Thinking Anglicans

Joint Standing Committee reacts to New Orleans

The Anglican Communion News Service reports today as follows.

House of Bishops Meeting in New Orleans

The Joint Standing Committee of the Anglican Consultative Council and the Primates of the Anglican Communion have now submitted their Report on The Episcopal Church House of Bishops of Meeting in New Orleans. The Archbishop of Canterbury has sent the Report to all the Primates and to all members of the Anglican Consultative Council and asked them to consult in their Provinces on the Report, and respond to him by the end of October.

A PDF of the Report can be found here. It’s quite long (19 pages).

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
122 Comments
Oldest
Newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
C.B.
C.B.
13 years ago

Archbishops Anis and Orombi (? who refused to attend in N.O.) did not sign the statement. Clearly, there is a line being drawn in the sand here. Those who want TEC out will not allow the HoB conform to the Windsor Report or the DES Communique in any manner short of total capitulation.

But the JSC Report certainly provides a solid basis for any moderate Primate to find otherwise. As in all political operations – it’s all about the middle. What does the middle want and how large a group does it cover.

We’ll soon find out.

NP
NP
13 years ago

It ain’t a surprise that this liberal dominated committee is bending over backwards to say that TEC(USA) has given an honest, positive response……note, they have not even got all their own committee’s responses in but have put this statement out….why the rush? Seems this committee has not head Bruno and Ely say that ssbs will continue in their areas…… Seems as if they do not know Lind is on the list for Chicago….this proves that TEC(USA) is hardly committed to staying in line with the AC and it is just a matter of time before we have the next VGR… Read more »

Charles Nurse
Charles Nurse
13 years ago

hmm … Interesting.

How are the boundary-crossing Primates going to respond to this.

ettu
ettu
13 years ago

“How are the boundary-crossing Primates going to respond to this” Well we can hope and pray for rejoicing or at least grace on their part but I fear their reaction may be conditioned by rage and anger and self-interest.

C.B.
C.B.
13 years ago

“If the ABC tries to force this JSC view on the AC, he will be pouring petrol on the flames of schism.”

When are you going to get it NP? The ABC can’t control those who want schism. He can only appeal to the higher natures of those who seek reconciliation. This is the appeal the ABC wanted, no doubt prayed for, and got.

Objectivity!! If God had been objective about mankind we’d still be in our sin and spending eternity with Satan. Good grief!!

Pluralist
13 years ago

To start at the end: …With the response of the House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church in September 2007, the Communion should move towards closure on these matters, at least for the time being… I’m not sure how there is closure for the time being – closure ends something and the time being continues on. Nevertheless the JSC report is all positive. …the use of any such rites or liturgies will not in future have the bishop’s authority “until a broader consensus emerges in 18 the Communion, or until General Convention takes further action… On this basis, we understand… Read more »

Davis d'Ambly
Davis d'Ambly
13 years ago

“Seems as if they do not know Lind is on the list for Chicago” NP

There are lots of names on lists. For those who do not understand – We Do Not Appoint our Bishops – they are elected.

The matter of consents is another question altogether.

Richard Lyon
Richard Lyon
13 years ago

This report strikes me as being much more moderate in tone than the communique that came out of Dar Es alam. Assuming that this report accurately reflects the prevailing sentiments in the broader communion, it would indicate that Rowan Williams completely lost control of that meeting of the primates group. This is a time when the Anglican Communion needs a leader with some political talent. It clearly doesn’t have it.

Stephen Roberts
Stephen Roberts
13 years ago

If the ‘fucrum’ analysis is objective, I’m a dutchman!

Now the die is cast, we’ll see the fight for what it really is – temporal power and material wealth.

Rob Leduc
Rob Leduc
13 years ago

I think it is too much to say the struggle is merely about temporal power and wealth. I think, however, that the extreme right has been listening to and believing too much of their own blogosphere hype. The original demands were that TEC not ordain gay bishops in partnerships and not permit same-sex blessings. From that they went on to spin a fantasy of ‘Anglican Realignment’ that was going to somehow be larger than the splits that occurred over the prayerbook and women’s ordination, and somehow be received officially by Canterbury. Now TEC has essentially given in to the original… Read more »

Malcolm+
Malcolm+
13 years ago

NP said: “this liberal dominated committee”

The height of hypocrisy. The “conservatives” refuse to be part of the discussion, then they whinge because the committee is “liberal dominated.”

Here is an iron clad rule, NP. Decisions are made by the people who stay to the end of the meeting.

And by the same token, those who didn’t bother to attend should stop whinging. They made their choice. They can live with the consequence.

Lapinbizarre
Lapinbizarre
13 years ago

The bishops have no say in the nomination of Lind for Chicago, NP. The selection of candidates for bishop is a diocesan-level decision in the US. Where they do have a say is in the matter of consent – a chosen candidate cannot be consecrated or enthroned without the consent of a majority of sitting members of the HoB. The bishops have undertaken not to consent to the consecration/installation of an active gay bishop. That which was asked of them, they have given. Simple enough? While I’m here, some at this and other (especially “other”) sites complain that same-sex blessings… Read more »

Andrew
Andrew
13 years ago

This is an excellent outcome. Richard Lyon’s comment is wrong about +++Rowan. He is smart, and while things may not have gone well in Tanzania, his skills are evident since. As I have said before, this ABC will never exclude TEC from Communion with him. Stephen Roberts is correct, that the fight really is over power and material wealth, but TEC has the best lawyers in the US, many among its communicants and allies, many of those working pro bono. We will retain our churches and other property. If the Akinolites still move toward schism, they will be creating a… Read more »

Allan
Allan
13 years ago

I tend to agree that this statement appears somewhat self-serving. I think there is no intention in TEC pews (where some real power resides) to step back from Robinson and also same sex blessings. This is partly because the people in the pews are NOT Anglicans in theology, morality or spirit. They are Congregationalists. I know, I serve in one of their parishes. A clear statement from the Communion that there are some things which must be believed – the divinity of Christ for example, or the fact that non-christians are ‘Children of God’ one in a very rare sense… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo
Leonardo Ricardo
13 years ago

Archbishop Anis didn’t have much to offer about the suffering and persecution of LGBT Christians/others in his Province during is speech preach in NO? I recall he mostly whined about his own difficulties with other religious extremists after being embarrassed with the consecration of +V G Robinson at TEC…he’s not much of a “minister” in my opinion and certainly not a qualified “listener” to anything other than the sound of his own voice…selfish to the dangerous (to others) extreme.

Tommy
Tommy
13 years ago

“The Communion seems to be converging around a position which says that while it is inappropriate to proceed to public Rites of Blessing of same-sex unions and to the consecration of bishops who are living in sexual relationships outside of Christian marriage,…” So are all the current clergy around the world living “outside of Christian marriage” being asked to renounce their Holy Orders, including polygamists and gay priests and bishops? “…we need to take seriously our ministry to gay and lesbian people inside the Church and the ending of discrimination, persecution and violence against them.” “…take seriously…?” Its about time!… Read more »

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

Richard The Communion does have a leader with talent. Sometimes leadership involves allowing dialogue to happen, no matter how extreme or irrelevant it might seem. In playing the cards and allowing the machinations to occur, we are all getting to see how souls operate and the tactics they are prepared to use. Dar Salaam might have seemed like a failure in allowing the break out lobby conference to occur, or in allowing them to move between the two conferences bringing in new decrees, accusations and ultimatums. It might have seemed like a failure to allow them to table only just… Read more »

drdanfee
drdanfee
13 years ago

Well the same dire flaws that affect 1998’s Lambeth 1.10, also affect the Fulcrum and AGoddard comments or views. These are three, mainly. One. Too much in too many pronouncements is the result of past and current conservative campaigns which for the most part claim to be the only believer views possible, while most recently at the same claiming to be an outcast minority in a pagan society. Can we say, self-serving? Manipulative? Odd? Indeed. Two, if Lambeth is the mind of this communion, then the way it came to be passed must also be part of its mindfulness. We… Read more »

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

Page 1-2 they note “Although the tensions within the Anglican Communion will not be resolved until all these matters are addressed, the wider questions, which concern the polity of The Episcopal Church and the provision of pastoral care for those who are alienated by certain recent developments and life, do not form part of the issues which were requested to be addressed by the date set in the schedule of the Primates’ Communique for specific answers on the questions set out below. Those wider matters of pastoral concern remain urgent and are addressed in the second part of our report”… Read more »

Charlotte
Charlotte
13 years ago

A version of my remarks on another blog: It’s now reasonably clear that the Archbishop of Canterbury and the majority in the Communion are not about to push TEC out or recognize the CCP group as a North American province. I’m glad. Yet I’m not sure how I feel about this latest set of developments. I don’t really think the Joint Standing Committee has suddenly swung around toward support for TEC, or full inclusion, or anything of the sort. I think it’s the jurisdiction issue that turned them against Duncan, Minns, and their followers — the multiple African bishops with… Read more »

jnwall
jnwall
13 years ago

Ruth Gledhill claims in her blog that Elizabeth Paver has given a response to the JSC report, but she doesn’t say what Paver said about the report. What did she say in her response?

Margaret
Margaret
13 years ago

I notice there is a lot of speculation about the fact that some people didn’t sign it.

I would be interested in the commentators above views on the process that was used — one that seems to have preferenced the views of the people who had time on their hands — and which disadvantaged those who were busy.

I would also be interested in your views on the probity of the PB Schori’s signature to the report. I would have thought that normal “conflict of interest” approach would have been applied here. Do you think I am wrong?

Viriato da Silva
Viriato da Silva
13 years ago

NP froths, er, frets: “…that is enough for a liberal-dominated committee (surprise, surprise) but it is not what the Primates have asked for (repeatedly).” “The Primates”??? NP, do you honestly think they are all of one mind? They’re not a collective entity like the Borg, y’know. Even the DeS communique’ was drafted by committee and intentionally worded so as to mean different things to different primates. So, when you write “the Primates this” or “the Primates that,” kindly in future be honest enough to admit that what you mean by “the Primates” is really just the 8 Radical Reactionary primates… Read more »

David H.
13 years ago

Steven wrote, “If the ‘fucrum’ analysis is objective, I’m a dutchman!”

Sure it is! Well, for extreme outliers of “objective” at any rate. The same way 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2… 😀

Kendall Harmon
13 years ago

Davis: “Appoint’ is one of those words which gets caught in the crossfire of confusion between American english and English english.

“To determine by authority or agreement” is the sense here. Simon I believe has commented on this before.

Priscilla Ballou
Priscilla Ballou
13 years ago

NP said, “Seems this committee has not hea[r]d Bruno and Ely say that ssbs will continue in their areas……”

Surely same-sex blessings will be continuing wherever they were happening before. That wasn’t ruled out by anything coming out of NOLA.

The toothpaste is not going back into the tube.

Merseymike
Merseymike
13 years ago

Yes, its a compromise, but its probably all that could be broadly agreed upon for the moment. Clearly the issue won’t lie down and go away – but at least if the conservative evangelicals do a bunk, the remainder should at least be able to carve out some sort of reasonable way of working.

Tobias Haller
13 years ago

Margaret, I see nothing sinister in the fact that some people were not able to meet the deadline for a response. ++Anis was able to issue a private statement a few hours after this was published. Perhaps this was his way of garnering a bit of spotlight. He had ample opportunity to make his views known in New Orleans. I find the suggestions (bruited elsewhere) that ++KJS should have “recused” herself to be very strange. First and most importantly, she is not on the JSC representing TEC, rather she was elected by the Primates to represent North America. Second, this… Read more »

Hugh of Lincoln
Hugh of Lincoln
13 years ago

What seems certain now is that there’ll be no official Primates’ Meeting between now and Lambeth while there is a semblance of peace, reconciliation and compromise across the divide, at least amongst moderates. What’s troubling is the use of the word “convergence”, as if this is a permanent shift away from full inclusion for LGBT. I agree with Tommy on this. However, if the listening process is allowed to progress, this “convergence” ought to move in a more progressive direction until such a time as a new consensus emerges about gay blessings and bishops. We might wait forever with that… Read more »

Margaret
Margaret
13 years ago

Thank you Tobias for your response to my post. I found two points it is that I could not quite understand so would you mind expanding further– 1. You say: “as the assent was unanimous (apart from those who were not able to respond)” The point has been made on other websites that some who would dissent notified the JSC that they would need (an incredibly short) amount of time to put their view forward. I wonder what you think of the fact that the JSC considered this to be an issue where such (incredibly short) time period could not… Read more »

Margaet
Margaet
13 years ago

I notice that your site, unlike either Standfirm or Titusonenine, preselects the comments that goes on to ensure against malicious behaviour.

I wonder how come this site (and most of the other sites that approve of the Episcopal Church of USA’s position, have to do this, when the malicious comments on both the other sites are treated as par for the course. Are they just more tolerant and accepting of diversity?

Fr Joseph O'Leary
13 years ago

“Rowan Williams completely lost control of that meeting of the primates group. This is a time when the Anglican Communion needs a leader with some political talent. It clearly doesn’t have it.” Actually, no. Rowan Williams — though making a strong plea for recognition of TEC fidelity — allowed the primates to express themselves as they saw fit in Dar Es Salaam — how could he bring them to heel by some kind of papal fiat? Now he has midwived the responses of the wider communion in the same fashion, and they greatly modify the myopic results of Dar Es… Read more »

Ben W
Ben W
13 years ago

To read this report is to recognize that the aim is more to placate than to hear the call to rethink direction. On the one hand there is regret about having caused pain by “our actions” on the other there will be retraint “for now.” How could this be seen as serious reponse to Windsor or the to the Arican bishops’ call of loyalty to “Anglican history and teaching??” Has the TEC become so blinkered in view as not not to sense the deepening alienation with other provinces, and in wider way between western culture and the places where most… Read more »

Jerry Hannon
Jerry Hannon
13 years ago

Allan posted: “I think there is no intention in TEC pews (where some real power resides) to step back from Robinson and also same sex blessings. This is partly because the people in the pews are NOT Anglicans in theology, morality or spirit. They are Congregationalists. I know, I serve in one of their parishes.” Brilliant. ALL Episcopalians must be “Congregationalists” because that is what Allan believes about, apparently, all of the parishioners in his own Episcopal Church parish (though I doubt that is even correct about ALL of the parishioners in his parish). If we are using that bit… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
13 years ago

Margaret wrote: “I would be interested in the commentators above views on the process that was used — one that seems to have preferenced the views of the people who had time on their hands — and which disadvantaged those who were busy.”

There is NO WAY that a person elected to a committee hasn’t got “time” for the work of that committee. NO WAY.

(and that should answer your second question, too)

Göran Koch-Swahne
13 years ago

Kendal Harmon wrote: “Appoint’ is one of those words which gets caught in the crossfire of confusion between American english and English english.”

No it isn’t. It speaks to 16th and especially 17th century Absolutism.

It means the unilateral action of a Sovereign promoting his favourites to High Office to impose His special agendas on the Church (e.g. Charles XI:s idea of Supper on Good Friday), as opposed to the Calling of the Church Confirmed by the Head of State, which is the traditional Western approach to express a Consensus.

NP
NP
13 years ago

You guys noticed that +Jerusalem has already distanced himself very strongly from this JSC report which bends over backwards only to see the positive in the HOB response??? And – before you get too excited, this is just a report from one committee (and not even all the members of the JSC!)…….. it is not accepted by the AC (yet). The ABC and Lambeth Palace politicians may be able to sell the TEC and JSC fudge if there are enough people who (after 4 years) do not have any more stomach for conflict……but that would be putting a sticking plaster… Read more »

Neil
Neil
13 years ago

‘And – before you get too excited, this is just a report from one committee (and not even all the members of the JSC!)…….. it is not accepted by the AC (yet).’

Tee hee! Just like Lambeth 1.10 🙂

Couldn’t resist this one NP, even though I see you are completely out of your depth and under fire on other threads, and really feel for you…though you started it and people respond! Greek lessons soon?

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

Margaret There have been attempts to “flood” TA -that’s why the word count came in. One of the other differences is that you can’t edit away your mistakes once published (the main reason I use TA). The other thing is that many other forums simply delete “non suitable” postings. For example, I found out a few months ago that my over 600+ postings from Sydney Anglicans had been removed, which followed quite some time after they simply banning me from posting at all because I refused to stop talking about prophecy, or the fight between good and evil. I could… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
13 years ago

Margaret wrote: “I would be interested in the commentators above views on the process that was used — one that seems to have preferenced the views of the people who had time on their hands — and which disadvantaged those who were busy.” Is Margaret making oblique references to Andrew Goddard and all the other pundits who managed to publish their copious “advice” to the Primates even before the JSC published their statement? Bishop Anis had access to all the documentation and working papers of the JSC – his view quite clearly did not fit the report agreed by the… Read more »

Stephen Roberts
Stephen Roberts
13 years ago

NP – “You guys noticed that +Jerusalem has already distanced himself very strongly from this JSC report”.

Yes, I have and I must change my earlier analysis. It isn’t just about temporal power and material wealth, it’s about an ability to reach Key Stage 4 in English Language.

That’s because the following “analysis” process was followed:-

1. Load HoB response into Microsoft Word.
2. Search “moratorium”.
3. Word has finished searching the document. The search item was not found.
4. Conclusion – TEC are non-compliant.
5. Fire up the start new schism wizard and let fly.

Lapinbizarre
Lapinbizarre
13 years ago

I notice that your site, unlike either Standfirm or Titusonenine, preselects the comments that goes on to ensure against malicious behaviour …..Are they just more tolerant and accepting of diversity?”

No doubt it’s StandFirm’s celebrated tolerance and acceptance of diversity, Margaret – witness their attitude towards gays, PB Schori and anyone else they happen to disagree with. They also delete “undesirable” comments after they have been posted. But thanks for the laugh.

NP
NP
13 years ago

Neil – no, not like Lambeth 1.10……. that was voted for by a majority of the bishops of the AC…..I know you and others want to pretend it did not happen, but it did!

Don’t feel sorry for me….except I am quite tired after a late night at church with lots of new people interested in learning about the gospel.

Merseymike
Merseymike
13 years ago

Not to mention, Margaret, the number of liberals who have been banned from that site – in fact, all regular liberal contributors end up being banned. In my case it was because I had my own blog and could give my views there!

C.B.
C.B.
13 years ago

Margaret appears to be a prime example of a clueless reasserter who has absolutely no insight into or appreciation for what it’s like as a gay Christian to read and post comments in the Anglican blogsphere (much less operate in the world).

Not only are the progressive sites “flooded” with bile and personal attacks against gays if they are not moderated, but conservative sites routinely ban progressives for offering countering positions – I could list a half dozen who post here who I have watched be banned from one or another of those sites.

badman
badman
13 years ago

The leadership of the Anglican Communion puts unity first – that’s official, the Archbishop of Canterbury has said it and every single step (including blunders) taken at the highest level from Lambeth 1998 onwards has been driven by that imperative. Unity, unity, unity. Even Archbishop Anis does not disassociate himself from the bits in the JSC report which say that Primates who send bishops into the USA without permission from the local bishop are completely out of order. The reason the conservatives are losing the argument now is not because they are wrong (although I think they are) but because… Read more »

MJ
MJ
13 years ago

An interesting survey here on attitudes towards Christianity in America by 16-29 yr olds. Perhaps Simon might give this study some prominence? Definitely one in the eye for conservatives. http://www.barna.org:80/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=280 Important bits: “As the nation’s culture changes in diverse ways, one of the most significant shifts is the declining reputation of Christianity, especially among young Americans. A new study by The Barna Group conducted among 16- to 29-year-olds shows that a new generation is more skeptical of and resistant to Christianity than were people of the same age just a decade ago.” “One of the groups hit hardest by the… Read more »

NP
NP
13 years ago

badman says “Even Archbishop Anis does not disassociate himself from the bits in the JSC report…”

Do try and “see the wood for the trees”, badman

It ain’t convincing to look for crumbs of comfort which suit your case….do aknowledge the main point the Archbishop is making which is TEC HOB’s response is yet more doublespeak and therefore not trustworthy

Martin Reynolds
13 years ago

It seems to us that TEC’s new polity now appears to be that of the Church of England.

What a pitiful and sudden moral decline this shows in TEC – I hope conservatives will not let them get away with it …………

MJ
MJ
13 years ago

The Report has now been adjusted – http://www.aco.org/acc/docs/JSC%20Report%20on%20New%20Orleans%20071003.pdf – Elizabeth Paver is now listed as having assented. +Anis is listed as dissenting and his submission is attached as an addendum. Philippa Amable (West Africa)and Jolly Babirukamu (Uganda) are still listed having not yet reponded, but since both are heavily involved in peace and justice and/or women’s rights issues, I wouldn’t bet on a negative simply from their provincial origin. Jolly Babirukamu said previously that she “was attending the House of Bishops and JSC meetings as an individual and at the invitation of the Archbishop of Canterbury, and was not representing… Read more »

122
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x