Thinking Anglicans

from the archives

Bill Fleener Jr has drawn attention on his blog Est Anima Legis to some earlier cases which are of interest now in connection with two dioceses which have recently voted to leave The Episcopal Church.

Fort Worth moves from Devious to Hypocrisy

Quincy Hypocrisy just like Fort Worth

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John Henry
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John Henry

The truth will out eventually!

The secession game is all about power, not defective theology.

Robert Ian williams
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Robert Ian williams

What do you expect from two dioceses where the bishop signed the ” Jerusalem Declaration ” that affirmed the 39 articles which undermine their very understanding of Anglicanism?

They signed up to the articles , condemning invocation of Saints, the Sacrifice of the Mass, Eucharistic reservation and worship..and then went straight home to practice them!

Furthermore the GAFCON Secretariat knew full well that they would do so…but that gave Sydney the opportunity to introduce Diaconal administration by the back door.

And this from those who constantly moan about the lawlessness of TEC!

bobinswpa
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bobinswpa

Thanks for the info Robert. I wasn’t aware that the Anglo-Catholics signed off on Benediction and Transposition of the Blessed Sacrament, the sacrifice of the mass and invocation of the saints. All these groups will fracture further because of the inability to accomodate differences. Give it time.

Columba Gilliss
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Columba Gilliss

Anybody know how the courts ruled in either of these cases?
Columba Gilliss

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“And this from those who constantly moan about the lawlessness of TEC!”

Sarcasm alert!!! But if God is on your side, nothing you do is lawless. Now, whether or not THEY are on God’s side is another matter netirely.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“All these groups will fracture further because of the inability to accomodate differences.”

I can’t wait till they start accusing each other of marginalizing them and breaking promises and all that stuff. When the outward wrath turns inward. Sounds like a line from a Sankey Hymn.

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

This account comes from the parish’s web site http://www.holyapostlesfortworth.org/ Internal Strife In the mid eighties, the Diocese of Fort Worth began to experience a great deal of turmoil concerning the leadership of the national church and, in 1989, the Bishop of Fort Worth was instrumental in establishing the Episcopal Synod of America and became its president. In the next several years, Father McCauley’s discontent with the Episcopal Church grew and, as he became more vocal in his discontent, he was successful in convincing a large number of parishioners, including the vestry, that they should leave the Episcopal Church. On October… Read more »

Cal McMillan
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Cal McMillan

Anglo-Catholics understand that the life-and-death ferment of the 16th century ensured that virtually all the formative documents were contrived to be patient of a number of interpretations. Thus, whereas a superficial reading of the 39 Articles might appear to condemn various catholic practices, a more careful scrutiny reveals considerable room for them to continue in the reformed church – as in small part they have, with toleration all round. With this rationale, Fort Worth and Quincy would have no trouble just continuing to interpret the Articles as they always have. Their active assent however, certainly leaves them open to being… Read more »

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“the Orthodox agreed to vacate the Holy Apostles’ church site” Well, if the Real Orthodox were able to vacate the premises, I see no reason why the modern Episcopalian Pseudorthodox ought not do the same thing. And, given that there’s precedent in Fort Worth diocese, if the current schismatics are so darned “orthodox” they can no longer be in communion with Anglicans, perhaps they should follow in the footsteps of their predecessors and join the Real Orthodox rather than doing what they are doing. But then, I’m sure the Antiochians would, in true Orthodox fashion, point out to them quite… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Thankyou, Martin, for giving us access to the web-site of Holy Apostles Church, fort Worth. What an amazing plethora of information about the trials and troubles of that Dicoese. Much as I do love good catholic liturgy, methinks this ethos veers rather to close to that which Robert I.W. might consider suitable for the Roman Catholic Church. One wonders how this will all blend in with the Calvinism of most of the Global South Primates and their dutiful acolytes in the newly reformed *Church of Confessing Anglicans* to be initiated in Chicago on 3rd December? What a widely open theological… Read more »

Malcolm+
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Cal is quite correct about the articles. In general, they tend not to define what we do believe, but rather to enumerate what we don’t. But even these semi-anathema’s tend to be subtly phrased. I am reminded of the story of Arthur Michael Ramsey, 100th Archbishop of Canterbury, who after his retirement, spent some time as an episcopal vistor at Nashota House. On one occasion, following a service where he had preached about purgatory, one of the students queried him, citing the 39 Articles to say that Anglicans do not believe in purgatory. “No, no, young man,” the ex-Cantuar is… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Just a few pointers….. There was no Anglo-catholicism after the Elizabethan Church settlement. A high Church party did emerge which was firmly rooted within Protestantism. The Non Jurors who probably represent its highest form, could not negotiate a union with the Orthodox, because they repudiated icons, invocation, transubstantiation and the propitiatory understanding of the Eucharist. Anglo-catholicism, which now is divided between liberals like Ron and Conservatives like Iker developed in the nineteenth century with the introduction of Roman Catholic ritual and doctrines into Anglicanism. As for the Orthodox, thy have also departed from earlier positions on sexuality. They allow divorce… Read more »

drdanfee
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drdanfee

These case studies clearly help to demonstrate that the whole realignment business is really about insiders vs outsiders, with a huge, huge, huge tectonic bedrock of church life power issues. I predict two strategies will be used by Quincy and/or Ft. W to deal with the cases of themselves and past dissents or exits. The first strategy is simply that of studied neglect – heads in the realignment sands. If realignment leaders and believers simply do not see something, it cannot exist as all real or true sight or vision is solely the closed function of their realignment point of… Read more »

ettu
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ettu

Assuming there is eventually legal action ( a safe assumption!!) then Drdanfee’s first prediction is unlikely – judges and lawyers tend to look carefully – and noisily-into precedents such as this “Holy APostles’episode”.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“As for the Orthodox, thy have also departed from earlier positions on sexuality. They allow divorce and re-marriage and now most accept contraception.” I knew they did this, but what are the “earlier positions” and when did the Orthodox depart from them? I was of the impression that their position on divorce goes back a long ways, perhaps even into the patristic period. I can’t find an exact date for the decision online. I did find one quote on an Orthodox site, in which John Crysostom says it would be: “better to break the covenant than to lose one’s soul”.… Read more »

Kurt
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Kurt

Facts never get in the way of Robert Ian Williams.

PeterK
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PeterK

Robert Ian Williams wrote: “There was no Anglo-catholicism after the Elisabethan Church settlement.

A high Church party did merge which was firmly rooted within Protestantism.”

There was always at least a catholic minimum in the Anglican Church. The AC never lost her catholic roots.

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Kurt, the fact is that the old High Church party were as oppposed to the emergence of Anglo-Catholicism as the Evangelicals……as for the Orthodox, I find them in many ways more anti-Catholic, than many evangelicals……Rome’s ecumenical view of them is flawed thinking.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“Western culture no longer regards heterosexual marriage as the only socially acceptable form of expression of sexual love, and many Christians in same-sex relationships are searching for ways to live out their commitment to one another with faithfulness and integrity.” Art. ‘Tablet’ 21/11 For Robert’s information, the wrtier of this article published today in RC Church paper ‘The Tablet’, is also aware of present difficulties in the areas of marriage, divorce & re-marriage, and how to deal with same-sex relationships. Perhaps Robert, and other Roman Catholic visitors on this site ought to have a look at what is going in… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
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I do commend to RIW a study of the tenth-century Benedictine reforms in England.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
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RIW makes an interesting point, though – that it is always possible so to define ‘true church’ as to exclude anyone you don’t want to share the faith with. Ultramontane Romanism can do this as effortlessly as Westminster Confession zealotry: it’s all about definition….. Not much to do with catholicism, though.

Kurt
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Kurt

“Kurt, the fact is that the old High Church party were as oppposed to the emergence of Anglo-Catholicism as the Evangelicals……as for the Orthodox, I find them in many ways more anti-Catholic, than many evangelicals……Rome’s ecumenical view of them is flawed thinking.”–Robert Ian Williams

Rubbish. Actually, a good case can be made that the Catholic Revival in Anglicanism had much of its beginnings in the American Church, where the old High Church party led the way.

Ford Elm
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Ford Elm

“as for the Orthodox, I find them in many ways more anti-Catholic, than many evangelicals”

I find this a very interesting statement. How so?

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Ford, I think Robert means more anti-Roman Catholic, than merely anti-Catholic. Interestingly though, the present Pope is making some fresh overtures to the Orthodox – both of whose Churches seeming to favour retrospection rather than current Gospel inititiatives.

Mistake me not. I have a great deal of sympathy for both the Orthodox and Roman Churches. It’s just that some of their adherents seem to be a little bit hazy about their understanding of Anglicanism, and therefore defensive in their protestations of doctrinal purity.

BillyD
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Ford, I think that Fr. Smith is on the right track. Some EOs, especially some Russians, can be virulently ant-RCC.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

Fr. Ron and BillyD, I know the antipathy of the Orthodox to the “two horned Devil of Rome”, as the previous Pope was called when he went to Greece. It extends to all Western Christians, who they consider to all be Roman in some sense, even those as virulently anti-Pope as the Orthodox themselves, since all Western Christians are “a”, whether it be “a+”, like Rome, or “a-” like the Protestants. The Orthodox are “b”. (I’ve been reading Kallistos Ware). But, antipathy to Rome is not antiCatholicism, it is merely antipathy to one diocese of the Church Catholic. Granted, it’s… Read more »