Thinking Anglicans

Desmond Tutu appeals for unity

Rachel Boulding reports it in the Church Times headlined Be united and let Jesus smile again, begs Dr Tutu and Matthew Davies reports it in Episcopal News Service under Tutu urges full Lambeth participation.

THE ARCHBISHOP Emeritus of Cape Town, Dr Desmond Tutu, has made an emotional appeal to the Primates of the Anglican Communion to accept one another, and agree to disagree.

In the open letter sent last week to his successor as Primate of the Anglican Church of Southern Africa, the Most Revd Njongonkulu Ndungane, he asks all the Primates to put aside their differences in order to deal with the world’s troubles.

He describes how, on a recent retreat: “I felt under considerable divine pressure to address this appeal to you and your fellow Primates.” Referring to Luke 15 and its parables of the lost sheep and the prodigal son, he writes: “We are most like this God and God’s Son when we are welcoming and inclusive. It is almost a defining characteristic of God to draw together, to unite. . . Sin, on the contrary, always divides. It is centrifugal by nature. It alienates, separates, like apartheid.”

After referring to unity and fellowship as “a gift from God”, he writes of the “bewildering diversity” of God’s creation: “None is self-sufficient, but all are made for interdependence, each making up what is lacking in the other. In a world where difference has led to alienation and even bloody conflict, the Church is God’s agent to demonstrate that unity in diversity is in fact the law of life.”

Dr Tutu admits: “I am not telling you anything new.” He continues: “Our Communion has always been characterised by its comprehensiveness, its inclusiveness, its catholicity

. . . We have been known to embrace within this one family those whose views were almost diametrically opposed. We said: ‘I disagree with you but we belong together.’”

He then addresses the Archbishop of Canterbury directly: “Please invite [to the Lambeth Conference] ALL those in Episcopal orders who are not retired, even those irregularly consecrated or actively gay; please, now I appeal to you all, do not excommunicate one another seemingly so easily. Be welcoming and inclusive of one another. Commune with one another and with our Lord, sacramentally and in other ways.”

Dr Tutu ends dramatically: “Our Lord is weeping to see our Communion tearing itself apart on the issue of human sexuality, when the world for which he died is ravaged by poverty, disease, war and corruption. We are one of God’s agents to deal with these scourges. God has no one but us. Please, I beg you all in our Lord’s name, agree to disagree, argue, debate; disagree, but do all this as members of one family. Accept one another as God accepts us, however we are, in Christ.

“Wipe the tears from our Lord’s eyes; put the smile back on God’s face. I beg you all on bended knee.”

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Pluralist
Guest

I think this is where Rowan Williams can revise his invitations – to include all on an equal basis. It still, though, should remain for discussions and for study etc. – nothing so illusory as a binding agreement can come from this set of primates – and it should be expected that nevertheless the issue of the Communion overthrows all other issues. The result could still be as Robin Gill puts it – some not recognising others, and some organising alone afterwards. Indeed, lack of ability to have the illusion to make binding resolutions might still keep those away who… Read more »

Joseph O'Leary
Guest

Tutu is the only Anglican voice whose authority stretches far beyond a parochial support group. His present address is a prophecy, and must be listened to.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Tutu’s plea is consistent with the imagery of Isaiah 54 and Zephaniah 3:14-20: “The remnant of Israel will do no wrong; they will speak no lies, nor will deceit be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” Sing, O Daughter of Zion;shout aloud, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O Daughter of Jerusalem! The LORD has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The LORD, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm. On that day they… Read more »

james n. lodwick
Guest
james n. lodwick

Thank you so much, Archbishop Tutu, for the best and most helpful words heard yet in the current
Anglican row! I pray one of our great prophets will be listened to.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

If there is one overriding theme for study, worship, prayer at the next Lambeth, surely it is theme of just how broad-hearted Anglicans worship at the Lord’s Table and do Tikkun service while holding opposing or different views in theology. An example of how to differ while not taking up arms, doctrinal and otherwise. Such a call is not destined to be received well on the spectrum of Anglican rightwing realignments, however. Clearly, as the realignment campaign has steadily done throughout – the Anglican sex police are moving on, step by step by step. As planned, right from the realignment… Read more »

Scott Henthorn
Guest
Scott Henthorn

drdanfee Intolerance for difference is not the sole possession of “the spectrum of Anglican rightwing realignments”. Your whole post indicates you want it one way and no other. AB Tutu is not impartial here,”Like his successor Ndungane, Tutu has been a staunch supporter of gay rights and advocated for an Anglican Communion that is inclusive of all people regardless of sexuality.” Those who want to debate and disagree need to honestly and calmly state opinion and allow the same from others; Listen and calmly respond. That will be the only source of healing. It is clear that there are many… Read more »

Curtis
Guest
Curtis

Tutu’s tactics won’t work. It’s a nice thought, but the right wing has already stated their intentions to walk and not be in communion with progressives. So, it is as it has been. I agree with drdanfee. Let them walk and leave the light on for them.

Scott Henthorn
Guest
Scott Henthorn

Curtis,
I am not sure we know yetr who is walking fom whom.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Tutu remembers his friends. As one conservative commented on a TA thread several months ago, GLBTs were at the forefront of the battle against apartheid. At the time I pointed out that this proved they deserved respect, as they were also at the forefront of the fight against Nazism, and have been in many other crux periods in history. This week’s Out In Scripture study is excellent http://hrc.org/scripture/week.asp, it is a lesson in how they can and should play a role in restoring the streets and communities. This is the opening passage of the study “God’s people are about the… Read more »

SharonG
Guest
SharonG

I agree with you Curtis. Let them go. When will people understand that this policy of hatred and exclusion is the last thing for which a church should be known? Especially over something like sexual orientation which IS NOT CHOSEN but something we are born with. I usually like to say that I go with what Jesus said about it, i.e nothing. To me this is just a power play by a third world thug mascarading as a Christian.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“The best way forward for now is something very like that modeled by the General Con in USA during the conflicts (mostly with southern state Episcopalians) about ending slavery – let rightwing believers stay away at their own discretion, but make no finality of it and always extend a welcome to return. Provided they disarm and agree to disagree.”

“Keep on keeping on…”

(but I don’t understand the dys-functional family imagery, it’s just weird. The Gospel is empowering precisely because it is critical of dysfunctionality and power-plays.)

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Scott Henthorn: “Those who want to debate and disagree need to honestly and calmly state opinion and allow the same from others; Listen and calmly respond. That will be the only source of healing.”

Try it! It might work.

“… honestly…”

Take some Greek – and a short History of Ideas!

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

… maybe a long one ;=)

Joseph O'Leary
Guest

The slavery analogy works fine — Tutu recognizes that gay rights are human rights, yet he is prepared to be in communion with those who do not yet recognize this. As usual he is going the extra mile to a near-scandalous extent. As in the slavery debate, the rightists appear unteachable, shored up with their fundamentalist understanding of Scripture, but time is moving on and the welcome mat must be kept out for them until they too learn what so many Christians have learned in recent decades.

Scott Henthorn
Guest
Scott Henthorn

Goran,

I will calmly respond:
You presume I am uneducated because I do not hold your views.
You assume that if I did have the quantity, or quality of education that would earn you placement of me as worthy of engauging you indiscussion that I would agree with you.

EPfizH
Guest
EPfizH

On the subject of Lambeth… The Good Bishop of South Africa has earnestly requested that all be invited. And, to the extent that the Conference is what the Archbishop of Canterbury purports it to be, non-legislative, non judicial, I absolutely agree for we truly need to be present to one another and actively listen. But I suspect that there is an entirely different agenda on the part of the Anglican Communion Institute, its British partners and “Communion Conservatives.” I believe that the intent is to work with friendly primates and Global South allies to morph Lambeth into both a legislative… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

No soul is more blind than the one that does not want to see. There is an adult educational model (works for kids and nonhumans too). We don’t know what we don’t know. We then know that we don’t know something. We then decide we might want to learn about something, we then start to learn something. We then know what we know and can do what must be done. A soul does not know that something exists or is possible, therefore it does not exist or is not possible e.g. microwave ovens a century ago. A soul comes to… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Part 2: A soul comes to recognize that it does exist and it might be possible. This is the transformative moment when the soul turns to God and asks if it is possible, and whether they might personally experience it. For example, is it possible they could be part of the birth pangs to introduce the millennia of peace promised after the book of Revelation is complete? Some souls panic and flee back to the familiar, no matter how cruel or degrading it might be. Others take the leap of faith, recognize that it might be possible and then ask… Read more »

DGus
Guest
DGus

Archbishop Tutu is quoted as saying, “Our Lord is weeping to see our Communion tearing itself apart on the issue of human sexuality, when the world for which he died is ravaged by poverty, disease, war and corruption.”

But what if, in fact, sexual perversion is part of the “corruption” that is ravaging the world for which Christ died? What if no one will see God without sanctification (Heb. 12:14), and sanctification requires avoiding sexual immortality (1 Thess. 4:1)?

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Dgus

Your theory is based on a fundamental premise that as long as male does not rape male there is not rape.

Unfortunately for the premise taught to you by complacent males, God remembers both the rapes against the males and the females.

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

“But what if, in fact, sexual perversion is part of the “corruption” that is ravaging the world for which Christ died?”

Yes, I agree. Rape and child abuse are indeed part of the corruption. I take it you meant those obvious perversions of loving sex, not the loving sex same gender people may have.

Imagine yourself standing before Christ next to a child who died because of malnutrition. Imagine yourself saying you genuinely believed it was more important to spend your time fighting against faithful couples who love each other, so, sorry, the child died.
Really??

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“I am not sure we know yetr who is walking fom whom.” Well, Scott, consevos certainly seem sure that it is the “liberals” who are doing the walking. In response, some “liberals” seem to be taking the view that it is the Conservatives who have itchy feet. In fact, either side is too busy yelling its position to be walking anywhere. Indeed, each side is yelling so loudly, even the still small voice is being drowned out. “But what if, in fact, sexual perversion is part of the “corruption” that is ravaging the world for which Christ died?” DGus, I… Read more »

David H.
Guest

Erika reminds us of the most important point here. If I may paraphrase the blogger “Mad Priest” here, I’m not concerned with what loving, consenting adults do in private, but it scares the sh*t out of me to think that I had a chicken salad sandwich for lunch yesterday while a child starved to death somewhere in the world.

Try explaining *that* to our Lord upon the day of your judgment…

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

DGus asked: “But what if, in fact, sexual perversion is part of the “corruption” that is ravaging the world for which Christ died? What if no one will see God without sanctification (Heb. 12:14), and sanctification requires avoiding sexual immortality (1 Thess. 4:1)?” The only corruption here stems from the sexualized reading. 1st Thessalonians says IRL: 1. Loipòn oûn, Adelfoì, eråtåmen umâs kaì parakaloûmen en Kuríå Iäsoû ína kathås parelábete par’ämån tò pås deî umâs peripateîn, kaì aréskein Theå, kathås kaì peripatêite ína perisseúäte mâllon, 2. oídate gàr tínas parangelías edåkamen umîn dià toû Kuríou Iäsoû. Further, Siblings, we beg… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Hi Goran Your posting brings forward two paradigms that color this debate. On the one hand there is the position that humanity and this earthly manifestation are the consequence of error and sin, of souls ‘falling’. It was Eve’s fault so all women should shut up. Souls who take this position often advocate separation from this world and most especially separation from the opposite gender lest they conceive and thus be seen to condone continuing this earthly manifestation. The other position is that God creates all levels of existence including this earthly manifestation which is both desired and pleasing to… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“… sexual immor-t-ality…”

No, sexuality (a Modern to late Modern concept) has nothing do to with immortality ;=)

NP
Guest
NP

Is Tutu impartial? NO Is a fudge “unity”? NO Does sticking together matter more than truth? NO Does the ABC want CofE parishes leaving to come under faithful Anglican leadership from Africa? N0 Unity is great…..but it must be real and there must be trust within the communion. TEC showed in 2003 that it does not give a fig for UNITY when its own agenda is not accepted widely in the AC….. The weakness with the old lines Tutu has trotted out is obvious…..the Lord never called for unity amongst various groups which do not believe the same thing. The… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

There is the joke about the soul who ended up before St Peter because they drowned in the flood. Sitting on the roof of their submerging house, a guy in a kayake goes by and offers a lift. “Go save someone more needy”, replies the soul. Then a guy in a motorboat comes by and offers a lift. The soul replies “”Go save someone more needy”. Then a helicopter rescue team arrives overhead and the guy suggests they rescue someone else first. Indignant, the guy dies and goes to heaven. “Hey God, why didn’t you save me?”, he asks. Hey,… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Cheryl – what is a false teacher in your definition? Seems to me that you are making up your own definition rather than going by the bible? I am using the term as we find it in the bible eg Jude 1:3-8. http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Jude+1%3A3-8 This (and other verses) tells us what a false teacher is….i.e. people “who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ”. Sorry, but I think we see both of the above in certain TEC leaders…..you see, the issue is not about one group or one act, it is… Read more »

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“This (and other verses) tells us what a false teacher is….i.e. people ‘who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ’. Sorry, but I think we see both of the above in certain TEC leaders….” What?!? Can you say any absurd thing that pops into your head and expect people to take you seriously? To say that the leadership of TEC denies Jesus Christ is calumny of the worst sort. It is absurd. How can you get away with saying it. Similarly, you simultaneously accuse the leadership of TEC of “pervert[ing]… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Thanks for the link NP, I note the last sentence refers to “Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones.” I refer you to Isaiah 37 which includes “Who is it you have insulted and blasphemed? Against whom have you raised your voice and lifted your eyes in pride? Against the Holy One of Israel! By your messengers you have heaped insults on the Lord… “Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it. In days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Cheryl….you seem confused. You say wanting to stick to God’s revealed will, sticking to what he says in the bible is going against him??? You say “You act as if there was no God, as if God had no feminine that God cared for. You deny God’s ability to send messengers and incarnations” – but does not ignoring what he says on certain subjects fit your description much better than sticking to what God has said in the bible?? There has only been one incarnation, by the way…..that is according to a man called Jesus Christ who called himself unique… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

ruidh – do read carefully before you throw toys…you misquote me and then criticise me for your misquotes I said ” I think we see both of the above in certain TEC leaders” You never heard of any TEC leaders making comments which are basically pluralist?? Try using Google if you really are unaware that such statements have been made. (or you can read the famous Akinola (with some help from Minns) letter. As for being connencted with “reality”, are you also one of those who wants to pretend that Windsor and Tanzania did not occur in recent AC history…..I… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Cheryl – I think this article may help you
http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/2007/08/now-hear-this-gene-robinson-and-voice.html

If we have to decie between people hearing voices and God’s word, we are wise to stick with God….or there is chaos as in the AC currently

Cardinal Wardrobe
Guest
Cardinal Wardrobe

There are enough people quoting “scripture” in order to back up both reasonable and unreasonable thinking about this and that. In fact there are too many! Why can’t we discuss reasonably, seeking our perception of a Christlike attitude and vision without falling into the trap of giving scripture verses an authority they were never intended to have. Our relationships with each other, even with those with whom we “disagree”, would be better if we stopped doing it. We would then have to wrestle with the living vocabulary which we all have. Thank goodness I don’t have to quote scripture when… Read more »

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

Cardinal Wardrobe, What about the second coming ?
I think we should be told …

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“…without falling into the trap of giving scripture verses an authority they were never intended to have.” Because a significant number of those who call themselves “orthodox” subscribe to the distinctly unorthodox belief that Scripture not only IS the seat of authority in the Church, but, in denial of history, claim that it ALWAYS had this level of authority. “seeking our perception of a Christlike attitude and vision “ But where’s the fun in that? Those you refer to above have, on this site and elsewhere, quoted the Scripture to which they give all authority to justify their refusal to… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Asélgeia; ravings, refers to Bacchanals.

I don’t think even NP in his wilder moments is ready to say that Bishop Robinson, or PBs Griswold or Jefferts Shori, or ABC Williams take part in Bacchanals.

Or?

PS The so called Letter or Jude is the same text as 2 Peter 2, the heathen origial of which is preserved. All are very late 2nd century.

So much for the (admittedly un-Biblical) concept of “Scripture”.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Better tell the Catholics to demote Mother Theresa, as she experience “interior imaginative locution” — she distinctly heard a voice in her head tell her what to do. Other souls talk about hearing the Holy Spirit telling them what to do. There is the email about the guy who came out of a bible study that contemplated that God who spoke to Samuel was probably capable of doing so in the here and now. He then went through a series of hearing a distinct voice and following its prompts which led to him standing on a holding a gallon of… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

The other thing is that “interior imaginative locution” is a well established gift from Spirit. It has the characteristics of many of the prophets of the Old Testament, and is one of the gifts following the Pentecost. If it is not legitimate, then the Apostle Paul really lost the plot. On a personal level, it took a lot of convincing by God that it was not just my imagination. This paper is my Gideon’s fleece story of why I came to trust that distinct voice http://www.wombatwonderings.org/files/he_prepares_the_way.pdf It preceeded many other corroborations, some of which are on the testimony page of… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

_Jesus Christ who called himself unique as God on earth_ NP

That’s just the point, isn’t it. No he didn’t – he was a completely faithful Jew and would never have considered himself God on earth. Others, later, thought he was, quite some time later. Theological expansion it might be called. Maybe they were right, or not, but Jesus himself didn’t think so. He might have thought he was necessary to bring about the Kingdom of God, but that is another matter.

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“I said ” I think we see both of the above in certain TEC leaders” You never heard of any TEC leaders making comments which are basically pluralist?? Try using Google if you really are unaware that such statements have been made.” Ah, yes, the bait and switch. When asked to substantiate accusations of apostacy and denying Christ, NP comes up with lame old examples of “pluralism”. Statements which, while they have been made by certain leaders, are not unique in the history of the Church and are a far cry from “denying Christ”. Again, I ask you to substantiate… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

In the meantime, Tutu will be pleased to see the World Council of Churches quoting from his “God has a dream book” and looking at how to integrate the African concept of Ubuntu And Asian Sangsaeng into a modern and relevant theology. http://allafrica.com/stories/200708281082.html?page=3 Some might cling to the old world order, but sufficient numbers have awoken to the realization it is a destructive and cruel path to death, and they are instead revisiting the holy texts and societal wisdoms to recreate wise and life affirming paradigms. The other thing is that complete fulfillment of the bible necessitates active female figures.… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Ford….you know the foundations of Anglicanism give the same high weight to scripture that I do…. Pluralist – same answer….I think you will find that this Anglican church that you want to be an “anything goes”, biblical-theology-free-zone has for quite a while subscribed to the view that the Lord clamied to be God and was indeed proved to be God in his death and resurrection – you do know that right? I know you are making up your own religion which strangely enough requires you to agree with yourself but you do know that Anglicanism is based on scriptures and… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Cheryl – you say you might be insane – I agree. What does Gaia think?

ruidh – you ain’t aware of the false teaching most of us in the AC cannot agree with in the light of scripture…..please see The Windsor Report for one example. You can read the Akinola (with a little help from Minns!) letter too.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“you know the foundations of Anglicanism give the same high weight to scripture that I do” No, they don’t actually. “Containeth all things necessary to salvation” does not mean the same as “all things contained in it are necessary to salvation.” And then there is the oddly Anglican idea of “necessary to salvation” as though St. Peter stands with a clipboard at the Pearly Gates, making sure you have the required points of belief. Also, Tradition and Reason must be factored in, which you clearly do not do. And while “councils may err” we still accept the Seven Ecumenical Councils,… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

NP. We are all burdened with handicaps. I chose insanity over spiritual blindness. To stop the plague of snakes, Moses had to incorporate the snake into the healing, just as we do with spider and snake venoms today. In a world sick with insanity, the vaccine must by necessity contain an element of the insanity to arouse the immune response. The difference between my insanity and others is that it is a nonlethal form that heals the infected and refines their immune system to protect from further infections. I had myself assessed by a professional psychologist before I took the… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

Hang on. How does NP know that I agree with myself? Sometimes I do some, gosh, even biblical study and decide I do not agree with myself. Oh, by biblical study I mean source criticism, redaction criticism, as in methods taught in the colleges, as in not reading stuff straight off the page as if that’s all there is to it. Nor is it a book of rules.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“As opposed to yours, which strangely enough requires the Bible to agree with you?”

Experience tells us that when Text and teaching are supposted to be one (that is whenever they are conflated ;=), the Text will be changed to accomodate the (alien) teaching…

NP
Guest
NP

Ford…what you keep on avoiding is that I am merely wanting to stick to the creeds (when people like KJS say there are many paths to God) and I want to stick to the agreed position of the AC when it comes to Lambeth 1.10 (which has not been overturned as far as I know)…..so, I am making up my own religion??

Ford, I think this is worth a read with regard to “listening” and honest reponses:
http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/2007/08/repeat-after-me-theyre-not-listening.html