Thinking Anglicans

Lambeth: Tuesday news reports

BBC Robert Pigott Oppose gay bishops, Anglicans urged

Guardian Riazat Butt Anglican forum to deal with controversial issues in bid to heal rift between factions

Telegraph Martin Beckford Archbishop of Canterbury to create group to punish rule-breaking Anglican churches

The Times Ruth Gledhill Anglicans to halt gay bishop consecrations and same-sex blessings

Anglican Journal Marites Sison Proposal calls for moratorium on same-sex blessings and gay ordinations

ENS Mary Frances Schjonberg Windsor Continuation Group proposals on homosexuality issues, interventions, get mixed reception

Living Church Steve Waring ‘Time Out’ Proposed at Lambeth Conference

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Göran Koch-Swahne
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Someone is trying to fool you. A moratorium is proposed. The proposal is to make this moratorium “retroactive”.

Newspeak. if ever there was any.

oran habush
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oran habush

Just a question. Did the Bishop of Rochester turn up to Lambeth in the end or did he really boycott it?

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Anyone who believes that the border-crossers in North America will give back what they have seized is living in a fantasy world.

WilliamK
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WilliamK

Am I the only one who noticed how many of the headlines turned what is a proposal under discussion and debate into a “done deal”? Once again, the press is failing in its responsibility to report the facts responsibly. If I weren’t a “liberal revisionist” I’d be talking about an especially warm place in Hell being set aside for the journalists who seem determined to stir up trouble just to sell papers….

Pamela Grenfell Smith
Guest

The Anglican Journal writes:
“Aside from New Westminster, at least four other Canadian dioceses – Ottawa, Montreal, Niagara and Huron – have asked their bishops to give clergy permission to bless same-sex marriages “where at least one party is baptized” and to authorize an appropriate rite.”

You know, that surprises me – I thought they were requesting permission for same-sex blessings, not “marriages.”

If AJ has got this wrong, they should be asked to issue a correction.

[If I’ve got this wrong, I’ll just add it to my list of things I’ve gotten wrong this week…]

Rae Fletcher
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Rae Fletcher

Unless I’m mistaken about the composition of the group from which this proposal has come, there wasn’t a liberal voice among them. So once again, proposals for action are coming without having folded in all the voices at the table. It boggles a North American mind that Gene Robinson can be excluded from what is becoming a discussion about him, the liberal voice can be excluded from this group and yet there is an expectation that liberal minds will set aside their biblical study and theological reflection to accept what is not a solution, but a surrender conservatives. I’ve seen… Read more »

MJ
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MJ

Rae Fletcher – “Unless I’m mistaken about the composition of the group from which this proposal has come, there wasn’t a liberal voice among them.” Well, to be fair, John Moses, the former Dean of St Paul’s, would be fairly ‘liberal’ – in the sense that there should be a place within the Communion for those on both sides. From a BBC report at the time of his retirement in 2006: The Dean of St Paul’s Cathedral in London has attacked traditionalists in the Anglican church for conducting a “witch-hunt” against homosexuals. “The thought that anybody should be shown the… Read more »

Charles Nurse
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Charles Nurse

Pamela – the AJ is correct.

While New Westminster’s resolution was to bless same-sex unions, since that resolution passed Canada has allowed same-sex couples to be civilly married.

So the more recent resolutions from the four Canadian Dioceses was to “bless same-sex couples who have been married in a civil ceremony”. This is actually asking for a higher level of commitment from the couples.

Note: It is not “same-sex marriage in church” – it is a blessing of a Civil marriage – and there already is a service for the “Blessing of a Civil Marriage” in the Canadian Book of Alternative Services.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

WilliamK, “the press is failing in its responsibility to report the facts responsibly.” Wrong tense. I’ve often thought it would be an interesting project for a journalism student to review the reportage of CNN,CBS,NBC,and FOX for the two weeks following Sept. 11, 2001, to see how much of what was reported was actually true. The driving force is to be the first with a particular story. Whether or not that story is actually true is secondary. This is not a new thing. I had an editor recently say quite matter of factly that when reporters attend a scrum, they often… Read more »

cryptogram
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cryptogram

There is so much misinformation about the status of this report made yesterday that it is tipping violently towards disinformation. The ABC said at the weekend that this would not be a substantive document, but more in the nature of a progress report. He made a remark which rather mixed metaphors about running it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes it. It would be a good deal better all round if people did just that, rather than jumping to conclusions like the newspaper sub-editors seem to be doing. (How the Telegraph can justify the headline it prints is beyond… Read more »

Phyllis
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Phyllis

I for one couldn’t care less about border crossings compared to the exclusion of my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. Let the conservatives cross our borders. The fruits of their labor will be small, and perhaps they will then leave us alone to witness to the gospel of Christ, which is inclusive. And here is one Episcopalian with a message for Lambeth. I will not hate or exclude no matter what you say. If you ask me to, you are asking the impossible for you are asking me to betray a trust. No.

Richard
Guest
Richard

I believe that the Canadian dioceses which have approved same-sex blessings are (also) approving the blessing of legal same-sex marriages, which are now fully acceptable under Canadian law.

Canon G
Guest
Canon G

If those approving same sex unions were to repent, slit their wrists and die, a great many Anglican bishops and archbishops would still not be satisfied. They have been waiting 200 years or more to expressed self righteous indignation and have no intention of stopping any time soon much less curbing their blatant territorial ambitions. What a disgrace that none of the documents highlight the protection of homosexual persons from attack and imprisonment (though earlier meetings before Lambeth did produce such documents). Let’s all return to the middle ages and forget the tiresome heritage of the enlightenment.

Steven
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Steven

Ford: Chortle! The statement in your last paragraph is definitely humorous, but probably a bit over-stated for most conservatives. It would probably be more accurate to say that most conservatives believe that liberals are unable to accomplish any of the things you list without the results being tainted, distorted and twisted by their presuppositional mindset. This twisting will obviously be more acute when liberal presuppositions run counter to Scripture. However, since this type of accusation is passed back and forth rather freely by both sides, we are not likely to get anywhere soon arguing Scripture. And, why expect that. I… Read more »

Kurt
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Kurt

“If those approving same sex unions were to repent, slit their wrists and die, a great many Anglican bishops and archbishops would still not be satisfied. They have been waiting 200 years or more to expressed self righteous indignation and have no intention of stopping any time soon much less curbing their blatant territorial ambitions.”–Canon G No doubt, quite true. But “waiting 200 years”? Which of the main fundagelical dioceses have even been around that long? Can’t be Nigeria; the first mission of the CofE was established there only in 1842. The Nigerians haven’t even celebrated the centenial of their… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Steven, I refer you to the GAFCON statement, to be found here: http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/anglican_communion/gafcon_statement.html I draw your attention to the second paragraph under the heading “The Global Anglican Context”. Read this in the context of statements by +Akinola, among others, that TEC is “apostate”, as well as frequent statements by them that TEC, oh and Canada as well, do not believe Scriptures, etc. and realize that this is merely the most recent statement from them of the “faithlessness” of liberals. You may well be a conservative who takes the view that liberals are constrained by their “presuppositional mindset”, an argument that… Read more »

John Holding
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John Holding

“I believe that the Canadian dioceses which have approved same-sex blessings are (also) approving the blessing of legal same-sex marriages, which are now fully acceptable under Canadian law.” Only one Canadian diocese has approved same-sex blessings – New Westminster. No other dioceses have approved blessing anything. The laity+clergy of four other dioceses have asked their bishops to approve the preparation of a rite for the blessing of a same-sex civil marriage. They did not seek the right to be able to carry out such blessings. For that to happen, the Bishops will first have to agree to the preparation of… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“No other dioceses have approved blessing anything.”

Only Pets, Houses, maybe even Cars and Hunts…

Nom de Plume
Guest
Nom de Plume

To clarify the clarifications of the unclear Canadian situation: The Synods of Ottawa, Montreal, Niagara and Huron have each adopted an identical motion requestion their respective bishops to authorize a rite for the blessing of persons in same-sex civil marriages, and to issue guidelines for its use by priests whose conscience permits in supportive parishes. There is (Charles Nurse) an existing rite for the Blessing of a Civil Marriage, but it is not found in the Book of Alternative Services, but rather in the Book of Occasional Celebrations. (A 2004 motion at General Synod was adopted to have the Rite… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

On another page I have remarked on the manner in which “preliminary observations” have become immutable fiats.

As to the composition of the committee, it isn’t quite fair to suggest that Victoria Christchurch via Edmonton is a conservative. She did chair the Canadian commission which deemed that the issue of same sex unions is not core doctrine, and she has not been opposed *in principle* to the blessing of such unions.

She is a moderates moderate.

But she is, it seems, the most liberal voice on an incredibly unbalanced committee.

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

No, Steven, they don;t have to do anything. If the conservatives wish to throw the liberals out,then that is up to them – it will mean the disintegration of the CofE, however. So, don’t expect mealy mouthed compromise with your religion, which is essentially homophobic and repressive, and urgently requires revision.

What we are seeing now is just a very painful and extended ending to the illogicalities of entirely contradictory views sharing the same space.

Richard
Guest
Richard

Please pardon my lack of clarity. Four Canadian dioceses have voted to allow their bishops to permit the blessing of same-sex relationships. These bishops have not yet done so, but, strictly speaking, such blessings have been approved. Our bishop has said that his decision will be made after Lambeth.

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

Thank you Malcolm+, for your clarification of the fact that the Windsor (Ongoing) Commission is not totally Conservative in composition. And we will be very glad to welcome +Victoria to our Christchurch Diocese in New Zealand, as soon as she has completed her work at the Lambeth C.
We are hopeful that she might help to stem the ominous trickle of Global-South-oriented clergy from the Sydney Archdiocese into our territory.

Richard
Guest
Richard

Please pardon my lack of clarity. Four Canadian dioceses have voted to allow their bishops to permit the blessing of same-sex relationships. These bishops have not yet done so, but, strictly speaking, such blessings have been approved. Our bishop has said that his decision will be made after Lambeth.

John Holding
Guest
John Holding

Sorry Richard, that’s just not so, at least in the case of the Diocese of Ottawa. I was a member of the Ottawa Synod when that vote was taken. I can attest that it was made clear by the mover and by the Bishop as he presided over the debate, that the motion was in fact advisory — a way of taking the temperature of the Synod, so to speak. It was also made clear that even if the Bishop did approve the motion (which we knew he would not, at least until after Lambeth) and did ask for preparation… Read more »