Thinking Anglicans

Lambeth: Sunday news

The Telegraph has a report by Jonathan Wynne-Jones which is headlined Homosexual bishops face Anglican Church ban.

This refers to the third report from the Windsor Continuation Group, which is due to be released on Monday afternoon. See here for the first and second reports. According to Wynne-Jones the third one will say:

The paper, “How do we get from here to there?”, stresses that it is vital that an Anglican Covenant be agreed so that churches around the world are mutually accountable and united by a common set of beliefs. This must happen as soon as possible, it says, to prevent further haemorrhaging of the Anglican Communion over the issue of homosexual clergy.

Until a consensus is reached, the American and Canadian churches must refrain from consecrating more homosexual bishops and carrying out blessing services for same-sex couples, the paper says.

If they do not, they will face being pushed to the margins of the communion and find themselves excluded from the councils that are central to the governance of the Church.

This was of course what the original Windsor Report recommended in 2004. But it also recommended an end to boundary crossings, and now it seems that recommendation may also be repeated:

The African churches, which oppose having practising homosexuals in the clergy, will be told that they must stop intervening in the affairs of other churches as their actions are deepening the rift.

Nigerian and Ugandan archbishops have taken control of dozens of parishes in America and Canada opposed to a liberal agenda.

It seems extraordinarily unlikely that the Nigerians, Ugandans, and indeed the Kenyans or Rwandans, would now agree to undo this, no matter what TEC or ACC agreed to do.

The Sunday Times published a long interview with Bishop Gene Robinson by Rosie Millard.

The BBC reports on a sermon given by Rowan Williams at St Dunstan’s Church, Canterbury today and broadcast on BBC Radio 4, in Anglicans ‘must resolve tensions’. The full text of the sermon is here.

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MRG
MRG
12 years ago

A rather elegant solution to this problem, in my view, is to simply demand sexual abstinence from all Anglican bishops, and – perhaps – all priests. In addition to shifting attention away from the unseemly spat over homosexuality, a strictly-policed policy of clerical celibacy would have the advantage of drawing the Church of Canterbury closer to the Church of Rome – a consummation, apparently, devoutly to be wished. It would, moreover, require the straight bishops to continue their sex lives, should they choose to do so in defiance of the ban, with as much discretion as the gay bishops of… Read more »

Bob in SW PA
Bob in SW PA
12 years ago

I can honestly say, and “I’m unanimous in this,” that I want nothing to do with something that remotely resemlbles the Roman Church!

I have no need to hold back basic human rights because they can’t abide by it in Nigeria. It seems that Nigeria, Uganda, Rwaanda or even Kenya are less than ideal models of Christianity, of tolerance and acceptence of people who are different.

JCF
JCF
12 years ago

“Until a consensus is reached, the American and Canadian churches must refrain from consecrating more homosexual bishops and carrying out blessing services for same-sex couples, the paper says.: “Consensus is reached”??? When’s that supposed to happen, the Second Coming? (Right after consensuses on the ordination of women and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist—Hello, Sydney!—I suppose) “If they do not, they will face being pushed to the margins of the communion and find themselves excluded from the councils that are central to the governance of the Church.” I don’t know if this is from the original, or Wynne-Jones’s… Read more »

Rae Fletcher
Rae Fletcher
12 years ago

What a disappointment Rowan Williams has turned out to be. He has prevented all voices from coming to the table, confused the dialogue by his comments on some things and his silence on others and now seems to want to claim for himself and the conference a degree of authority that neither has ever had. What has happened to synodical governance, certainly the primate of Canada has no authority to sign on to such an agreement other than to promise to take it back to the Canadian General Synod for consideration there. Rowan’s proposal puts the church right back where… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Cynthia Gilliatt
12 years ago

Since the Windsor Report, TEC has not consecrated any more gay {or lesbian} bishops, although several have been on diocesan ballots. That such persons were nominated shows the continuing move towards acceptance in TEC, and also should remind the rest of the Communion that our polity is not top down; nobody – not the HoB nor the Presiding Bishop can dictate whom a diocese may or may not nominate and elect. Since the Windsor Report, promiscuous border crossings by vagrant bishops have carried on apace, as has the attempt to steal TEC property. I just bet the vagrant bishops [most… Read more »

Lois Keen
12 years ago

Please, does Rowan really believe the covenant can stuff the genie back in the bottle – either genie, either bottle – TEC et al or GAFCON/Foca (or whatever alphabet soup I’m supposed to use now)? I can’t believe he’s that naive. He must know absolutely that the GAFCON/Foca/assorted alphabet folk are never ever going to stop their incursions into the territories of fellow bishops. So Rowan must be counting on our liberal value of making nice and giving way and stuffing our LGBT loved ones back into the closet in hope we can make progress another day. Please tell me… Read more »

Caoilin
Caoilin
12 years ago

Amen to what Lois said!

JPM
JPM
12 years ago

Nigeria and the other usual suspects are about to announce the creation of a brand new GAFCON province in North America. Does that sound like the action of those who are (1) planning to stay in the Communion, and (2) willing to return parishes to their rightful bishops and withdraw into their own territories?

It’s hard to believe that such bright, well educated people could really be so naive as to think that GAFCON is going to return the looted parishes to their rightful bishops and go home.

WilliamK
WilliamK
12 years ago

I assume that MRG’s suggestion about mass-celibacy was tongue-in-cheek…. But I think it does very effectively make a serious point. It seems to me that much is being demanded of gay and lesbian Anglicans who wish to serve the Church. For such a call to sacrifice to be taken seriously, it would be nice to see the heterosexual majority offering to share the pain. “Until a consensus is reached” about the valid ministry of non-celibate homosexuals, perhaps all heterosexual priests should embrace celibacy, in solidarity with the (demanded) self-denial and cross-bearing of their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. I… Read more »

John Henry
John Henry
12 years ago

“Please tell me why we should make nice, throw our GLBT friends, family and colleagues under the bus again just to keep the peace? It won’t be enough. You know it won’t, and the incursions will continue anyway.” -Lois Keen. No one could have said it better then Lois Keen. The African primates who have taken charge of alphabet soup parishes that lawfully belong to TEC are utterly immoral people (unless piracy is a moral endeavor!) motivated by greed and the sinful desire to exercise power. At best they are neo-Donatist heretics who presume to know whom God will judge… Read more »

BillyD
BillyD
12 years ago

RE: waiting for a consensus

Now that one of the talking points has become “American gay liberation causes African Islamists to kill Christians,” it looks like we’ll not only have to wait until the Anglican Communion reaches a consensus favorable to the consecration of gay bishops, but until the Islamists do, too.

Göran Koch-Swahne
12 years ago

Amen!

Sara MacVane
Sara MacVane
12 years ago

I think it is interesting that the report due to become public this afternoon, claims that USA and Canadian churches should refrain from consecrating gay or lesbian bishops and from blessing gay or lesbian couples. A published book claims that C-of-E has a coupled gay bishop and the two bishops I asked about this nodded their heads to say yes I know it. There are also numerous blessings of gay and lesbian couples in UK and I imagine in other places (Autralia? New Zealand?). Isn’t honesty a Christian virtue?

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
12 years ago

Having been baptised and confirmed within the boundaries of the Church of England, and since being priested in the Church of Aotearoa/New Zealand, I have a perspective on the Anglican Communion that is see3mingly aglay from that of some of the English Bishops at Lambeth. Despite my love of ‘Mother Church’, I would not want to have to choose between my loyalty to her and my loyalty to the Gospel – as experienced within the polity of my adopted N.Z. Church. My problem with this new attempt to mollify the parts of the Church that have cultural problems of their… Read more »

Cheryl Va.
12 years ago

Amen Lois et al. Personally, I never made a vow of celibacy and accept that God created this world because God desired this world. If God no longer wanted this world or its occupants, then we would no longer exist. Some stupid humans might want to align with some stupid angels and claim that this is a “fallen” world from “original” sin and best course is to avoid engaging with it. Fine. Don’t engage with it. But then don’t complain when the occupants of this world take responsbilitity for its existence, sustainability and take on the responsbilities of stewardship and… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
12 years ago

Father Ron Smith,

Lambeth Conferences cannot “pass” legislation.

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
12 years ago

Dear Goran,

Thanks be to God for that, anyway,

But will their be attempted subtle coercion?

JPM
JPM
12 years ago

WilliamK, I would not require celibacy of all clergy: I would just settle for some consistency.

Lambeth 1.10, which now apparently has the authority of Holy Scripture, holds up *lifelong* heterosexual unions as the ideal.

Add to that Scripture’s take on divorce and nearly two millennia of church tradition, and it is clear that remarriage after divorce is not permitted, so matter how many ingenious loopholes those who want to remarry might devise.

It seems clear to me that if homosexuals are called to celibacy, the same is true of heterosexuals who marry poorly.

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
12 years ago

JPM, You are missing some important points. First, heterosexuals are human beings, loved by God, though evil and criminal. So, God has compassion on their weakness and gives them a second(third, fourth, fifth,….)chance. It doesn’t even matter if they are beyond the age of procreation, which is of course, the underlying purpose of matrimony, because their “complimentary” bits make it possible for God to make a miracle a la Sarai, so even the manifestly non-procreative sex of two 70 year olds is still, on some level, holy, since God COULD still make a baby. We, on the other hand, may… Read more »

JPM
JPM
12 years ago

Of course, Ford–how could I have forgotten?

Father Ron Smith
Father Ron Smith
12 years ago

Dear Goran, (please forget my spelling error in my last post, saying ‘their’, when I really meant to say ‘there’) your point about Lambeth not being able to legislate is really pertinent on this and every other issue about the Conference.

Perhaps this is a distinction we all ought to make at this time – the important one – between the Law and the Prophets. (modern-day, of course).

Göran Koch-Swahne
12 years ago

Father Ron Smith wrote: “Perhaps this is a distinction we all ought to make at this time – the important one – between the Law and the Prophets (modern-day, of course).”

As one of my teachers once said: Now, this is not Law! adding, as an aside to herself (it isn’t Gospel either…)

;=)

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