Thinking Anglicans

more on Draft Covenant responses

Updated midday

The Church Times reports on this:
C of E told it cannot cede power to Primates by Pat Ashworth

For convenience, here are links to recent responses from various provinces:

Church of England

Church of Ireland (PDF)

Episcopal Church, USA

Anglican Church of Canada

Updates
There is also comment on the English response by Church Society see here.

Religious Intelligence has Articles are ‘too much’ by Nick Mackenzie.

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Pluralist
13 years ago

When I went to vote in the admittedly rather pointless vote whether the Covenant is the best way to achieve Anglican unity, 226 votes had been cast with 94% against.

drdanfee
drdanfee
13 years ago

Well Anglican approaches to ethics and theology and hermeneutics and harmonizing with empirical sciences are each, and all, way too important to leave them entirely up to the Primates Meeting. I wonder when was the last time some of the Primates currently ensconced even happened to read a peer reviewed science journal? I still think the Chicago Lambeth Quad is sufficient covenant statement, and that if we cannot pray and gather and witness and serve across our hot button differences, no covenant then will serve. One of the key covenant considerations which most excites many con evo realignment commentators –… Read more »

Malcolm+
13 years ago

In case anyone didn’t follow pluralist’s meaning, there is a poll at the end of the Church Times article with the question: Is the Anglican Covenant the best way to achieve unity?

At 11:00 CST, the results were:

Yes – 7%
No – 93%
Total Votes – 350

Of course, self-selcting online polls are utterly unreliable as an actual measure of opinion since the samples are not random.

L Roberts
L Roberts
13 years ago

Yes, the C of E and the AC are inexorably moving towards greater pluralism and diversity. No surprise there ! Even the most conservative orthodox Bible-centred groups have conceded to the sporit of the age –that of pluralism–how could it be otherwise ? Everytine they exclude another body they drive another nail in the coffin of (their own ) theological and ethical exclusivity. They KNOW theirs is one viewpoint among many. The *idol of their dreams* is unobtainable, given the force of human creativity and will to life. * e.g. Even Geo Carey knows from his own family life that… Read more »

Prior Aelred
13 years ago

I appreciate the links to other responses — a good way to refresh one’s memory — I see some of the same concerns about the nature of a covenant, the place of the 39 Articles & the 1662 BCP & the role of the Primates. Perhaps the “guidance” of the Primates will be seen as more pastoral & respectful of different cultural settings once the GAFCON primates have set their own church, separate from the Anglican Communion. Reluctant as I am to play the game of “identified patient”, they really do seem to be the bullies on the playground &… Read more »

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

drdanfee made a comment and possibly didn’t realise it incorporated humour “I wonder when was the last time some of the Primates currently ensconced even happened to read a peer reviewed science journal?” Schori was a scientist before she was a minister. The irony is gorgeous. Plus, one of my fun tactics in the last few years is demonstrating that God encapsulates all of space and time, so therefore there is nothing in Creation that is a threat to God. God existed before this earth, before humanity, before literacy, before the Torah, before Jesus. God will continue to exist long… Read more »

L Roberts
L Roberts
13 years ago

Correction :

I did of course mean to say that an occupant of Canterbury can NOT canter away with the Church of England. He or she cannot hand it over to the primates or any other cabal. Nor can he force us to think or do as he wishes !

PS

Dont let them abolish parsons’ freehold — it serves a bital purpose !!

(Me and my typos !)

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
13 years ago

“Is the Anglican Covenant the best way to achieve unity?” The Anglican Communion already has unity – we are all in communion with the ABC. That’s a good thing. I think that some may be saying ‘unity’ when their agenda is ‘unanimnity.’ We can and do have the former without the latter. We do not have unanimnity over divorce and remarriage, over the place of women in Holy Orders, over the death penalty, over liturgy and the Prayer Book, over music for worship, over a great many other issues, both within and among the provinces. Why not over the place… Read more »

Kurt
Kurt
13 years ago

“Reluctant as I am to play the game of “identified patient”, they really do seem to be the bullies on the playground & their departure would mean a return to mutual respect for cultural diversity & “big tent” Anglicanism (IMHO).”— Prior Aelred

I agree, Prior. It was only after the departure of Bishop Cummins et. al. in the 1870s that American Anglo-Catholicism and Low Church theological liberalism really began to flourish.

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

Kurt

Do you want to expand on that Bishop Cummins comment, or refer us to a site that does?

Those of us with non-American roots might find it both interesting and inspiring. As well, it might inspire within America as a “brushed under the carpet to be forgotten” piece of history comes back to light (a bit like the Black Noir legislation dynamics did a while ago).

John Bassett
John Bassett
13 years ago

So, if the legal office of the Synod says that the decisions of the Primates cannot be binding upon the Church of England, then it makes no sense for any other province of the Church to be bound by these decisions. And that really is the end of the covenant, isn’t it?

Pisco Sours
13 years ago

Cheryl, I believe Kurt is referring to the schism and formation of the Reformed Episcopal Church in 1873.

Hugh of Lincoln
Hugh of Lincoln
13 years ago

In practice, what is the difference between “give direction” and “offer guidance”? Although the Primates Meeting merely offers guidance, it uses coercive tactics, which amounts to giving “direction”, in relation to TEC’s policy on gay bishops and blessings. If it is unlawful to “give direction”, why is it not unlawful to “offer guidance”, when this is the same thing in reality? It’s just a clever play on words.

Kurt
Kurt
13 years ago

“Do you want to expand on that Bishop Cummins comment, or refer us to a site that does? Those of us with non-American roots might find it both interesting and inspiring. As well, it might inspire within America as a “brushed under the carpet to be forgotten” piece of history comes back to light (a bit like the Black Noir legislation dynamics did a while ago).”— Cheryl Va. Clough “Cheryl, I believe Kurt is referring to the schism and formation of the Reformed Episcopal Church in 1873.”—Pisco Sours Pisco is correct, Cheryl. Below you will find documents pro et contra… Read more »

Prior Aelred
13 years ago

Hugh of Lincoln — Currently it may well be a clever play on words, but my hope is that the GAFCON departure would lead to a return to Anglicanism’s tradition of respect of different points of view held together in our shared roots, common worship & the Chicago/Lambeth Quadrilateral — a significant rejection of the move towards greater centralization & control (which I don’t think can work without the good will that would make it unnecessary). Bishop Cummins was the suffragan of Kentucky who was censured by the House of Bishops for receiving Communion at an ecumenical Protestant gathering who… Read more »

Cheryl Va. Clough
13 years ago

Thanks Kurt, Cummins letter written then could easily have been written by some today.

It’s interesting to see that it is the same kind of tensions too.

So aparrently the problem is more than homosexuality.

I don’t think the souls who expel others for co-operating with people outside of their own church are the keys the future. They are most likely to be the ones to advocate barricading and barring “the heathen” thus escalating conflicts rather than healing breaches. No pluralistic society for those souls, and interfaith dialogue means what? for them.

Malcolm+
13 years ago

The pro-Covenant forces have the momentum.

Our first report on the Church Times online poll result showed the pro-Covenant position at 6%. Our next showed it at 7%.

Since then, I looked back three times and it was 8%, 9% and 10% in succession. If I look back another 41 times, they’ll have won!

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