, and thus continued God’s continuing covenant to humanity, transmuting it to a more than Jewish covenant? If so, what happened to the other cherubim of the covenant? If not, what happened to both the… Read more »

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

These six reverend gentlemen do like to stir it and try and get us all worked up. Sooner Peter Akinola retires ( in two years) the better. It’ll all quieten down I’m sure once his energy is removed.

But they are at odd with both ACI and other factional groups of ‘the orthodox’ as the T19 website graphically show.

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

So ++Drexel remains committed to undermining The Other Half of Windsor. No surprise there.

If one were to invert this statement’s vision one would be accused of imperialism and colonialism. There is not the slightest sympathy for indigenous Christians in the West facing our particular onslaughts, only a demand that we fall in with the pure religion of the GS Christian heartland.

About the only thing to be thankful for is that there’s no explicit demand for us to renounce biblical scholarship….

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

So – how do they urge ‘compliance’ with Windsor when they keep on violating provincial and diocesan boundaries? How about their starting to comply with, oh, Nicea?

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

I’ll believe in Akinola’s retirement when it happens, particularly given the recent shenanigans concerning the presidency of the Christian Association of Nigeria. My money is on an extended term in office (a second term heading the CAN, a four year appointment, would obviously have helped here) or on promotion to the primacy of a new, larger communion, which clearly is also on the cards. The activities of those who need to be “the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral” offer endless possibilities. He ain’t going to go away, believe me.

Prior Aelred
Guest

Simon — thanks especially for the list — that steering committee is essentially a list of the most outspoken homophobes among the primates. I am astonished at the ongoing audacity (& disingenuousness) of citing the Windsor Report in #3 — these Global South primates have never accepted the basic Windsor principles — that the crisis is about inadequate consultation and that the church’s acceptance of same sex relationships is a possibility after a period of reception — (actually, I don’t believe that, either, but I don’t try to use the Windsor Report as a weapon) — elsewhere these primates clearly… Read more »

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

Akinola retire? Not after he’s appointed the new Archbishop of the new Anglican Communion.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

“Sooner Peter Akinola retires ( in two years) the better.”

Anyone want to bet that at some time between now and then the mandatory retirement age will be raised? Rules and limits seem to mean very little if they are in the way of his grandiose ego and limitless ambition.

I expect the assembled jillion bishops of Nigeria will at some point join in a ‘spontaneous’ vote, by acclamation, to void the retirement canons for the Archbishop, and perhaps for Minns as well.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

The power bid of the Primates Meeting to usurp what has traditionally been called the dispersed institutional and theological authorities of the worldwide Anglican Communion could hardly be clearer than in this statement, especially put in historical and cultural context. I am bemused, if not also amused, by the presupposition on their part that a dictatorship of the GS believers is God’s way, the closed and final yardstick by which all of the rest of us should be measured – as on the medieval rack? And, then to tag this approach, Reconciliation? Alas. Lord have mercy. Dear Steering Committee members,… Read more »

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

Who still pays any attention to the “primatial circus”? The GS primates and metropolitans have turned the AC into a “sick joke”. It is high time for TEC, the CofE and the other inclusive provinces to ignore the pompous purple shirts and get on with the mission of the Church, which the pirates and power-grabbers neglect in their own backyards.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“be present but unable to participate in sacramental fellowship would all the more painfully demonstrate our brokenness. “

Perhaps being reminded, painfully, of this fact would be a good thing.

“faithful Anglican”

There’s that reviling thing again.

“this is about the authority of Scripture”

Indeed. And they won’t be satisfied till we are all agreed that, in defiance of 1500 years of Christian tradition, the Spirit only leads us through the word printed. If we all aren’t Evangelicals, they can’t, as was put to our parish years ago by a group of who refused to take part in an ecumenical event, “associate with the unGodly.”

Pluralist
Guest

It is interesting that the Common Cause Partners do include a number of early continuing and breakaway groups: for example the Anglican Province of America (APA), opposed to Episcopal Church involvement in the Civil Rights movement and Prayer Book revision in the 1960s and 1970s, and the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), an evangelical denomination from 1873 opposing Anglo-Catholic practices. The temptation for the current boundary-crossers is to pull in the various splits and offshoots going on for some time (and there are a number in England). This division via the Global South goes against the cold feet approach seen by… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

I should add, having gone to Covenant Declaration of the Common Cause Partners to continue down to Theological Statement of the Common Cause Partners as these both go together.

http://www.acn-us.org/common-cause-partners/

Charlotte
Guest
Charlotte

How does Archbishop Gomez square his participation in the Global South Steering Committee with his role as chair of the Anglican Covenant Committee and lead author of the draft Covenant?

How do others manage to reconcile his dual roles?

To me, it is impossible after the release of “This is a critical time” for ++Gomez to take a leading role in the Global South Steering Committee and still be considered a good faith participant in the Covenant process.

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Having moved in political circles, I recognize why they want an emergency Primates Meeting. They can win in an emergency Primates Meeting. Or at least they think they can bully their way through, marginalize +Katharine and now +Fred, cow +Rowan and rewrite the invitation list for Lambeth. But another thing is equally obvious. Not only are they uncertain about winning the field at Lambeth (without the complete rewrite of the invitation list by the Primates), they are actually convinced that their schismatic actions will be roundly condemned. They can only win at the Primates Meeting. At an unreconstructed Lambeth, they… Read more »

Prior Aelred
Guest

Malcolm+ on Saturday, 21 July 2007 at 5:51pm BST —

“Wouldn’t it be nice to think so.”

I do think that this is the way things are headed — it looks as if there will indeed be a split, but rather than TEC & the ACinC being expelled from the WWAC, it now appears as if those primates who refused Communion with their fellows will choose to “walk apart.”

That would be sad, but would, one hopes, at least put an end to this ongoing sniping & self devouring, which does no good to anyone.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Please don’t cartoonise this down to one figurehead. There were players playing these strategies before Akinola and there will be players after he has gone. The more detailed the examination, the more clear it becomes clear that this is one priestly permutation and debate that comes up time and again. Similar debates are probably happening in other denominations and faiths (and if they are not, they should be). Shame on those who have repressed too harshly. Overnight contemplations is that their theology is more consistent with the Pharisees than that which Jesus exhorted. Similarly, some of the behaviours and perspectives… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

“How does Archbishop Gomez square his participation … ?” I do not doubt that Gomez has no problem whatever in wearing both mitres, since he “knows he is right”. This is what comes naturally when one appoints the longest-sitting primate in the Communion (30-some years) to chair a group whose head ought, regardless of his ideological bent, at least to be aware of the fact that we are living in the 21st century. Additional to Simon’s list of participating primates, Mark Harris at Preludium lists the associate and assistant secretaries of the group. The associate secretary, believe it or not,… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

I suppose that the people posting here really are NOT “thinking Anglicans,” because if you were you’d stop fighting against the tide (with mean-spirited words toward your neighbors) and begin to embrace the direction the Spirit is taking us. Be honest, you know there is no place in TEC or ACC for what the polite among you call “conservatives” and there hasn’t been for a long time. Maybe both can co-exist in the CofE, but those days are gone on the NA continent. And, please don’t try to fault only those who hold fast to ancient traditions about human sexuality.… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

Why aren’t the TEC authorities directly taking the sponsoring provinces to Court for the hi-jacking of Church property?

Why aren’t the Global South concerned about the Anglicans in the Diocese of Harare?

Do I see the dollar wafting in front of the Global South primates eyes? Subsidised travel, expenses etc.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“anyone heard of South Carolina?” Of course we’ve heard of South Carolina. I assume you are talking about their bishop elect. Here’s the thing. South Carolina diocese had the same amount of time as any other diocese to get the required consents for their bishop. The rules had changed as to how those consents could be submitted. We are talking about a contentious episcopal election in whcih it could reasonably be assumed by the responsible bodies that they needed their ‘t’s crossed and their ‘i’s dotted. It would be the responsibility of any such body to make itself familiar with… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

“Soooo, let’s stop fighting against the notion of 2 NA provinces and start embracing the idea. Let the churches decide which province they want to be aligned with and that’s that. Then we can all be free to embrace what we think/feel are the weightier matters of the faith in ways consistent with our own consciences. Who knows, maybe someday we’ll all be one again. ;-)”-Joe So what is stopping you? Go buy a piece of property next to Wal-Mart, get a contract with Morton Buildings or the local double-wide salesman and take your loving theology, hateful faithful and schismatic… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

I’ve lived in South Carolina, though not in this diocese, for many years, Ford. I think you’re overestimating us if you see method in this, as opposed to good old Southern muddle.

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Ford asked:
“How is this “intolerance” on the part of liberals?”

simple. Because the Neocons didn’t get their way. Remember the words of Jesus.
“Rule 1. My ultra-orthodox, ultra-pure, ultra-conservative followers are always right.
Rule 2. When they are wrong, rule 1 applies.”

verbum domini….

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

Re. South Carolina’s episcopal election, how can TEC’s diocesan standing committees give consent to a bishop-elect, who has made statements to the effect that, pending future developments, he may choose the AC over TEC? How can the bishop-elect vow at his consecration to uphold TEC’s constitution and canons when he has no intention of doing so? It’s the Cranmer case all over again. At his consecration as Cantuar, he vowed allegiance to the Bishop of Rome, knowing full well that he would renounce that allegiance within days in order to become the King’s ABC. Was Cranmer an honorable man? Definitely,… Read more »

Prior Aelred
Guest

John Henry on Sunday, 22 July 2007 at 3:48pm BST —

I’ve said exactly this many times, although not so well — Fr Lawrence has also refused to receive Communion when Presiding Bishop Katharine was presiding at the Eucharistic celebration (although his wife did — maybe she should be bishop — she at least seems to be in Communion with TEC’s primate, which most people might think would be a reasonable requirement).

Pluralist
Guest

Well there is the Chelmsford move: you all know the one. Get the hands on the head to join the club, then refuse the meal afterwards.

Pluralist
Guest

Remember the juicy rumour and I made a suggestion of plenty of water and ice cubes on to it? Take a few ice cubes out.

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=1899

He’s making a general point about justifying international oversight wrapped up in revelatory judgmental garb.

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

Well there is the Chelmsford move: you all know the one. Get the hands on the head to join the club, then refuse the meal afterwards.

Posted by: Pluralist on Sunday, 22 July 2007 at 10:48pm BST

MORNINGTON CRESCENT !

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

I had seen the Sugden “End to Nationalistic Anglicanism” linked elsewhere, Pluralist. Not difficult to see where we’re heading with this one. And he’s still pushing the spurious racist smear against those he opposes – “there has been a demonisation of African Christian leaders, especially from Nigeria” [I assume he means that the African Christian leaders, not the demonisation, are from Nigeria, but verbal precision is not always Dr. Sugden’s strong suit]. Personally I had not noticed much demonisation of Archbishop Ndungane, so maybe the offence has been committed only against such African Christian leaders as have been donning horns… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

CBFH says: “Go buy a piece of property next to Wal-Mart, get a contract with Morton Buildings or the local double-wide salesman…”

Ah, such snobbish elitism is usually concealed in public. Thanks for proving my point!

NP
Guest
NP

Lapin – I haven’t said anything on this one….but nice of you to think of me – you are my favourite rabbit by far! Lots of ad hominem attacks on certain archbishops on this thread…..but anyway, yes, it is coming to a choice for the ABC: the current leadership of TEC or losing Nigeria+Kenya+Uganda+…..+ large parts of the CofE (the healthy parts, if you will pardon me saying so) The ABC can threaten the GS (as he has through ++Sentamu?) that their non-participation in Lambeth etc will decide the issue…..but only if he is really willing to see the AC… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

I agree it is an end to nationalistic Anglicanism. After all, loyalty based on fiefdom is idolatry – it is promoting a family or a government as the ruling authority. The same as loyalty to one manifestation is idolatry, it denies that God can present in other forms. My children and a friend wrote a play the other week. Their script was based on a phone conversation between God and various souls. A fourteen-year-old wrote that Lucifer asked God when would it be his turn to be God. Says it all, really. The battle is not for who controls the… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“healthy” They might be numerically bigger, but if you want to call what they are practicing in this instance “healthy” Christianity, well, we have a very different definition of Christianity. “TEC refused to hear the pleas of the AC” Dear, dear. It’s getting to the point where the only thing to do is pat you patronizingly on the head and say “What a nice little fantasy world you have.” “nice people like Ford” Oh, pshaw! If you think I’m nice, that just goes to show the quality of the people by whom you judge me. “ordained heretics” But, you see,… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Snobbish elitism manifested itself when parishioners’s insecurity over an insignificant bishop in a tiny diocese had to raise extraordinary amounts of money to import a cleric from thouosands of miles away to fuel and coddle their hatred.

Thanks for proving my point, Joe!

David H.
Guest

NP opined, “WE have lots of people so we can always get new buildings.”

Nice to see you finally tying those, two concepts together. Esp. after your interminable going-on about about how your side is “right” because there are supposedly more of you…

So when can I expect the “Anglican Rightwing” in the West to stop their whinging, exit gracefully (leaving the silver and the church keys behind), and get on with this ? (i.e. “put your money where your mouth is” ?)

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

This is the so-called “Global South’s” last desperate gasp. Their efforts have failed. Their attempt to hijack the Communion is collapsing around them. And so they demand a meeting of the one body where they have been able to bully their way to victory – the Primates Meeting. But even their, they have overplayed their hand so egregiously, I doubt that they would be able to win the day even there. Of course, the point is moot. There will be no “emergency Primates Meeting” because even the most benighted observer can tell that it is the last desperate gasp of… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

NP warned of the loss of parts of the C of E, adding “(the healthy parts, if you will pardon me saying so)”

No. I don’t pardon you saying so. You denigrate vilely the faithful, prayerful folk in parishes like mine who would not dream of abandoning the CofE’s historic messy variety in pursuit of a puritan elite.

A certain Palestinian Jew said something about the sorts of folk who cared more for their own purity than the wellbeing of others…

Joe
Guest
Joe

CBFH: Our dispute is about more than one bishop, he simply personifies the issue. Listen, I have no fight with you. Those persons like me (whom you are allowed to hate whilst preaching inclusion…go figure) see the leadership of TEC as being in need of massive reform in the least and apostate at worst. And I say that as a matter of fact with no malice in my heart. For us it is like a husband who cheats on his wife over and over and over and eventually ceases to even apologize. In fact, he glories in his sin. In… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Joe, when you say “well, we choose to believe that Jesus will never leave us or forsake us”, what is the force of ‘choose to’?

I’m trying hard not to see it as a sideswipe at those who don’t agree with you, but it does come across as the acid comment of a pure believer.

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

A couple of days ago, someone posting on Ruth Gledhill’s blog inquired of the Global South clique, “can they start alternative episcopal oversight in Harare?”

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

Joe it’s your faithfulness to YOUR interpetation of Scripture, which conveniently matches your own visceral anti-gay prejudice, which precedes Scripture in your life. Scripture you are using to ratinalise your anti-gay predudice., I don’t care if you hate gays or not–please yourself. However, your anti-gay words and other behviours do concern me. Get real–at least try to be honest with yourself. I wish wish you would leave TEC as you despise it so much. Why stay ? It it to cause this stink ? I left the CofE to disassociate from its institutionalised homophobia. You go too ! You will… Read more »

cryptogram (John Marshall)
Guest
cryptogram (John Marshall)

Joe wrote: “for us to deny this is to deny a first principle: obedience to the self-revelation of God in the Scriptures.” There I think we see one of the big fissures. For many who would take an alternative view on all these issues the self-revelation of God is first of all in Jesus, and in the scriptures in so far as they bear witness to him. John’s gospel has Jesus say (I quote the evangelical NIV) “You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures which testify about me,… Read more »

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

In response to John Marshall’s comment above, a paragraph from a sermon preached here the other week: “Just to look at the Good Samaritan story, especially in the light of Ezra and Nehemiah, the labels of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are reversed. The Samaritan is revealed as a compassionate human being, the Priest and the Levite as deeply flawed. Perhaps even more controversial is the suggestion that they are flawed because of their religion. The labels which are attached to these three people by common prejudice are shown to be completely perverted. They say nothing about the worth of the three,… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

David, you should NOT see my comment about ‘Jesus never leaving us’ as an acidic sideswipe, for it was nothing of the sort. I am simply saying if +Rowan chooses to abandon the GS (which he seems ready to do) we will not be abandoned by Christ, that’s all I meant. Our security is not in Canterbury (or Kigali for that matter). …try not to be so insecure, not all conservatives are mean. 😉 John, you make a good point and one I’ve tried to consider. But, I ask you, couldn’t every immoral and heretical position say the same thing?… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

“I know it is good sport to lump us all together with broad stereotypes but the fact is I (and those I work with) don’t hate gays. We just believe that gay sex (which is only part of the greater problem) is incompatible with Christian living. Furthermore, for us to deny this is to deny a first principle: obedience to the self-revelation of God in the Scriptures” And it would seem to be a good sport to lump all gay sex as sinful. Again, I’ve harped on this ad infinitum, how is it that individuals can ignore scientific evidence of… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Sorry mynster – I see too many parishes in my deanery synod which are not healthy….some stuff goes on but there is little or no growth at best, few attempts at mission, hardly anyone under 60, nothing much to build upon given the wishy-washy leadership in those parishes – just slow decline and it is clearly not sustainable long-term given the small, aging groups meeting there. Sorry, there are lots of very unhealthy parishes in the CofE…..with vicars who blame everyone else but themselves for the state of their own congregations. We have to be honest – not all parts… Read more »

badman
Guest
badman

I don’t see why this is news. It seems to be a statement issued purely for the benefit of the blogosphere, which has gobbled it up with relish. No-one else will see it. If it was meant as a communication to the Archbishop of Canterbury, it wouldn’t have been released in this form. It hasn’t been published anywhere except on the web. It has not been covered in any national or local newspaper. It is just the usual suspects saying what they have been saying for some time. There aren’t many of them, and Ephraim Radner is on record as… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

If Drexel Gomez was not present, although listed as attending, who else, aside from Akinola and Mimms, who one can be pretty certain were there, was actually at the meeting? It did strike me as a little odd that the communiqué was not signed.

Pluralist
Guest

An alternative to so called wishy washy leadership would not make a scrap of different. Wishy washy? You mean people who serve others, who do things so valuable but others may not notice (so what), who make those little additions to people’s lives that leave a positive mark. This is not some marketing business. And so what if folks are over 60, they have lives too, important lives of effort, reflection and wisdom, who also want their places to go and people to see. A good discussion with nine others is its own event, and everyone left with a positive… Read more »