Thinking Anglicans

after GC: press releases

Several groups have issued press releases.

Chicago Consultation: Chicago Consultation Statement on the 76th General Convention

Integrity: Integrity USA Achieves Its Goals At General Convention 2009

Anglican Communion Institute: Committing to the Anglican Communion: Some Will, Others Won’t

Fulcrum: Fulcrum Response to TEC General Convention 2009 Resolution C056:
official promotion of a process to develop liturgies for the blessing of same-sex unions

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Lapinbizarre
Lapinbizarre
12 years ago

“Anglican Communion Institute” or “Tokyo Rose Institute”?

Charlotte
Charlotte
12 years ago

Observe the brazen manner in which Fulcrum chooses to rewrite history: “As outlined above, the rest of the Communion has – in faithfulness to Christ’s call to seek reconciliation – walked patiently with our brothers and sisters in TEC for many years, constantly inviting them to turn around in freedom and relocate themselves within the story of God that we collectively tell as a Communion, a story in which mutual subjection out of reverence for Christ, synodality, and mutual interdependence play key roles. At every stage attempts have been made to interpret TEC responses to requests as generously as possible.”… Read more »

Charlotte
Charlotte
12 years ago

I see that Fulcrum has had to shift the grounds of its latest argument for the expulsion of TEC from the Communion. Bishop Wright’s impulsive, hair-trigger reaction to D025 has embarrassed them pretty thoroughly. Their choice now is between calling the Presiding Bishop of TEC a liar, and admitting that D025 in fact changes nothing. The first option, while routine on the blogosphere, would go down badly if said by one Primate, or even would-be Primate, to another. So nothing more is being said about D025 as a pretext for schism. So, reasons Fulcrum, let’s try same-sex blessings; let’s see… Read more »

WilliamK
WilliamK
12 years ago

The Fulcrum quote Charlotte posted makes me wonder if they have chosen George Orwell as their patron saint. It certainly sounds like something straight from the Ministry of Truth.

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
12 years ago

The Fulcrum piece is shoddy, take this paragraph for example: “There will now be wider experimentation as part of an officially promoted process involving the House of Bishops which seeks to consider, collect and develop “liturgical resources for the blessing of same gender relationships”. This process appears to be headed ultimately towards authorisation of a GC-approved rite. The final clause and the decision to remove any explicit right to conscientious objection also suggests that all dioceses will be expected to participate in this process.” This sort of careless analysis unhelpful guesswork and desire to pre-judge outcomes has a very “political”… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
choirboyfromhell
12 years ago

“It certainly sounds like something straight from the Ministry of Truth.”

LOL You sure you don’t mean the Ministry of Magic of Cornelius Fudge perhaps?

Hugh of Lincoln
Hugh of Lincoln
12 years ago

The elephant in the nave in the current discussion is women bishops. The Bishop of Durham made a last-ditch attempt to delay discussion of the issue in York last year, describing Synod as a “blunt instrument”. The same could be said of the General Convention votes – the price we pay for the democratic element in Anglican decision-making. This was why the mood in Anaheim (as no doubt in York) was described as ‘sombre’. The Windsor Report is a tired and dated document. In the five years since it was written, the UK has seen a dramatic change in legislation… Read more »

Judith Maltby
Judith Maltby
12 years ago

The grandly self-styled ‘Anglican Communion Institute’ does appear to be almost entirely a boys brigade, tho includes one lay woman (without a doctorate or in a university or theological college position – tho neither are many of the chaps, it would appear) and no women priests or bishops among its ‘contributing theologians’. What is that about? I suspect it reflects the ‘optional extra’, or or ‘second order’ as it is so paronizingly called, of women’s ordination. In some ways I get that, i.e. it isn’t up there with the Trinity or the Real Presence, but why isn’t the ordination of… Read more »

Spirit of Vatican II
12 years ago

Most outsiders cannot begin to grasp the legalistic entanglements of the debate around Windsor et al. But two points strike me: (1) those who take their stand on legal niceties should be observers of the law themselves, and it seems that the “conservative” side in the debate is even less Windsor-compliant (if that is the expression) than the “liberals”; (2) in Christianity love trumps law, and the side which pays no attention to the human needs of the people affected by the law is the unchristian side.

Pluralist
12 years ago

The Fulcrum statement yet again is obsessed by religious bureaucracy.

http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/07/this-what-annoys-me.html

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
12 years ago

As Dr Maltby says, these are a small band of brothers – somewhat discredited by false claims and unfortunate associations.

But Judith, it is these countercasters who have seen their election to important Communion Commissions and nominated to vacant sees.

They are prepared to set the debate by instant, if rather crappy, responses. They steal the agenda even though their assertions are often full of lies and bear false witness aainst their Christian sisters and brothers.

Miserably almost the entire British academic world, with the exception of their Fulcrum allies!, has made any impact whatsoever. it is so sad.

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
12 years ago

We do badly need a genuine Ministry of Truth, i.e. one that lives up to its name. I don’t know whether anyone has seen the spoof Piccadilly Line poster on the tube. Like some other spoofs (Frederick C. Clews’s ‘Postmodern Pooh’; Tina Fey’s lampooning of Sarah Palin) it consists entirely or largely of genuine material: in this case, of proposed buildings or projects that never got off the ground. The Ministry of Truth has its place in this map, together with (from memory) a couple of other Ministries: Integrity etc.. Now, no-one could possibly deny in the wake of recent… Read more »

Mark B
Mark B
12 years ago

The maintaining of moratoria continues to be one-sided from Fulcrum, with no mention whatsoever of the consecration of extra-provincial ‘sound’ bishops.

Charlotte
Charlotte
12 years ago

And if I could add to Martin Reynolds’ comment at 10:05am BST — It strikes me that the debate has taken a new turn among the general public in Britain. More and more the Communion troubles have become a reason for mocking and scoffing at Christianity altogether, as merely a collection of irrational taboos held by narrow-minded bigots. I’m on somewhat shaky grounds in making this claim, because my evidence consists of eyeballed surveys of the comments to British newspaper articles on the Communion conflict. But it looks as though that’s what’s happening. This is not a good thing for… Read more »

Philip Wainwright
12 years ago

Both Martin Reynolds and Hugh of Lincoln mention changes in the law as though Christian standards were bound to change as a result, and I’ve seen other posts to the same effect, especially on TA. I don’t see the force of this–as far as I know, it would not be against any law for me to tell my wife I was working late when in fact I was playing poker, but I assume Christians of all sorts would say the fact that it wasn’t against the law didn’t mean it was acceptable Christian behaviour. Has anyone actually made a case… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
Pat O'Neill
12 years ago

And, in your view, Christopher, who is most responsible for the lack of “whole truth” in this discussion? Somehow, I doubt you think that those who share your views regarding the full participation of our gay brothers and sisters in the life of the church are the ones mostly at fault.

David |dah•veed|
David |dah•veed|
12 years ago

There is a bit of TEC polity that you lot are missing and so I wish to point it out so that you are more aware of it. There is no letter from the Presiding Bishop to the ABC! There is a letter from the presiding officers of the two houses of TEC General Convention; Bonnie Anderson, D.D., President of the House of Deputies, and the Most Revd. Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop; http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/D025%20letter%20to%20Archbishop.pdf A second point is that D025 is not about the House of Bishops doing anything. The D in the resolution number alerts you to the fact… Read more »

Fr Mark
Fr Mark
12 years ago

Meanwhile, the BBC reports today http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8158469.stm on the alarming rise in HIV amongst gay Africans, and lays the blame largely at the double lives necessitated by the culture of taboo on homosexuality, which we Anglicans by our acquiescence to a culture of Untruth and Hypocrisy are perpetuating.

Do any bishops or other ecclesiastical luminaries care enough about people or the Gospel to be interested in dispelling taboo rather than wasting their energies on enforcing it?

Spirit of Vatican II
12 years ago

In Integrity’s statement the reference to 33 years was saddening. Progress is so slow that one may die before seeing the land of promise. 40 years since the moon landing, and the expected sequels never happened. 50 years since John XXIII announced a Council and ecumenism is almost non-existent…

Hugh of Lincoln
Hugh of Lincoln
12 years ago

David, as part of the pre-Lambeth welcoming of bishops, the Presiding Bishop preached at the main Sunday services in Salisbury Cathedral (where one of the C of E’s most senior female priests is Dean) and at St Martin’s-in-the-Fields, Trafalgar Square.

Mark B
Mark B
12 years ago

The Presiding Bishop preached in Salisbury Cathedral last July – in the presence of 20+ bishops from the Sudan – she processed in cope and mitre alongside the Archbishop of the Sudan; the best possible welcome was accorded her – a press conference took place with together with Bp Kate Goldsworthy and the Dean of Salisbury.

JPM
JPM
12 years ago

Fr. Mark, he so-called “orthodox” will, no doubt, point to that rise in HIV infections as an example of divine justice.

Simon Robert Dawson
Simon Robert Dawson
12 years ago

David asked “The CoE does not recognize female bishops. +Katharine is not welcome in England as a bishop or a primate. Do you know of any setting, other than tolerated as an attendee at Lambeth Conference that she has been welcome in England? Anywhere that she has preached or presided?” +Katharine visited Salisbury Cathedral before Lambeth, as a guest of the dean, the Very Revd June Osborne. She took part in various services, although I am not sure of the exact details of what she was allowed to do. She also took part in a “meet +Katharine” session one evening… Read more »

christopher+
christopher+
12 years ago

Fr. Mark, We Anglicans do not even wish to admit our tacit complicity in driving young LGBT people in our own communities to self-hatred and – sadly, far too often, suicide – while also unwittingly condoning violence against them by constantly proclaiming in word and deed that LGBT people are ostensibly not supposed to exist in the first place. We are hardly going to wish to admit that we are also contributing to double lives and the spread of HIV in places far away with the very same messages. That would be far too honest – and far too upsetting… Read more »

David |dah•veed|
David |dah•veed|
12 years ago

Thank you Mark & Hugh.

I should have limited my comment to episcopal functions. She cannot serve in the capacity of a bishop in England. So she would not be invited to participate in confirmations or ordinations in England.

Likewise, it has been said that a roaming English bishop would not be able to assist in the consecration of a female bishop in an Anglican province that extends the episcopacy to women.

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
12 years ago

I am sure we would not want to encourage Philip to think that a trip to Thinking Anglicans dispenses him from fidelity! Perhaps I might suggest another analogy to him. Anti-miscegenation laws were common until relatively recently, where these laws changed it often caused deep challenges to people’s deeply held convictions and these were often clergy and congregations of deeply “traditional” churches. I am sure the legal changes did not convince many people that interacial marriage was right, moral or God’s will indeed some people in your country fought against the change and as late as 1913 a Democratic Repesentative… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
Martin Reynolds
12 years ago

I am sure we would not want to encourage Philip to think that a trip to Thinking Anglicans dispenses him from fidelity! Perhaps I might suggest another analogy to him. Anti-miscegenation laws were common until relatively recently, where these laws changed it often caused deep challenges to people’s deeply held convictions and these were often clergy and congregations of deeply “traditional” churches. I am sure the legal changes did not convince many people that interacial marriage was right, moral or God’s will indeed some people in your country fought against the change and as late as 1913 a Democratic Repesentative… Read more »

Judith Maltby
Judith Maltby
12 years ago

PB Katherine preached and presided at Ripon College Cuddesdon last summer just prior to the Lambeth Conference. Hurrah!

MikeM
MikeM
12 years ago

I would agree with you, Charlotte – I struggled for years with the whole notion of the institution of the AC, with its Boys Brigades and the display of regimental flags, etc. Finally I decided that I was taking too much offense, and wanted to ‘get on with it’ rather than just prevaricating for apparently superficial reasons. But Lo! Just as I enter the AC, in its fundamentals it is starting to represent the picture you paint; I don’t much care about the mocking (I have been mocked for holding other views, why not for these!) but the charges that… Read more »

Ford Elms
Ford Elms
12 years ago

Philip Wainwright: “Both Martin Reynolds and Hugh of Lincoln mention changes in the law as though Christian standards were bound to change as a result, and I’ve seen other posts to the same effect, especially on TA.” Indeed you have. And you have also seen other posts on TA that say quite clearly that we should make our decisions based on our discernment of God’s will for the Church, not on what society says. I know because I have posted some of them. You have also seen other posts from people who believe God works in His own way, and… Read more »

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
12 years ago

Hi Pat-
The answer to your question is to be found in my original comment. Broadly: whoever sees most dimensions of a question is closest to the truth; whoever sees fewest is furthest away. There is little or no chance that this will correlate with any one ideological group all the time. (in fact, in the interests of scholarship and integrity, anyone would seriousl advises against people belonging to ideological groups at all.)

Father Ron Smith
12 years ago

“In my judgment a, or the, leading characteristic of truth (besides truthfulness) is maximal comprehensiveness: the characteristic that spawned the phrase ‘the whole truth’. Related to this is the ability to put oneself in the shoes of different parties” – Christopher Shell – Having just dropped back in from the ‘outside world’, I noted the above surprising statement by Christopher Shell. I must admit I am at a loss to understand this as being the true mind of the writer – having observed his former insularity on the subject of gays in ministry (amongst other assorted shibboleths) which would seem… Read more »

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
12 years ago

Hi Fr Ron- I don’t know what ‘shibboleths’ you are referring to, but I would be surprised if they were actually shibboleths as opposed to things taken very seriously by Jesus and by the Father to whom he prayed. If you can think of any that don’t fit into that category, fire away. Surely entrenched positions are no less and no more ‘insular’ and polarised than one another. But are you showing a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of debate? The worst thing in debate (unless one is not a lover of truth/accuracy, which one should be) is to be… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
12 years ago

Dear Christopher (Shell), I suppose my main trouble with what you contribute on this site (in response, mainly, to the contributions of other people) is that you are clearly in it for the opportunity to play word games. Scrabble and didactic discourses on logical sequence and biblical inerrancy are hardly the material of impassioned debate. Most of us on this site are not looking for correction of our (sometimes) deficient presentational nicety. Rather, we are looking for inspirational input from fellow Anglicans (are you, by any chance, a fellow Anglican?) who are concerned for the direction in which our Church… Read more »

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
12 years ago

Hi Fr Ron- The way that one finds the truth in any debate is in the first instance by eliminating the self-contradictory. Chillingly, there are some people who do not believe that finding the truth is the name of the game at all. But for those who realise that it is, logic is their best friend, together of course with compassion. If one opposes compassion to logic, one ends up with unfairness/injustice. Logic and compassion are friends. I would be amazed if you found any time where I emphasised biblical inerrancy. You’ve got the wrong guy, though we all recognise… Read more »

Christopher Shell
Christopher Shell
12 years ago

Perhaps it would be more memorable if I made the same point in fewer words: Prof EMB Green wrote that it does not matter what regiment one is in so long as one is in the army. Which is obviously true. Supposing the Coldstream Guards knew little about any other part of the army -let alone the actual battle- and busied themselves with their own [relatively] little constitutions, analysis of point D025 etc.. Would they not be guilty of several things?- (1) inward-looking navel-gazing is the first stage of withering up altogether; (2) the smaller one’s view is, the less… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
Pat O'Neill
12 years ago

And, in your view, Christopher, who is most responsible for the lack of “whole truth” in this discussion? Somehow, I doubt you think that those who share your views regarding the full participation of our gay brothers and sisters in the life of the church are the ones mostly at fault.

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