Thinking Anglicans

more on the Kenya consecrations

Ruth Gledhill has more on her blog about this: Speculation over whether Atwood et al to come to Lambeth

The Times had this report from Rob Crilly in Nairobi US congregations defect to Africa as schism over gay priests widens

Andrew Carey has published his CEN column, Anglican chaos.

Anglican Mainstream reports English General Synod members send congratulations on African consecrations. Those listed include the Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali.

At Fulcrum Graham Kings expresses his reservations, see this discussion thread.

And the Associated Press reports US priests getting ordained in Kenya say American church has lost its way

Both sides of the argument say the issue goes deeper than simple acceptance of homosexuality. Liberal Anglicans say the Bible’s message of tolerance means there should be a place for everyone in church, but conservatives say that is bending the word of God to fit fashion.

“American males who are homosexually active have a life span that is three decades shorter than the norm,” Atwood said Wednesday. “How can a church say, ‘You are precious, we care about you, we love you, we want the best for you and now we want to bless behaviors that cause you to die three decades early’?”

See here for comment on the source of this claim.

Episcopal News Service has KENYA: Two former Episcopal priests consecrated as bishops for North America

The BBC’s Alex Kirby has written Kenya consecration deepens Anglican rift.

..So when one bishop (in this case Dr Nzimbi) acts in a way that undercuts the authority of another bishop, it is the clearest possible way of emphasising the church’s disunity.

What Dr Nzimbi is saying, in effect, is that he knows better than the US bishops about the pastoral needs of their people.

The two new bishops promised to “serve the international interests of the Anglican Church of Kenya, to serve clergy and congregations in North America under the Kenyan jurisdiction”.

It is a formula which ignores the fact that none of the Anglican Communion’s member churches has any international interests of its own.

All are – in theory – united in working for the interests of the Communion itself.

And the claim that there are North American Anglicans “under the Kenyan jurisdiction” is breathtaking in the way it opens the door to ecclesiastical anarchy.

No doubt Dr Nzimbi believes the consecrations are in the best interests of Kenyan Anglicans, and of their fellow believers elsewhere in Africa.

In fact they look very unlikely to be anything of the sort…

Boston Globe Consecration in Kenya widens a religious rift

Voice of America Kenya’s Anglican Church Ordains American Bishops

Church Times Archbishop of Kenya consecrates bishops to work in US

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Cheryl Clough
Guest

Need to read all the links but ““American males who are homosexually active have a life span that is three decades shorter than the norm,” Atwood said Wednesday. “How can a church say, ‘You are precious, we care about you, we love you, we want the best for you and now we want to bless behaviors that cause you to die three decades early’?” Gee. Maybe that explains why the Nigerian Anglicans are touting that anyone who is HIV positive should not be allowed to enter University nor graduate nor marry. Apparently HIV infection is proof of their sinfulness and… Read more »

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

WoW !

If my life is being cut short by 3 decades, how come I am already 56 1/2 ?!

I love the way these bishops tell it ! …

Now, reading such bilge could be a serious risk to life and limb — for anyone who reads it without a hoot — or at least a smile…..

I recall, not so long ago, a northern England bishop waxing lytical on how ‘penis & vagina were made for each other’ !

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

The congratulatory message from the General Synod members is sanctimonious claptrap of a high order. “there is neither ….. male nor female”? Say what, now?

And would someone point out to Chris Sugden that the “Canon Dr.” business he so dearly loves is over-egging the pudding to the edge of vulgarity? The prefixes “Rev’d Canon” and “Rev’d Dr.” are standard usage. “Canon Dr.”, insofar as I am aware, is not.

Deacon Charlie Perrin
Guest
Deacon Charlie Perrin

Jesus wept.

Davis d'Ambly
Guest
Davis d'Ambly

Nothing less than a rush to reverse-colonise.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

So far as Bishop Atwood’s reliance on Paul Cameron’s work, unquestioned, unweighed:

Alas, we are rapidly becoming a church where the holy texts are being used to try to save us from the facts. I believe even Canterbury has called this, unintelligent readings of scripture.

Alas. Lord have mercy. Has the rest of the Anglican planet grown weary of USA-type rightwing shenanigans, yet?

Pluralist
Guest

Andrew Carey has written: “To add to the Anglican chaos” But then.. “I’m not greatly sympathetic however to the official Anglican Communion response that the consecrations create ‘increased confusion'” Presumably he prefers “adding to the chaos” over “increased confusion”. Not quite so bad then. He also writes: “Of equal scandal to the theological drift of the Episcopal Church into a kind of uncommitted unitarianism” I might know something about this. The Episcopal Church is not even at the stage of Channing’s writings, never mind anything recognisable as unitarian beyond that. It is an easy label to chuck at the Episcopalians,… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

Canon Dr. Sugden has posted “Not schism but revolution” on Anglican Mainstream:

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=2046

MJ
Guest
MJ

Do the Conservative forces actually think they can replace TEC as a coherent, viable alternative? There is no way they will be able to hold together – the theological rift between them is just too wide. And some are realising this: http://fatherjohnheidt.blogspot.com/2007/08/what-really-divdes-us.html “At a recent meeting of the Society of the Holy Cross, the Moderator of the Network of Episcopal Dioceses, Bishop Robert Duncan, re-assured the some forty priests gathered there that Anglo-Catholics would certainly have a recognized and respected place in whatever new Anglican structures should develop within this country. His understanding and defense of our position was clear… Read more »

Hugh of Lincoln
Guest
Hugh of Lincoln

There are a couple of hundred reports from the world’s media, but not the Anglican Communion website. Perhaps the AC office regards these consecrations as extra-Communion affairs, not really newsworthy. They report instead on the Episcopal Church’s relief of communities affected by Katrina. That’s what I call caring for the flock – practical help. What Anglicans should be doing – not obsessing over the private life of a New England bishop. This whole idea of temporary, virtual bishops is rather puzzling. Doesn’t a bishop represent a geographical area with a kathedra? Are the ordinations and confirmations performed by Atwood and… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Of equal scandal to the theological drift of the Episcopal Church into a kind of uncommitted unitarianism”

How much would I LOVE to see Mr. Carey (et al) *sued* . . . by the Unitarians! (“How DARE you lump those primitive trinitarian Episcopalians in with us?!”) *LOL*

Jerry Hannon
Guest
Jerry Hannon

Would anyone be able to advise the identities of the nine Provinces whose Primates reportedly attended (and some may have participated in) the episcopal consecration, in Kenya, of the schismatic Americans?

While we know a few names cited in various articles, I would prefer knowledge to speculation about the others.

Certainly I would expect, based upon public comments over the past six or so months, that the attendees would not have included Brasil, Canada, England, Ireland, Mexico, Scotland, South Africa, Wales, or the USA.

Steven
Guest
Steven

Pluralist: What I found most remarkable about Carey’s article is found close to its end, where he seems to mostly be objecting to the consecration of extraterritorial bishops because the Africans didn’t wait until after September 30th. Seemingly, he thinks they are jumping the gun, but that the same actions would be understandable and permissible after the 30th. As no one expects TEC to change course, I guess the obvious response from the Africans would be why wait? Perhaps Carey believes that the appearance of comity and mutual respect must be retained until the appointed deadline–i.e., the forms must be… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

Carey writes: “Some kind of alternative oversight scheme should surely have been worked out which responded to the need of those congregations.” Such a plan was proposed and was quickly rejected by those for whom it was designed. If your ultimate aim is to set up an alternate Anglican presence in the US and to steal all the property you can squat in, then no plan of oversight could possibly do. That’s clearly been the real aim all along – power and property. See – sigh, again – see Jim Naughton’s ‘Follow the Money’ analyses posted on the Diocese of… Read more »

Andrew Carey
Guest
Andrew Carey

Steven, these sorts of actions – preferably a united response – might become needful if it is revealed that the Windsor Process has absolutely no teeth whatsoever. So the timing is important but I am critical also of the tactics. Why are more bishops felt to be the solution? Why are provinces separately consecrating? Sadly, this points to division among the Primates as much as it does to division among US conservatives.

Pluralist
Guest

This article by Chris Sugden should be highlighted. It is clearly a call to arms. In Big Brother style, here’s its best bits: http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=2046 Not schism but revolution the Communion has been increasingly under the dominance of leadership which is over-influenced by the assumptions of western intellectual culture through the dominant role of the Church of England and ECUSA. People are now saying publicly that this unrepresentative dominance must end. In other words, since the Archbishop of Canterbury has not provided for the safe oversight of the orthodox in the United States, he has forfeited his role as the one… Read more »

Andrew Innes
Guest
Andrew Innes

“American males who are homosexually active have a life span that is three decades shorter than the norm,” Atwood said Wednesday. “How can a church say, ‘You are precious, we care about you, we love you, we want the best for you and now we want to bless behaviors that cause you to die three decades early’?” How disingenuous or ignorant of Bill Attwood,not sure which – because, of course, if the Church offered gay people the opportunity and encouragement to form loving, committed, life-long relationships, then young gay people would not engage in the high-risk activities which tragically shorten… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

A sort of figleaf of legitimacy for these consecrations is that they are “temporary” until TEC falls into line (for oversight). But this is with weeks to go before these people could justify the consecrations on a different footing – they could have waited a few weeks. The simplest explanation is that they knew TEC would not submit to international oversight – knowing the General Convention system – plus decisions that it could not break. There will be those who do think there might be a Communion process, and it can stop change. Others simply want no change, full stop,… Read more »

Jerry Hannon
Guest
Jerry Hannon

As to the Provinces represented by their Primates, with a note that Nigeria was represented by another Archbishop, the Boston Globe story indicates the following at the Kenyan consecrations: Central Africa; Indian Ocean; Kenya; Nigeria; Rwanda; Southern Cone; Uganda; West Africa; and West Indies. Are there really any surprises here? This would seem to represent a summation of the future split-off from the Anglican Communion; originally I thought that would simply be the Nigerian Communion, but with Uganda and Kenya jockeying for their own slice of the pie, one wonders who will be in charge in the store windows, and… Read more »

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“the Communion has been increasingly under the dominance of leadership which is over-influenced by the assumptions of western intellectual culture through the dominant role of the Church of England and ECUSA. People are now saying publicly that this unrepresentative dominance must end.”

I guess it’s time to recognize that the actual opponent here is not liberals or gay people but our dedication to reason, science and reality.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

This post Colonial language would make some sense (and have corresponding credibility) if it were not for the fact that all these angry old men are British (some of them living on other continents ;=)

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Steven wrote: “Seemingly, he thinks they are jumping the gun, but that the same actions would be understandable and permissible after the 30th.”

Very amusing that one.

“Pre-emptive action” is the word of the Game…

(and of this Age ;=)

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

“American males who are homosexually active have a life span that is three decades shorter than the norm,” Atwood said Wednesday. “How can a church say, ‘You are precious, we care about you, we love you, we want the best for you and now we want to bless behaviors that cause you to die three decades early’?”

Following that line of reasoning, guess we can count out the self-created victims of obesity as well, eh Atwood?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_YvDVwol-LzA/RtdZT4F9xII/AAAAAAAAASs/rYTHixhj4Bc/s1600-h/art.kenya.ap.jpg

Perry Butler
Guest
Perry Butler

I suspect SE Asia would want to align themselves with Akinola et al.and perhaps Congo. But i think ++Central Africa is soon to retire, and is likely to be replaced by someone more moderate. I cant somehow see the West indies breaking from Canterbury, nor West Africa.Some other provinces could well split-the tiny S Cone cd see a parting of the ways with Uruguay and P.eru declaring UDI Its interesting that Burundi seems to keep out of this despite the obvious cultural/linguistic background it shares with Rwanda.The result will be general fragmentation , Im sure. How it will affect the… Read more »

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Well the empirical research will hardly stop dead in its tracks, just because the new Bishop Atwood or somebody else is too busy grabbing for holier than thou neo-Cromwellian power over others to bother reading it. Ditto, other best practice iterations of scholarly investigation. Perhaps in the end, this realignment rightwing business will more or less be akin to the international Scopes Monkey Trial of our era, as it continues to publish and expose its disdain for facts, its rather facile disdain for our modern tool kit of best practices investigation and hypothesis testing, along with its utter disdain for… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Guest
Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico

Canon Mark Harris kindly requests that +Bishop Gomez says adios:

http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2007/08/time-to-go-archbishop-gomez-leave-with.html

I agree, it’s time for ++Gomez to stop listening to the sound of his own voice.

Graham Ward
Guest
Graham Ward

Perry Butler said “I suspect SE Asia would want to align themselves with Akinola et al.and perhaps Congo….Some other provinces could well split-the tiny S Cone cd see a parting of the ways with Uruguay and P.eru declaring UDI”

If the push comes to the shove, I think the same may be true of S E Asia. Whilst Singapore and Sabah may choose to align themselves with an Akinolaite schism, I would be surprised to see Kuching break communion with Canterbury, and doubt that West Malaysia would either.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

The Canon Dr concluded there is a change in leadership. I would say we have been seing a lack of leadership (very “cultural”, that one ;=)

What would have happened if the Archbishop of Canterbury had engaged with the legacy of his predessessor, instead of ignoring it?

liddon
Guest
liddon

Perry Butler and Graham Ward conjecture which provinces might hive off. Let them go. Who cares where the homophobes are as long as they don’t destroy the Anglican Communion.

Graham Ward
Guest
Graham Ward

Maybe I care more than most; my family’s links with the Dioceses which now make up the Province of SE Asia go back almost half a century, my wife is a Malaysian Anglican, we were married in Sabah by the last Archbishop, and have just returned from a holiday there visiting family and friends. The point being that to me the Anglican Church in the so-called Global South is more than a pawn in a political game. It is individual Christian souls, it is family, it is friends. Most of them are deeply conservative – products of the society in… Read more »

liddon
Guest
liddon

cynthia writes:

Carey writes: “Some kind of alternative oversight scheme should surely have been worked out which responded to the need of those congregations.”

It is exactly because John Habgood persuaded the General Synod to pass the Act of Synod which allowed flying bishops for those who opposed women’s ordinationthat we are in this mess now. The nonsensical wheeze of ‘alternative episcopal oversight’ was never dreamed of before that. It has no place in the Church and the Act should be repealed immediately. What we want is not more authorised flying bishops but none at all.

Simon Sarmiento
Guest

Jerry Hannon was asking about who exactly the primates attending were: so here is a list quoted from a report by Hank Steenstra on Stand Firm, who was there: Among the assembled throng were nine primates of the Anglican Communion or their representatives. Those personally present included Archbishops Benjamin Nzimbi (Kenya), Henry Orombi (Uganda), Emmanuel Kolini (Rwanda), Gregory Venables (Southern Cone), Drexel Gomez (West Indies), Bernard Malango (Central Africa), Justice Akrofi (West Africa) and Ian Ernest (Indian Ocean). Archbishop Peter Akinola (Nigeria) was represented by Archbishop Nicholas Okoh. Total support but regrets for being unable to attend came from Archbishop… Read more »

L Roberts
Guest
L Roberts

It is exactly because John Habgood persuaded the General Synod to pass the Act of Synod which allowed flying bishops for those who opposed women’s ordinationthat we are in this mess now. The nonsensical wheeze of ‘alternative episcopal oversight’ was never dreamed of before that. It has no place in the Church and the Act should be repealed immediately. What we want is not more authorised flying bishops but none at all. Posted by: liddon on Monday, 3 September 2007 at 9:10am BST Is the time approaching to do away with bishops altogether? Or at the very least the so-called… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“American males who are homosexually active have a life span that is three decades shorter than the norm,” Atwood said Wednesday.” This is no small matter. We have had, in the last four months, these exact statements made here, with no attempt to retract them. Now, decisions are not being made on the basis of such propaganda, but attitudes are bolstered as a result of it, the “faithful are whipped up into higher states of self-righteousness, and it is absolutely disgusting for Christian leaders to be quoting these lies as though they were truth. They should be taken to task… Read more »