Thinking Anglicans

more from Uganda

Last week, we had these stories from Uganda.

This week, we have Premier urges Church on Mengo row in New Vision. Although mainly about other matters, the article includes some references to church issues:

PRIME Minister Apolo Nsibambi yesterday asked Church leaders to mediate between the Government and Buganda Kingdom over the proposed Land Amendment Bill.

Nsibambi was yesterday speaking at the 19th Provincial Assembly of the Church of Uganda at the Uganda Christian University, Mukono.

Over 30 bishops from the Anglican Church and 100 delegates from 32 dioceses are meeting to discuss the future of the Church, the Church House project and other challenges including homosexuality…

… Nsibambi asked the clergy to fight homosexuality.

“One challenge is the vice of homosexuality in our own institutions and families. How ready are we to deal with homosexuality in our schools and universities alongside the global crisis in the Anglican Church?” he asked.

He commended Archbishop Henry Luke Orombi for fighting homosexuality. He urged the clergy to assist the Government end the burning of schools.

Nsibambi said religious education would not be scrapped from the syllabus. “We could not make religious education compulsory because that way, it can be resented. Religion is sacrosanct and we do not have to force it on people,” he stated…

…Orombi repeated his stand against homosexuality. While acknowledging Canterbury as an historic See, Orombi said the Archbishop of Canterbury had no jurisdiction over the Ugandan Province.

“When he acts contrary to the Word of God, we resist because we know he is wrong.”

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Erika BakerGöran Koch-SwahneFord ElmsFather Ron SmithReverend Ref Recent comment authors
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JCF
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JCF

Begs the question of just how much longer TA should continue to cover Orombi and the denomination he leads (as it does not cover every other ex-Anglican splinter group).

I have no doubt, however, that there remain (some) faithful *Anglicans* in Uganda, and they should receive our prayers and support.

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

With all the problems Uganda faces, it’s hard to figure out why its prime minister considers homosexuality so important.

drdanfee
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drdanfee

Well in between the lines of these passing remarks about homosexuality in Uganda, we can get provisional glimpses of the transitional state through which they possibly pass. That is, it is just barely starting to dawn upon them that (A) there is a higher incidence than the popular imagination presumed was at all possible (echoes of USA and the Kinsey studies?), plus (B) a struggle to forcefully reassert that even if there turn out to be lots more Ugandan folks who are queer folks, they must be defined as nothing but problems, problems, problems, or better – danger, danger, danger,… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo
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“When he acts contrary to the Word of God, we resist because we know he is wrong.” Orombi of Uganda

Makes my head spin as this “decider” of right and wrong initiaties a purge of Anglicans/Christians and others throughout his superstitous, rampantly corrupt and war-torn land…sure, blame the school fireburnings/deaths on LGBT Christians too..no sense trying to face and STOP REAL atrocities from being committed in Uganda when YOU can divert attention from a truly vile national character, and everyday behavior, with a deadly WITCH HUNT…no Bishop Orombi, persecuting LGBT Christians/others won’t make YOUR TROUBLES go away.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“Nsibambi asked the clergy to fight homosexuality” This reference in New Vision to the statement made by the Prime minister of Uganda to a meeting of the Anglican Bishops, and the response of Archbishop Orombi, would seem to highlight the difficulties being faced in several African Provinces of the Anglican Communion at this point in time. What the Communion has to decide is whether the issue of the human rights of homosexuals ought to be addressed by the Communion as a whole – or should local custom be allowed to dictate polity in the local Churches of the Communion. It… Read more »

JPM
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JPM

You know, Ugandans must find homosexuality awfully alluring, considering how every institution in Ugandan society apparently has to wage a constant and desperate fight against it.

Have these people given any thought to how they are presenting themselves to the rest of the world?

Malcolm+
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So, tell me again how it’s the Americans who are too closely allied with their culture.

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

“When he acts contrary to the Word of God, we resist because we know he is wrong.” This is a perfect moment for all those Lambeth bishops who occupy the middle ground to play their part in the moratorium process. How many will now stand up and say, loud and clear, that it is possible to resist and oppose homosexuality on theological grounds, but the issue is HOW you do it? Father Ron, I have no problem with allowing different cultures to have different views on this, but it is important that all Christians, including African ones, understand that certain… Read more »

Keith Johnson
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Keith Johnson

The Prime Minister and the Archbishop ought to re-read 1 Samuel 18, 1-4 and 20, 30-34, and announce that the Psalms of David will no longer be read in Ugandan Churches. King Saul was right!

Reverend Ref
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Orombi repeated his stand against homosexuality. While acknowledging Canterbury as an historic See, Orombi said the Archbishop of Canterbury had no jurisdiction over the Ugandan Province.

Um . . . So tell me again how it is that +Orombi, +Akinola, +Venebles, et al think they can exercise authority in the U.S. and Canadian provinces?

I’m reminding of sitting on a merry-go-round as a child and feeling sick from all the spinning.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Erika, I absolutely agree with you that it is now up to the Bishops of the Communion to present a united front on the issue of homosexuality – from the point of view of its clearly-established human rights angle. To my mind, this is a purely Gospel issue – no different from other issues of human rights, which the Church ought to be affirming. However, as we all know, one of the reasons the Global South Bishops were not present at Lambeth -preferring instead their own private Gaffe-Conference – was that they are unprepared to hear any argument that could… Read more »

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

Father Ron “However, as we all know, one of the reasons the Global South Bishops were not present at Lambeth -preferring instead their own private Gaffe-Conference – was that they are unprepared to hear any argument that could place homosexuality within the compass of God’s natural order.” You see, I don’t think this has anything more to do with GAFCON bishops. They are so far on the extreme that talking to them is absolutely pointless. What riles me is the silent majority of Bishops who all met at Lambeth, who are all part of the AC, and yet who rarely… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Erika, We both remember how long it has taken the Church to acknowledge the place of women amongst our clergy. It will take even longer for our Mother Church – the C. of E. – to ordain a woman Bishop. This acceptance of the critical place of women in the Church required a change of heart amongst many of us who, formerly, were convinced that God could only call men into the Sacred Ministry. The Churches of Rome and our Orthodox (genuinely Orthodox, that is) sisters and brothers are still not yet convinced of that possibility – more on the… Read more »

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

Father Ron

Yes to all you say.

But there has to be a middle development too, which is that even those who do not yet accept full equality of gays in the life of the church have to recognise what it appropriate treatment of the people they believe to fall short of God’s grace, and what isn’t.
And when they recognise inappropriate treatment, they must speak out. Loudly and clearly.

It is time the centre made itself heard.

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

“Softly, softly, catchee monkey” – this old proverb from somewhere, I feel, says much about the way in which the Church works. another parody of a well-loved Hymn of the Church says it even better: “Like a mighty tortoise moves the Church of God”. It has ever been so. Two days ago, I sat amongst a phalanx of bishops, clergy and laity for the Enthronement of Bishop Victoria Matthews, a member of the W.C.G., who is committed (at this time) to the various moratoria issuing from Lambeth 2008, in the Cathedral of Christchurch, Aoteroa/New Zealand. She was right royally welcomed… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Fr. Ron, for years I believed that the leadership of the Anglican Church of Canada just didn’t get it. The issue was OOW. No bishop or priest seemed able to conceive of, or perhaps didn’t feel comfortable with, the idea that God might actually have a hand in it. It was all about rights, not at all about vocation. I still felt that way when I started going back to Church. The I heard +Matthews speak! She is one, at least, who gets it. You are so lucky to have her.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“We could not make religious education compulsory because that way, it can be resented. Religion is sacrosanct and we do not have to force it on people,” he stated…”

The promotion of secular Social Policies à la America and Rome are obviously OK, though ;=)

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Erika wrote: “It is time the centre made itself heard.”

But Erika, what if the centre is being heard? What if callousness and not caring and not loving is the centre? What if cultural (= Gnosticist) prejudice is the centre?

What if the lesson of the last Evil Times, the 1930ies, have not been heard the way we pretend?

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Göran that is indeed a terrifying thought. I hope and pray that you are wrong. I have only my own personal experience to go by, and in my village decent Christians are completely involved in their local parish life. They may occasionally read the Church Times but they don’t know much about the politics played in their name. They are a mix of liberal and conservative but not extreme. They are as little worked up about the gay debate as they are about lay presidency, and probably believe that the true hot button problems for us today are interfaith relations.… Read more »