Thinking Anglicans

Lambeth: a Welsh perspective

Archbishop Barry Morgan spoke to the Church in Wales Governing Body, and the full text of his address is available here.

A related press release is here: Lambeth talks need time to continue if church is to stay united, says Archbishop.

A press report about this was headlined Homosexuality should not be an issue to tear the Anglican Communion apart, says the Archbishop of Wales.

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Ford ElmsErika BakerRichardFather Ron SmithHugh of Lincoln Recent comment authors
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The Rev'd LJ Roberts
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The Rev'd LJ Roberts

More sanity from Wales –again !

Maybe the FoCAs will listen to this (non-colonial) voice !

davidwh
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davidwh

“The real value of the Communion lies in deepening person to person relationships, diocesan partnerships and a sense of mutual affection”

Well, that neatly dismisses minor issues such supporting each other in witnessing to Christ’s sacrificial love for a fallen world, and fulfilling His command to make disciples of all nations. Cosy friendship among Bishops will do!

Fr. Bob Allen, retired
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Fr. Bob Allen, retired

I greatly appreciated the Archbishop’s wise and reasoned comments. My wish is that many unreasonable folks on both sides could hear and take to heart what he has said.

Commentator
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Commentator

The Archbishop appears very even handed in his discussion of Lambeth 2008. He deals with the two moratoria calmly and even mentions the desire to halt ‘border crossings’. But it is the case that there will be provision for parishes/diocese/people who find they are unable to live with the position in their part of the Church. A Pastoral Forum will be offered to them. What will be offered to those who are called upon to suffer as a result of their sexuality? Will there be a Pastoral Forum where homosexual men and women will be given the comfort and solace… Read more »

Merseymike
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Merseymike

I don’t think the moratoria could ever be acceptable, simply because it is an example of institutional homophobia. There really should be no room for this sort of compromise, and if it means a split, then that shouldn’t matter. People who think that preserving a homophobic institution is more important than treating gay and lesbian people equally are the problem. I think all gay people in the CofE should come out and wait for the reaction. They couldn’t deal with the outcome, but too many people still seem to love the church and hold back. Goodness knows why – I… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

The Church in Wales has moved from one of the most rigorous anti-divorce policies to a most liberal one…and the tiny rump of evangelicals went along with this.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“The Church in Wales has moved from one of the most rigorous anti-divorce policies to a most liberal one…and the tiny rump of evangelicals went along with this.”

Of course they did. They are, ostensibly, all heterosexual, and might need to avail of divorce at some point.

davidwh
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davidwh

Merseymike, the moratoria is the least that TEC and other Provinces should do (provided TEC gives them any reason to do it!). The trouble is your views, not the Church’s. There are plenty of people in the church who experience same-sex attractions. Many have decided to follow the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and not act on these sexual attractions as they understand them to be sinful and against God’s created order. Others decide that they think it is ok to be in a partnered relationship, and the church sees an obligation to be welcoming and pastorally caring, but… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Don’t be too harsh on the Church in Wales, Ford. Many of us are waiting for a more enlightened decision being made on the next Bishop of Bangor. I suppose it all depends on whether the call of God is concomitant with the decision of the Electoral Synod of the Diocese. Oh! and Ford, do you, like me, find the use of the word ‘ostensible’ more than intriguing – especially regarding the subject in question? And you are certainly very perceptive on the issue of divorce, not only in Wales, but elsewhere in the Church, where common human rights are… Read more »

Fprd Elms
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Fprd Elms

“Others decide that they think it is ok to be in a partnered relationship” Well, others believe the Gospel is calling them to accept gay people and that those who would shut us out are merely using Scripture to bolster their own bigotry, it’s all in the point of view, I guess. “You seem to see this (loving the sinner) as so hateful as to be in the same category at the BNP” Speaking for myself, I would say that, given the fact that it is obviously a total lie, it’s not so much in the same category as the… Read more »

Hugh of Lincoln
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Hugh of Lincoln

Although some may have regarded Wales to be more gay-friendly than others, it is the first church, post-Lambeth, to enforce not just one, but two moratoria:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1060319/Vicar-rapped-church-lesbian-marriage-blessing.html

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

‘In his report on the global gathering of bishops for the summer’s Lambeth Conference, he (Dr. Morgan, Archbishop of Wales) said: “The fundamental question in all of this is whether homosexuality is a matter of choice or not because that should make a difference to the way it is regarded.” ‘ And herein lies the root of the present discord in the Church; that homosexuality should be so heavily censured – by those who believe that gays have a ‘choice’; whether to accept their sexual orientation as a ‘given’, or to make an effort to change to the more acceptable… Read more »

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

Father Ron “The fundamental question in all of this is whether homosexuality is a matter of choice or not because that should make a difference to the way it is regarded.” I don’t agree with this statement at all, because it would make all bisexuals who find love with a member of the same sex immoral. The only question is whether there is any form of loving, faithful and stable relationship between equal adults that has to be considered immoral. Once you no longer consider committed relationships as immoral, it no longer matters what sex the respective partners are and… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Erika, I hasten to agree with you that, in the case of a bi-sexual orientation, the person is no more able to ‘deny’ their bisexuality, than is the exclusively homosexual person able to deny their ‘gay’ orientation. The moral question, in both instances, is whether or not a committed relationship between same-sex partners is within the compass of a ‘desirable’ authentification by the Church – whether the couple claim to be of the Christian faith or not. What is most important, I think in the Christian context, is the intention of a loving, committed relationship. Unfortunately, the present situation within… Read more »

Richard
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Richard

“Many have decided to follow the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and not act on these sexual attractions as they understand them to be sinful and against God’s created order.”

davidwh – repeating this at every opportunity doesn’t make it true, especially regarding the non-existent ‘teaching of Christ and the Apostles’ on this. If (as evidence suggests) homosexuality is a ‘given’ and so is part of God’s created order, would you change your mind then?

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

Dawid Wh
“Many have decided to follow the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and not act on these sexual attractions as they understand them to be sinful and against God’s created order.”

Quite. And we don’t understand them to be sinful and against God’s created order.

That’s it, really.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“Quite. And we don’t understand them to be sinful and against God’s created order.” But, you see, Erika, you have been taught this by faithless heathens who are trying to destroy the Gospel. You have been lied to and led astray from the True Faith by people who do not love you enough to cast you and your friends into jail for five years so as to make sure you bribe the judge to let you off with your crimes after you die. Now, I find it interesting that attitudes towards sexuality are an integral part of the True Faith,… Read more »