Thinking Anglicans

Anglican fragmentation 2

Updated Wednesday evening

Three reports this morning about the forthcoming event in Illinois:

BBC North American Anglicans to split by Christopher Landau
Update this report has now been written-through by editorial staff and retitled North American Anglicans separate.

Christian Science Monitor Conservative bishops propose a competing North American Anglican church by Jane Lampman

Christian Post Breakaway Anglicans Aim for Less Division with New Province by Lillian Kwon

Wednesday evening update

This short Associated Press report: Conservatives form rival group to Episcopal Church

Now superseded by this substantial one by Rachel Zoll Conservatives form rival group to Episcopal Church

New York Times Laurie Goodstein Conservatives Expected to Split Episcopal Church

Chicago Tribune Manya Brachear Schism or stunt? Conservatives form new Anglican denomination

Dallas Morning News Jeffrey Weiss New Anglican-ish province to include Fort Worth?

epiScope has this Statement from The Episcopal Church.

The Anglican Church in North America has published:
Draft Constitution html pdf
Draft Canons html pdf

Telegraph US Anglicans form breakaway church

Daily Mail Anglican Church in U.S. splits in two in row over gay issues

Wall Street Journal Episcopals Form Rival Church

Earlier reports:

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Constitution to reunite conservative Episcopal groups

Canadian Press Breakaway Anglicans to form new North American church

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BobinSWPA
BobinSWPA
12 years ago

I say we have a province for every group with a gripe. Don’t like the your neighboring diocese? Join the Anglican Communion and we see you only make nice with the people you pick and choose. I wonder if they’ll give each member of the CCP their own province when the start picking on each other? (They’ve basically been unified in their disliking of TEC, now they won’t have TEC to bring them together they can take a good long look at each other. Wonder if they’ll like what they see?).

Robert Ian Williams
Robert Ian Williams
12 years ago

Wait until the Anglo-Catholic anti-women’s ordination groupings break away….they will find something to disagree about.

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
12 years ago

“Wait until the Anglo-Catholic anti-women’s ordination groupings break away”

The break between them and the Fundamentalists is the elephant in the living room, isn’t it?

drdanfee
drdanfee
12 years ago

I still find it mildly remarkable that Minns wishes to embrace historic Anglican habits – big tent, diversities, dispersed global Anglican authorities, and all the hermeneutic-theological-ethic variety these familiar notions imply – just so long as he and his sort are clearly running the show to target all the favs like queer folks, women, and progressive citizens of probably many stripes and colors. He is colonial when it comes to outsiders with whom he cannot bear to rub shoulders – especially at common prayer – though he is post-colonial when it comes to his new preachments about getting his authority… Read more »

Andrew
Andrew
12 years ago

The New York Times has an article by Laurie Goodstein. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/us/04episcopal.html?hp There are two excellent quotes: Bishop Minns, a priest who led his large, historic church in Virginia out of the Episcopal Church two years ago and was subsequently ordained a bishop by the Anglican Archbishop of Nigeria, said: “One of the questions a number of the primates are asking is why do we still need to be operating under the rules of an English charity, which is what the Anglican Consultative Council does. Why is England still considered the center of the universe?” BECAUSE this is the Anglican Communion,… Read more »

jnwall
jnwall
12 years ago

JB Chilton points out that they are setting up a new protestant denomination: “Contrary to news reports that a new North American province pledging allegiance to the Anglican Communion is being created today, such is not the case. It is not possible to unilaterally declare yourself to be a province of the Anglican Communion. The AP’s early report is more on target: a new group is forming its own denomination which it says represents true Anglican beliefs. If that denomination wishes to call itself a province that’s a good example of the exercise of doublethink. You can’t name yourself as… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
12 years ago

“confuse and manipulate”

Words to remember about this new Angliklan Church.

JPM
JPM
12 years ago

In the spirit of the Duncanites, I have declared that my back yard is The One and Only Original and Unparalleled Domain of Outer Franistan and I am its Emperor, Seer, Revelator, and Prophet.

All must kneel before me and tremble at my brutal commands!

Hey, it’s just as valid as what the former bishop and his pals did today.

BillyD
12 years ago

” now they won’t have TEC to bring them together”

Bob, whatever are you talking about? Even after they leave, “reasserters” seem unable to stop thinking about, talking about, or posting about TEC/PECUSA. Witness the rather creepy actions of some from SF, who claim to have shaken the Episcopal dust from their sandals but still hang around in cyberspace, – bitching, mostly, about us. They will never not have the Episcopal Church to bring them together.

Roger
Roger
12 years ago

This is a group delusion of an entity that is not an entity. A group of would-be Popes that will not long suffer the competition of their fellow travelers on this path.

I wonder if this is more about thwarted professional ambitions by clerics stalled on their way up the Episcopal ladder. Minns failed to reach the post of Bishop. I think they are, after the law suits are settled, going to take a deep dive into obscurity. Princes without kingdoms to follow them.

peterpi
peterpi
12 years ago

This is rich: According to one of the hyper-linked websites, the new province-in-waiting will allow women to be ordained as priests, but not consecrated as bishops. I wonder how that will sit with the folks who originally split from TEC, because they couldn’t stand women priests. I also wonder how that will sit with all those women priests the dissenters lined up at the public display of unity against gay people a few years ago: “What do you mean no women bishops? We thought you only hated gay people!” The power struggle as to who gets to be the primate… Read more »

Fr Mark
Fr Mark
12 years ago

Andrew: “Indeed, not underserved in the U.S.A”
Or in Europe, Africa or Asia, surely?

Robert Ian Williams
Robert Ian Williams
12 years ago

Just read the Constitutions and the canons…should it not add the word Congregational to its title. Furthermore they obviously don’t trust each other as the property is not owned by the province but by each congregation! That is the the property which has not been stolen from TEC. Please note how Sydney could not sign up, as they do not uniformly administer communion in the element of wine…and neither does the Anglican Church of Nigeria and Rwanda. Note how women can be priests and deacons, but not bishops. Is there any re-affirmation of traditional Anglican polity on divorce and re-marriage…no..because… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Lapinbizarre
12 years ago

The Provisional Constitution lists Forward in Faith, North America as a “founding entity”. FiFNA is a group which encompasses and shelters a diverse membership, including the Traditional Anglican Church (TAC), a full, “affiliate”, member of the organization, and “parishes of the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC); Independent (Ind) Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC); Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), and United Anglican Church (UAC)”, which are listed as “associated” members. In short, a curious grab-bag of churches seems to be getting into the new “province” under the radar, hanging onto the coat-tails of FiFNA.

http://www.forwardinfaith.com/resources/parishes-na.html

Robert Ian Williams
Robert Ian Williams
12 years ago

Just noticed another thing..the clause on the 39 articles are even more literalistic and Protestant than GAFCON…strict interpretation. If Samuel Seabury had given that definition..he would have been arrested as a Tory traitor to the young Republic. So the Anglican Congregational Church of North America accepts the supremacy of the British Crown. I do hope the Anglo-Catholics in the ACNA are dumping their Marian devotions, smashing up their tabernacles and renouncing their pretence to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. My guess is that on her next visit to the States Her Majesty the Queen will be attending morning… Read more »

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
12 years ago

“a curious grab-bag of churches seems to be getting into the new “province” under the radar, hanging onto the coat-tails of FiFNA.” you know, I’ve alwayas been amused at how all these Oh So Very Orthodox, or as Anglicans Online calls them “Not in the Communion”, groups can’t seem to get together and form one group. I mean, a lot of them left over OOW, yet they are still individual little groups, as though they each think their iopposition to OOW is more “orthodox” than that of others. While it IS possible I will not get to be so smug… Read more »

peterpi
peterpi
12 years ago

Robert Ian Williams at 7:33 4 December
Thank you for that information. Regarding their congregational nature I guess even malcontents can have some integrity: “By golly, we stole it fair and square and we’re keeping it to ourselves.”
Although Congegational Anglicans might take some getting used to.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
12 years ago

RIW “renouncing their pretence to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.”

Umm, I know you think I’m as validly ordained as a tin of baked beans, but please refrain from reminding me of that painful fact at every available opportunity as I play my silly ritualistic games.

Forfd Elms
Forfd Elms
12 years ago

“I do hope the Anglo-Catholics in the ACNA are dumping their Marian devotions, smashing up their tabernacles and renouncing their pretence to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.” Oh, they aren’t required to…….yet. But honestly, how long do you think it’ll be before the Consevo ACNA (oh so close to acne, no?) people start making this very demand? I mean, do these Anglo-Catholics really think their Consevo coreligionists are going to tolerate such Romish goings on? My God, if Sydney won’t even allow devotions at the Cross on Good Friday, or a chasuble at any time, then what hope… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
Robert Ian Williams
12 years ago

Not even Ford has picked up on my observation that the ACNA strict definition of the 39 articles would have landed Bishop Seabury in hot water with the US Government in 1787. Sensibly the Protestant Episcopal Church adapted them, and removed their subservience to the English crown.

Not so these would be “true” heirs of Seabury.

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
12 years ago

Just what do they think will happen to them in a body dominated by Consevos (Ford) Asimov (Foundation) has Salvor Hardin tell the story of the horse and the man who unite to defeat the common enemy, the wolf. The horse agrees to take a bridle and saddle to give the man speed. When the wolf is dead, the horse says to the man, ‘now take this off me, our work is done and we can go our separate ways free.’ The man replies, ‘The hell I will. Giddy-up Dobbin’ and applied the spurs. Funnily enough, that was about the… Read more »

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
12 years ago

mynsterpreost, But, in their case, they can, and will, take the saddle off by themselves. This little grouping of the pure will not last, because groupiongs of the pure never do. It’s the joke of the guy trying to talk someone out of committing suicide off a bridge: Are you a Christian? Yes. So am I, see we have something in common. Are you Protestant? Yes. See, something else we have in common. What kind of Protestant? Baptist. So am I!, See, another thing in common. Traditional Baptist or Reformed Baptist? Reformed Baptist. Great, something else in common. See, with… Read more »

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