Thinking Anglicans

New Orleans: press reports Wednesday morning

Guardian Stephen Bates US bishops offer lifeline in effort to keep world Anglican church intact

Telegraph Jonathan Petre For now, US Anglicans give in to Archbishop

The Times Ruth Gledhill Bishops reject same-sex blessings

New York Times Neela Banerjee Episcopal Bishops Reject Anglican Church’s Orders

Associated Press Rachel Zoll Episcopal Leaders Try to Avoid Schism and earlier Bishops Pledge Restraint on Gay Bishops

Chicago Tribune Manya A. Brachear Episcopals give ground on gay bishops

New Orleans Times-Picayune Bruce Nolan Episcopal bishops decline to roll back inclusion of gays

Living Church Steve Waring Bishops Conclude Meeting With Response to Primates

Episcopal News Service Pat McCaughan and Mary Frances Schjonberg Bishops provide ‘clarity’ in response to Primates’ communiqué and also Matthew Davies ACC, Primates Joint Standing Committee adjourns, initiates report to Archbishop of Canterbury

National Public Radio Bishops Move to Ease Concerns on Homosexuality

Reuters Bruce Nichols Episcopal Church to urge restraint on gay bishops

20
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
20 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
11 Comment authors
Ford ElmsTommyPat O'NeillCal McMillanMalcolm+ Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
NP
Guest
NP

Unseemly and misleading dig at ++Venables from Bates.

Why mention this, Mr Bates?
Are you trying to impply the man is a lightweight or would not have risen above curate if he had remained in England???

Disappointing more than anything else to see Bates ending his “religion” era with this kind of attack……

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

Sorry to see the New York Times get the lead wrong. But it did say

“Bishops in New Orleans said the Dar es Salaam communiqué galvanized them, despite their differing views on homosexuality, largely because of what they considered efforts by foreign primates to interfere in the life of the Episcopal Church.”

Oddly, if incursions were meant to push the bishops to “repent” it has had the opposite affect. And simply marginalized those who have participated. Hopefully, the same will be true in the AC as well.

Neil
Guest
Neil

Re Venables – sounds accurate to me. He and his scheming cohorts in the CofE (who themsleves never became bishops) have done incalculable damage. The fact that Venables only has 20000 in his province is neither here nor there. Even a little poison goes a long way – as do acts of kindness and charity.

NP
Guest
NP

Neil – if you knew the history, you would know that many vicars of the largest churches in the CofE turned down opportunities to become bishops because they had so much to do in their parishes…..and they thought it more important work. I think they were mistaken as this left others to fill the void but their intentions were good….focussed on pastoring their people rather than church politics. It is quite a lot of work leading a CofE church with a couple of thousand people in it (and allows much less time for talking on synods and committees – the… Read more »

Alan Harrison
Guest
Alan Harrison

The remark about +Venables does seem a bit pointed! As it happens, I’m godfather to the daughter of a bishop who also “never rose above the status of curate” in the C of E and whose diocese is numerically small but geographically large. That’s because he left the parish in which I then worshipped to become rector of a church in Scotland, where he has remained ever since.

More importantly, the conflicting interpretations of these journalists leave me totally confused about what happened.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“focussed on pastoring their people”

Bishops, of course, not being pastors! Also, on another thread you indicate that for you the search for a bishop is really just an election campaign. Where do you get this stuff?

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

Bates says – “Canon Gregory Cameron, the communion’s senior negotiator, said: “It has become clear to me there is a wider range of opinion in the American house of bishops than there is in the communion as a whole.”

Would he be speaking about the TEC moderates who are willing to agree to disagree and do not find this all to be about”core doctrine?”

Tommy
Guest
Tommy

The product from the HOB could not be more disheartening. So now the HOB has told all of us who took encouragement in the consecration of Bishop Robinson, those of us who heard a message of full acceptance and welcome from a church for the first time in our lives, that it was just a big mistake and must not be repeated. Will this make the secessionists happy? No. The secessionist will leave anyway because that is what they want to do. It’s always been about power for them not scripture or community. The irony of timing makes comparison with… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

Concerning Presiding Bishop Venables qualification to be metropolitan of a province of 20,000 or so souls (Mark Harris recently estimated it more charitably at around 30,000, but even this is small enough make the Southern Cone of minimal importance to those wedded to the “size matters” school of province ranking), no-one can accuse Bp Venables of being an “academic like the ABC”. His entry on the AC’s website lists his completed higher education as a 1974 CertEd. I say “completed higher education” since Bp. Venables is currently affiliated with Christ Church College Canterbury – this is also listed on his… Read more »

Paul Davison
Guest
Paul Davison

Here is a thoroughly unofficial point of view. First, remember that in the Episcopal Church, the Bishops acting alone (that is, in the absence of the House of Deputies in General Convention) have no legislative powers. They could not create a binding canonical provision to make a person in a same sex relationship ineligible to be a bishop. They could promise as individuals not to vote to consecrate persons who present a challenge to the wider church. They did that. It isn’t legally binding and doesn’t bind their successors, but that was as far as it goes and as far… Read more »

Neil
Guest
Neil

Fair comment in general about bishops in the CofE NP, and there seeming to be more important pastoral jobs to get on with. However, I am not sure Venables would have even reached any short-list in the CofE so I think Bates is within his rights.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“Meanwhile the leaders of the gay community find this action disgraceful, a capitulation to bigotry and hatred.” Good thing I’m not a leader, then, I’m just one of the rank and file who really doesn’t see that allowing me to get married in the Church is such a great thing, who believes that marriage isn’t actually about validating anybody’s relationships, despite how it has been used for centuries, who really does not believe that the Church’s unwillingness to marry me constitutes anything even vaguely close to oppression, certainly not comparable to that experienced by gay people in some parts of… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Ford – well, so many bishops are not pastors…are they? And it is TEC that thinks bishops should be elected, not me.

In your haste to attack me, you do not have a word of defence for ++Venables? I though you would not like the unnecessary comment on him.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“you do not have a word of defence for ++Venables?” Touche! Not “rising” above one’s station is immaterial. Who was the patriarch who was chosen as a layman? One of the biggies, one of the Greats, but I can’t remember his name. Perhaps the British didn’t appreciate what they had, perhaps they darned well knew! As to election, you see, old man, the point is that the Church tries to hear the voice of the Spirit in who She should make a bishop. In North America, we tend, wtih our more or less democratic background, to think the Spirit speaks… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

maybe, Ford, it shows the worldiness I see in certain people / groups with their own agendas fighting elections to gain power as bishops

Malcolm+
Guest
Malcolm+

Ford comments: “may soon happen in Nigeria, they already want to jail us there” Actually, Ford, they already can jail you in Nigeria. The Act which Akinola disgracefully endorsed did not make homosexual acts illegal since they already are. But his new legislation would have me go to jail with you for being your friend. And I’d still be your friend despite the risk. On the matter of lay patriarchs, I’m not sure who you mean, but the traditional story of St. Ambrose is that he was not even baptised when chosen as Bishop of Milan. And NP – electing… Read more »

Cal McMillan
Guest
Cal McMillan

Significantly, ENS reports that Bishop Salmon [South Carolina], albeit with some expected reservation, is promising to “do his best to make the statement work.” Hopefully, it reflects a sober acknowledgment of a new level of good faith within HoB, enabling his far-reaching response. Something similar is what I now hope for from the temperate majority of the Primates – now that TEC has yet again clarified its clarity.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“And it is TEC that thinks bishops should be elected, not me.”

Yeah, we dumb old Americans, thinking that maybe the people should have a voice in who leads them, even religiously.

But, you see, that’s the whole point of “the Historic Episcopate, locally adapted in the methods of its administration to the varying needs of the nations and peoples called of God into the Unity of His Church” (Lambeth, 1888).

You’re supposed to be the traditionalist around here, NP–what’s wrong, 120 years of tradition isn’t sufficient for you?

Tommy
Guest
Tommy

“…I’m just one…who really does not believe that the Church’s unwillingness to marry me constitutes anything even vaguely close to oppression…” I understand Mr. Elms. I know well the level of barbaric oppression gay Africans suffer. I know it is not on par with the struggle for North American gay rights. You conflate two separate issues. The policies of African and Middle Eastern cultures leading to the oppression and murder of gay people are ghastly. It must, and I pray it will change. That does not mean we are obliged to tolerate lesser or more subtle forms of bigotry and… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“certain people / groups with their own agendas fighting elections to gain power as bishops” Like the Evangelicals in a recent Episcopal election in a Canadian diocese who, despite repeated votes in which their candidate did not come anywhere close to a majority, kept him on the ballot, and gathered around him in prayer between votes (?nevertheless, not Thy will but mine be done?) forcing the proroguing of Synod and a new election six months later? And Tommy, you are absolutely right that bigotry is bigotry, but I find it offensive, quite frankly, and weakening of our position, when I… Read more »