Thinking Anglicans

GAFCON: Tuesday evening news and comment

Riazat Butt in The Guardian has Cracks begin to show at summit discussing gay clergy rift and an audio report Church summit: ‘For them it’s all about homosexuality’.
Matthew Davies at Episcopal Life Online writes Conservative Anglicans meeting in Jerusalem struggle to find a united voice.
Ruth Gledhill writes in The Times Anglican Church schism recedes over gay issue with African leaders and on her blog Gafcon: ‘There will be no split’.

The bishop of Rochester, Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, spoke to GAFCON this evening; please see our article below for details of this.

Paul Handley writes in the Church Times blog What will come out of GAFCON?.
Stephen Bates writes in the Guardian’s Comment is Free page Vicious hot air currents.
The first leader in today’s Guardian is Clerical errors.

On his blog Mark Russell (Chief Executive of Church Army and a member of the Archbishops’ Council) writes about the need for leaders to talk to those with whom they disagree in Countdown to Lambeth.

Anglican TV is in Jerusalem and has both live and archived video. The live video is also carried on GAFCON’s own website here.

There is a gallery of photos at Gafcon’s Public Gallery.

25
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
25 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
17 Comment authors
Pat O'NeillMalcolm+robroyJPMKurt Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

The “Sunday” section of Gafcon’s Public Gallery takes an interestingly Stalinist approach to the selection of images. Although approximately fifty of the scans are of the main Sunday eucharist at St George’s Cathedral, and although Bishop Dawani, was preacher at this service in his own cathedral, there is not a single photograph of the bishop taken during the course of the service. The only photograph of him, a closeup as he greets Archbishop Akinola, identifies Akinola but not Dawani. Maybe didn’t much care for his sermon? We know they don’t like his choice of house guests.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Gafcon/Sunday/photo#5214797010175795218

Treebeard
Guest
Treebeard

‘…and although Bishop Dawani, was preacher at this service in his own cathedral, there is not a single photograph of the bishop taken during the course of the service…’

They can air-brush who they choose. But want they’d really like is really to make some of us vanish –not without success in Nigeria.

They can’t drive us off the streets and communities of UK, but they sure do want to keep us out of Church–or if present, to be hidden like this bishop in his own cathedral !

Leonardo Ricardo
Guest

Dr Michael Nazir-Ali interview.

I just watched +Nazir-Ali, and his “conscience” suggest he “may go to Lambeth” depending upon if his requirements are met (or someth’n like that) because he has trouble “sharing Communion” with some of the others (that he apparently doesn’t think ought accept the Gifts of God for The People of God).

I’ve never seen such pompus fidgeting anywhere/anytime.

MJ
Guest
MJ

Under intense pressure from ace reporter Riazat Butt, +Jensen, the emerging leader of GAFCON, finally cracks and reveals the painstakingly planned future for the movement. Which is, are you ready…?

“This is a coalition of people who would not necessarily work together. Will it work? We don’t know.”

Oh.

Time for some levity, me’thinks. An oldie but a goodie. (And remember – always have Leviticus to protect you…!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ziECzNKhM

David Green
Guest

The Socialist Episcopal Church!!

I wonder if Hugo Chaves will join?!?

Fr Mark
Guest
Fr Mark

There’s something very weird about seeing Archbishop Peter Jensen in his grey striped open necked shirt consorting with all those African primates in zuchetti or purple birettas – one cannot feel they will have a long and happy future together. It looks, from the photos, as if they split churchmanship-wise for their Sunday worship – the early Mass looks very Catholic, and the later one very Protestant. If you went to the early service, you would have got Bishop Ackerman in a lacy alb genuflecting before Our Lord Truly Present under the forms of Bread and Wine, and if you… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

“Don’t they see the historic theological differences here are far greater than anything to do with whether the celebrant is gay or straight”

But what a perfect example of true Christian side by side! If only they could see the irony of it.

Treebeard
Guest
Treebeard

Hard getting Mothers’ Pride* into a monstrance too !

* Ah yes may be Mothers’ Pride would be a good name for Gafcon as a continuing (post Jerusalem) movement.

robroy
Guest
robroy

Riaza Butt continues her wishful thinking rather than reporting news. What I find interesting is that Ms Butt and the readers here are quick to predict that because there are Anglo-catholics and evangelicals at GAFCon, they must surely fail. But if that is the case, let us just give up on Anglicanism. No, the orthodox Anglo-catholics and evangelicals can live together as they have for the past 400 years. It is the liberal innovationists that are killing the church. In other words, tension between Anglo-catholics and evangelicals – good, the true via media; Tension between orthodox and liberals – deadly,… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“They need to be rhetorical. In part, it’s cultural.” So, Christians aren’t called to be counter to a culture that thinks it acceptable to deride and condemn others, to hypocritically claim to love those one wants to jail. I see. Refusing to condemn acts of violence against people, even denying such acts occur, that’s Christian adaptation to local culture? Got it. “Dr Peter Jensen, who has become the key player on the Anglican conservative wing, shifting the emphasis from the US and African conservatives to Australia.” A militant fundamentalist who denies not only the historical catholic faith, but even many… Read more »

Fr Mark
Guest
Fr Mark

Robroy: No, Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals have never been able to work together in the C of E in the past. They have, in effect, inhabited two quite different churches by ignoring each other’s existence in the C of E. Their previous coexistence is more of a historic model for toleration of the presence of other Anglicans who disagree with you than it is a model for a “pure” group excluding the doctrinally “impure.”

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“Tension between orthodox and liberals – deadly, there is no via media between orthodoxy and apostasy.” Ah, but you see, there CAN be such a Via Media if the conservatives stopped applying false labels. Conservatives in this debate are not “orthodox” by any reasonable definition of the word. I asked before if anyone could explain how Jensenite “Sydney Evangelicalsim” could be called orthodoxy. You have notably NOT taken up the challenge of providing such an explanation. I therefor assume you do not want to face the fact of the heterodoxy of those who presume to call themselves “orthodox”. Second, liberals… Read more »

Frozenchristian
Guest
Frozenchristian

If Jensen emerges as the chief Gaffer than that gives tye lie to the earlier bluster about GAFCON being non-western etc and putting power in the hands of the growing African church blah blah blah…

Surely this can’t just be a powwer grab by the white conservatives in Australia and the US? After all, they keep telling us thay are the morally upright ones.

bls
Guest

Actually, to my mind, only the liberals have kept the evos and the A.C.s from falling out; only the presence of a common enemy could keep Anglo-Papists and Anglican Lay Presidentials together in the same organization. The modern ones, anyway, who do, I agree, seem to be far more extreme (and of lesser stature, it certainly seems, given that neither can seem to co-exist with people who disagree with them about – of all things – the love and commitment of two human beings) than those who went before. Anyway, robroy: in another 20 years, the (Anglican) generation that hates… Read more »

Kurt
Guest
Kurt

“Despite the huffing, they maintain they don’t want to leave Anglicanism: in the old evangelical phrase, it’s a convenient boat to fish from. But many other Anglicans would like to see them go”–Stephen Bates [the author of “God’s Own Country: Power and the Religious Right in the USA”]

I’m one of those who frankly would like to see them go, already! I make no apologies about that.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“many other Anglicans would like to see them go”

Well, in my more unChristian moments, I’d agree, but in a more sober mind, I think a schism would be a powerful witness to our inability to actually live the Gospel

Jerry Hannon
Guest
Jerry Hannon

bls posted: “Anyway, robroy: in another 20 years, the (Anglican) generation that hates homosexuality (and partnered homosexuals) more than anything else on earth will all be gone. Sorry ’bout that.” For anyone who has lived in the United States, through the period of roughly about 1960 to the present, they can relate to how very old prejudices do indeed fade as earlier generations fade away. bls has wisely warned robroy that he/she will indeed be as disappointed as those who hated blacks, or hispanics, or non-Europeans, became disappointed, as generation after generation that followed gradually destroyed those pillars of hate.… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Robroy wrote: “No, the orthodox Anglo-catholics and evangelicals can live together as they have for the past 400…”

You mean “live apart”, surely.

Isn’t that the trouble behind today’s troubles?

robroy
Guest
robroy

“Anyway, robroy: in another 20 years, the (Anglican) generation that hates homosexuality (and partnered homosexuals) more than anything else on earth will all be gone. Sorry ’bout that.” A strange statement that flies in the face of reality. The Episcopal denomination was the fastest declining one last year. That Presbyterians just announced that last year was the worst ever for them, signals how bad it was for TEC. This year promises to be much worse. And the news in Canada and England? Pretty much all bad. Now, the “homosexual haters”? By which Mr BLS means those that adhere to sciptural… Read more »

Kurt
Guest
Kurt

“As to Peter Jensen’s or the Diocese of Sydney’s view on the eucharist – he said himself in one of the news conferences that 1) the Bible doesn’t spell out who can administer the eucharist, but also 2) that despite talking about it for 30 years, they haven’t reached consensus with the greater communion and so haven’t moved forward with the proposal (that is being responsible).”Posted by: robroy Rubbish! Anyone who knows anyone in Sydney can tell you that lay presidency is widespread in practice there. The Jensenites are just hypocritical about it, that’s all. It’s not “official” but it’s… Read more »

JPM
Guest
JPM

According to robroy’s reasoning, communism must be the way to go, since China is the most populous nation on earth and getting bigger every day.

Meanwhile, here in the U.S.A., the Southern Baptists, who are as “orthodox” as you can get (when “orthodox” is used as a synonym for “fundamentalist,” as it generally is these days), not to mention the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., are also experiencing their worst membership decline in decades.

The truth is, established churches across the spectrum are declining in numbers. The real picture is far more complex than robroy would have you believe.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“The African church is exploding. The GS aligned churches in North America are growing nicely.” Data please? Specifics? And, especially as concerns the “GS aligned churches in NA”–where are those new members coming from? If they’re just picking up disgruntled folks from other Episcopal parishes or other Christian denominations, then they’re not growing the church at all, just “switching pews” as it were. Overall church attendance in the population as a whole has been in decline in the US for four decades, even within the RC church, where Sunday worship is supposed to be mandatory (and even in places where… Read more »

robroy
Guest
robroy

JPM writes, ———- Meanwhile, here in the U.S.A., the Southern Baptists, who are as “orthodox” as you can get (when “orthodox” is used as a synonym for “fundamentalist,” as it generally is these days), not to mention the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., are also experiencing their worst membership decline in decades. ———- While the SBC membership did decline last year, it was less than 1% and the number of Southern Baptist churches grew by 1.1 percent to 44,696 and worship attendance increased slightly to 6.15 million. And the (slight) decline is partially attributable to smaller families as well.… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

To date, the membership / attendance data for the schismatical congregations in the US has been a tightly guarded secret – a tribute to the “conservative’s” commitment to transparency.

Doubtless these will be released along with the info on who the mysterious $9M GAFPRONE donor was, or who all actually attended the GAFFEPRONE pretendy pilgrimage.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

Robroy:

And what’s the average age of one of your so-called “orthodox” Christians in the US? I can’t believe it’s under 40…because every poll indicates that the younger a person is in this country the more likely they are to have a tolerant attitude toward same-sex relationships.

Unless you’re suggesting that every bigot under 40 has gravitated to your preferred kind of religion.