Thinking Anglicans

primates meeting approaches

Updated yet again Friday afternoon

The forthcoming meeting in Alexandria, reported earlier here, starts next Sunday.

Some further reports have appeared:

Anglican Journal Marites N Sison Hiltz to update other primates on state of Canadian church

Times Online Ruth Gledhill Anglican primates to meet in Egypt

The meeting will be held at the Helnan Palestine Hotel, “a five stars deluxe hotel with a unique location on the Mediterranean Sea”.

Updates

Religious Intelligence George Conger Primates’ Meeting to avoid divisive issues

Lambeth Palace (via ACO) Archbishop of Canterbury’s visit to North Africa

Times Online Ruth Gledhill Plans for new province in US opposed by senior Anglican

Living Church George Conger Welsh Primate: New Province is ‘Total Nonsense’

Friday morning

Church Times Pat Ashworth Primates to meet in Egypt behind closed doors

…Canon Kearon confirmed on Wednesday that no paper had so far been received from the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON) Primates concerning the pro posed Anglican Province in North America. A report in The Living Church this week said: “Bishop Duncan said the GAFCON Primates will present a paper and make the case of an alternative province.”

Canon Kearon emphasised that the agenda was a draft, that it was in the hands of the Primates, and was often rearranged. “We haven’t received a paper,” he said. “If it’s an application by the new entity in the US to join [the Communion] we would deal with [put ting it on to the agenda] in a business session if appropriate, but they might decide other wise if we haven’t been notified of it.”

Religion News Service Daniel Burke Anglicans Set to Consider Rival North American Church

Conservative Anglicans say they do not expect their new North American church to receive official approval from Anglican archbishops who will convene next week (Feb. 1-5) in Alexandria, Egypt.

“We do expect that our situation will be discussed,” said the Rev. Peter Frank, a spokesman for the newly established Anglican Church in North America (ACNA). “At the same time, it would be very surprising if there was some kind of quick, game-changing action.”

… To date, only five primates, most from Africa, where Anglicans lean conservative on sexual issues, have publicly sanctioned the new North American church.

Bishop Martyn Minns, a leader in ACNA, said he expects more primates to approve the rival church after it has ratified its constitution in June. “They’re going to wait until we’re up and running,” he said.

Jim Naughton, director of communications for the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, said: “I don’t think there’s any chance of two-thirds of the primates expressing desire to legitimize this thing in any capacity.”

Friday afternoon

A crucial analysis of the forthcoming meeting is in the cartoon at The Primates Meeting: How personal disorganisation is splitting the Anglican Church.

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Eric Schnaufer
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Eric Schnaufer

Interesting that in a world financial crises the primates meet in luxury.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“A new traditionalist grouping from North America, led by deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop, will also present a new constitution and canons to the Primates in an attempt to secure recognition as the 39th province of the 77-million strong Church.” – Ruth Gledhill – Times on Line How, possibly, can a Primates Meeting of the AC include a presentation by a deposed Bishop of one of the provincial bodies (TEC) – especially when the ex-bishop has no authority within the Province where he was once a bishop? Ms. Gledhill also says that “..no… Read more »

riazat butt
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@Eric – the Helnan is not the most luxurious hotel in Alexandria – that’s the four seasons. altho helnan is rated number two on tripadvisor. wierdly tho the four seasons is cheaper. hmm.

toby forward
Guest

Personally, I love a bit of luxury, but this does seem to me to be an unwise choice of venue, under the circumstances and given the agenda paper.
I hope they’re starting every day with Bible study. I sugest Proverbs xv:17 for starters.

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

“deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop”

“Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I am OZ the MAGNIFICENT!”

What does ex-bishop Dunkin’ think he’s Archbishop of?

more seriously, if it is true that they will not share the one thing that defines the Anglican Communion – the Eucharistic Feast – then the Anglican ‘Communion’ has very little reality to hang on to.

Ren Aguila
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Ren Aguila

On a minor pedantic note, Sisson should be spelled Sison. Thanks!

Prior Aelred
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The primates have refused to participate in a common Eucharist for the past six years — no “Communion” in the “Communion,” alas.

JCF
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JCF

I have engaged in some Nervous Nellyisms ;-/ (about the Primates Meeting, and the “5 Primates Reflect” presentation therein), here: http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/anglican_communion/abc_asks_5_primates_for_reflec.html

drdanfee
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drdanfee

Quote. Still, we might remember that difficult as all of this is, the Anglican Communion does not rest on the Primates being in fellowship. The Anglican Communion is about churches in relation, in relation about real concerns and hopes for mission. Common action around the “five marks of mission” is a better plumb line by which to measure the health of the Communion than any measure of consensus among the Primates. Unquote.

From comments on blog Preludium by Mark Harris.

Me? Ditto.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“The agenda for next week’s 2009 Primates’ Meeting will avoid taking action on the problems dividing the Anglican Communion, focussing its energies on discussion on how to discuss keeping the truth claim alive within the church.” -George Conger – ‘Religious Intelligence’ – If George is right on this one (and ‘Religious Intelligence’ is known to be astray on occasion) then there can be no decision made about the GAFCON request for a separate Province in North America. Any decision on this seems to have been pronounced a non-starter (decision avoided). On the subject of any provision to invite GAFCON leadership… Read more »

Shoemaker
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Shoemaker

Well….is anyone surprised that the ABC will want Bishop Duncan also still at the table talking? That’s always been his goal…..all views always at the table talking – no decisions, just talking….

Clearly, most Primates have not changed their views since 2003…..so TEC has to find a way to stay in Rowan’s club. Fact is that TEC is too small to be relevant (even in the US) outside the AC and so it will sign whatever Williams asks to be signed in order to stay in …..eg BO33 (brave, principled stance from TEC???)

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

“Surely, to receive Bob Duncan as an ‘Archbishop’ in good standing in the Communion would be a move that might be considered provocative by TEC, if not by the other Primates?”

OK – what does he claim to be archbishop OF?

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

Cynthia – below-quoted is an extract from the article by Ruth Gledhill, mentioned above: “A new traditionalist grouping from North America, led by deposed Pittsburgh bishop Bob Duncan who now styles himself as their Archbishop, will also present a new constitution and canons to the Primates in an attempt to secure recognition as the 39th province of the 77-million strong Church.” So, Cynthia, in answer to your question it seems that the CANA convenors are happy, for the moment, to defer to former Bishop Bob as their putative archbishop. Of course, he has not yet been canonically appointed Archbishop of… Read more »

Pluralist
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Shouldn’t Shoemaker be International Banker now in London and attends at HTB?

This is quite interesting regarding the strategy of said Rowan Williams:

http://accurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2008/11/understanding-rowan-williams-for-first.html

JPM
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JPM

Ron, the deposed bishop of Pittsburgh actually refers to himself now as “Archbishop-designate.”

Many of us have long believed that all this drama was ultimately about creating something for Bobby to be head of.

Simon Sarmiento
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Ren
Thanks for the correction, now fixed.

Rev L Roberts
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Rev L Roberts

If ‘TEC is too small to be relevant’ Shoemaker why all the fuss ?

Rev L Roberts
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Rev L Roberts

In Britain there are words for people who are appointed to the archiepiscopate by – erm – themselves ! …

Rev L Roberts
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Rev L Roberts

‘ . . Many participants believed that the indaba method, while not designed to achieve final decisions, was such a necessary aspect of understanding what the questions might be’.

Yes this is real progress – though long resisted through the Carey years.

‘understanding what the real questions might be’
as a religious conservative I support this whole-heartedly.

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

BUT ACNA is liberal..no fault divorce, contraception and women priests…..

JPM
Guest
JPM

But Robert, ACNA is A-OK on the one doctrine that really matters to these people: no (honest) fags allowed.

That is their sole test of orthodoxy.

drdanfee
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drdanfee

Thanks for the curmodgeon link. I still do not quite know what I think of Rowan Williams. I guess some of that will unfold as the covenant thang slowly goes forward. I still do not understand how Rowan thinks he will help construct a new, fair, peaceful, open Anglican space by pronouncing that space mainly interested in and welcoming of the high comforts and needs of straight folks, while keeping the queer folks (as small a minority as they are) in limbo or outside of the new, improved Anglican global space being covenanted. Then policed. If Rowan thinks that traditionalistic… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

ACNA the Church for helping lawyers…..how they must sing , what a friend we have in Jesus.

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

Sorry got the song wrong…its Where have all the lawyers gone ? Gone to ACNA everyone……when will they ever learn, we shaft them every time……apologies to where have all the flowers gone.