Thinking Anglicans

Indian Ocean archbishop also writes to Canterbury

We reported earlier on the letter from the Archbishop of Uganda to the Archbishop of Canterbury. And even earlier there was a letter from the Bishop of Egypt, which we reported here.

Now the Archbishop of the Province of the Indian Ocean, The Most Revd Ian Ernest, who is Bishop of Mauritius, has written to the Archbishop of Canterbury as well.

Read his letter in full here.

Also, ENS has INDIAN OCEAN: Primate suspends ‘all communication’ with Episcopal Church, Anglican Church of Canada.

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Counterlight
Counterlight
11 years ago

This gay Episcopalian doesn’t care.

The Anglican Communion ended in Dar es Salaam when one group of bishops pronounced our bishops unclean and anathema and refused communion with them.

It’s over and time to move on.

Father Ron Smith
11 years ago

“As Archbishop of the Province of the Indian Ocean and the chair-person of CAPA, I feel that I should express the heartfelt feelings of the people of God who are extremely distressed at the disrespectful and high-handed manner in which the TEC continues to dismiss the concerns of the rest of the Communion and to undermine the decisions taken by the Primates” – Abp. Ian Ernest (Indiana Ocean) – And what about the people of God who still resent the high-handed manner in which certain CAPA Primates have invaded the territory of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada in… Read more »

JCF
JCF
11 years ago

[Quoted in the ENS story] “”How can we expect the gross violators of biblical truth to sanction their own discipline when they believe they have done nothing wrong and further insist that their revisionist theology is actually the substance of Anglicanism?” Orombi wrote.” See, this is the thing I don’t get. If someone believes they are acting morally then—even if I disagree w/ their behavior—I *WANT* to hear their arguments for it. It’s precisely because TEC (and the AngChCanada) believe it’s acting morally (according to Scripture, Tradition and Reason), by affirming LGBT people in all orders/sacraments, that these Primates are… Read more »

Charlotte
Charlotte
11 years ago

Agreed. The Church of England and the Communion Partner bishops are coming to the next Global South meeting, along with representatives of ACNA. So: let them have their Communion; we need to move on.

David G
11 years ago

It’s like Kindergarten class. Lehrer, er schaute auf mich!!

Priscilla Cardinale
Priscilla Cardinale
11 years ago

Poor man, he thinks that his harrumphing and posturing mean something outside of his own circle. The total lack of Christian charity in which he speaks of TEC and ACC belies his own faulty version of Christianity and lack of humility and grace. By his fruits you shall know him. Who does he think he is issuing such ultimatums? Sad little man, I will pray for you.

susan hedges
susan hedges
11 years ago

They really want control and purity, purity, purity! I agree with Counterlight.

Erp
Erp
11 years ago

Ended or split? The Anglican Communion may remain but smaller the first question is who will still be in communion with the ABC and can claim the title Anglican and who not. The second question is which group is going to accept fully their LGBTI members.

Anglo-Catholic
Anglo-Catholic
11 years ago

Ernest and Co. are preaching hatred and bigotry. This archbishop’s words are as un-Christian as possible. It is time for the real Anglican Communion to move on and leave these neanderthals to pursue the path of inevitable extinction. TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada are the real beacons of hope, the true followers of Christ. So which path will Canterbury choose: Christ, or the prejudice and hate of Archbishop Ernest?

Malcolm+
11 years ago

Oh dear. Off his Christmas card list, are we? Whatever shall we do?

(My recommendation: go back to sleep.)

Marshall Scott
11 years ago

Well, at least this time the Canadians have been included in the complaint.

MarkBrunson
11 years ago

Cutting himself off from us.

Excellent way to learn nothing.

Indian Ocean stagnates and we continue to breathe fresh.

Their new masters will soon give them all the communication they can bear.

Chris Smith
Chris Smith
11 years ago

If anything, I believe it is a badge of honor for the American Episcopal Church and The Anglican Church of Canada to have taken the positions they have taken. I am a Vatican II Catholic and I see their positions as clearly in line with Christ’s inclusive love by their inclusion of women and gay people in all aspects of its’ ordained and consecrated life in the Church. I agree with the poster in this thread “Counterlight”, that it is probably time to move on and embrace the future. It is time to distance ourselves from the hatred of Fundamentalist… Read more »

karen macqueen+
karen macqueen+
11 years ago

So the strategy of the fundamentalist hierarchs in the Communion is now stated openly. We have it from the GAFCON letter, from Henry Orombi of the province of Uganda – the death to gays people – (whose gall evidently knows no bounds), from Mouneer Anis, and now from Ian Earnest. The fundamentalist Primates have arrogated to themselves an entirely self-created authority to decide correct biblical interpretation for all other provinces; to set the terms of orthodoxy; to excommunicate other provinces; to install their fellow fundamentalists and benefactors as substitute provinces; and to rule the Communion. I would be very surprised… Read more »

cryptogram
cryptogram
11 years ago

Charlotte writes: “The Church of England and the Communion Partner bishops are coming to the next Global South meeting”.

The Global South website may say that, but the CofE is not attending, though the usual suspects (Sugden et al) almost certainly will be. If there are any CofE bishops there it will be the (retired) Nazir-Ali and/or +Wally Lewes who count as “usual suspects”. There is no official representation. Do remember that not only is the GS economical with the truth, but what little it employs is almost invariably slanted to give a wholly inaccurate impression.

badman
badman
11 years ago

All three of the letter writers (Mouneer Anis, Orombi and Ernest) have specifically attacked the Standing Committee. This is the only basis on which they can discredit the Anglican Covenant. The chronology of the development of the Covenant to date (which is set out on the Anglican Communion website at http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/index.cfm) shows that the Standing Committee’s role has been particularly decisive in the most recent stages, which have moved away (perhaps not enough) from the top-down punitive model favoured by conservatives as a means of expelling TEC. These letters must surely be linked to the much trailed Global South meeting… Read more »

badman
badman
11 years ago

Note this from the Global South encounter steering group: “We aim to affirm the Anglican Covenant as the basis in intensifying the ecclesial life between churches in the Communion, and explore ways churches should stand firm side by side in one spirit and with one mind for the faith of the Gospel of Lord Jesus Christ.” “The Steering Committeee emphasised that provincial and invited participants should be unequivocally committed to uphold the spirit and intent of the 1998 Lambeth Resolution 1.10 and the proposed Anglican Covenant (full Ridley Draft).” Got that? “full Ridley Draft”. That’s an old draft which has… Read more »

Revd Roger Antell
Revd Roger Antell
11 years ago

It is with sadness that I read Archbishop Ian’s letter, but it is with even more regret that I have read the comments attacking him in personal terms on this site. Archbishop Ian’s letter is one of comparative gentleness compared to the overheated tone of others that some primates have written, and that is entirely consistent with this good man’s character. The personal bile with which some have reacted is uncalled for, and I trust will be reconsidered. Archbishop Ian has always attempted to be one who held different sides together, fully committed, as he himself says, to the Anglican… Read more »

Lionel Deimel
11 years ago

The question now is what will the ABC do. He is no doubt bracing for more of this same rhetoric from the upcoming Global South to South Encounter. He may want to wait for that other shoe to drop. Does he then really have the option of saying nothing? Will he try to deflect the criticism? Will he give in? Will he develop a spine? Probably not.

Fr John
Fr John
11 years ago

At the season of Eastertide, when we again meet the Risen Christ, as he calls ‘Mary’ by her name; and tells her to go and tell the disciples the good news of the Risen Christ. It is so sad that certain prelates, that is what they wish to be; try telling the world what is right and what is wrong from their uncharitable minds. Whilst the episcopal church of America, the child of the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Anglican church of Canada reflect the love of the Risen Christ for all people. They like Christ call all by their name… Read more »

Fr John
Fr John
11 years ago

As we struggle with the fundamentalist approach to scripture, a great ray of light has appeared in a book by Stephen Cottrell; Bishop of Reading, and soon to be diocesan bishop of Chelmsford. His slim book entitled ‘The Things He Said’ The Story of the First Easter Day, published by SPCK,is a spiritually uplifting and challenging as we face the many questions Jesus asked of his disciples, and of us in his resurrection appearances. Its a book I cannot put down
A good antidote to all the drivel fromm some ares of the episcopacy in the Anglican Communion.

Fr John

badman
badman
11 years ago

Further to my earlier comments above: The responses to the Ridley draft can be accessed from http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/covenant/responses/index.cfm It will be seen that most of the Global South provinces did not bother to respond at all. However, those that did, including the Indian Ocean and the Southern Cone, did NOT accept the Ridley draft section 4. They wanted it to have stronger powers to expel, and for those who did not sign up to the Covenant to be expelled ipso facto, etc. It is therefore even more odd that they should ALL have been deemed to sign up to this (superseded)… Read more »

Dallas Bob
Dallas Bob
11 years ago

The Episcopal Church is not affiliated with Pat Robertson or Rick Warren and we get along just fine. When the Anglican Communion becomes nothing more than fundamentalist extremists in robes, why do we want to be associated with them? It is frankly emabarrassing to be tied with the extremists in the Anglican Communion, and it makes it more difficult for TEC to reach thoughtful people who want something more than the facile theology promoted by the ultra conservatives. The Anglican Communion used to be an association of Churches whose titular head was the ABC. Now it has degenerated into another… Read more »

Roland Smith
Roland Smith
11 years ago

As usual, the proponents on this list represent the so-called best of Christian charity and grace for opinions other than their own. I’m not sure on which side of the debate the hubris is greater! And yet for all of its activism for GLBT concerns, the TEC and ACC continue to shrink at a rate greater than most churches. And no, I’m not against the fair and equitable treatment of GLBT. My critique is the high minded manner in which TEC and ACC have dismissed the concerns of the rest of the Anglican Communion. Both these churches only appeal to… Read more »

Counterlight
Counterlight
11 years ago

You can’t have a communion of independent churches held together by bonds of mutual affection when there is none.

Who left who standing alone at the altar?

Those who favor union under the iron hand of hierarchical authoritarianism should take a good look at the current troubles in the Roman Church, troubles compounded by institutional opacity and contempt for public opinion.

Göran Koch-Swahne
11 years ago

“The Anglican Communion ended in Dar es Salaam …”

It ended at Dromantine.

peterpi
peterpi
11 years ago

“I feel that I should express the heartfelt feelings of the people of God who are extremely distressed at the disrespectful and high-handed manner in which the TEC continues to dismiss the concerns of the rest of the Communion … (blah, blah, blah)” My, my! ++Ian Ernest sure knows how to put the “arch” in “Archbishop”. Perhaps earnest Ian can tell us the last time TEC interfered in his province’s decision making? Expressed profound regret at its high-handed selection of bishops? If TEC ever did, you’d hear wailing and gnashing of teeth about colonialism and imperialism. But it’s perfectly OK… Read more »

Chris Smith
Chris Smith
11 years ago

I would not expect to see much backbone from the Archbishop of Canterbury regarding the letters he received from these right wing primates. It is a sad and telling state of affairs. Nothing on the Archbishop of Canterbury’s website remotely addresses this current development. This is disappointing. We should not be surprised if Rowan says nothing. In doing so, he alienates so many Christians. If he shows empathy for the right wingers, he does so at his own peril because eventually, they will eat him alive.

Rev Laurence Roberts
Rev Laurence Roberts
11 years ago

‘my critique (sic) is the high minded manner in which TEC and ACC have dismissed the concerns of the rest of the Anglican Communion.’ Posted by: Roland Smith on Wednesday, 14 April 2010 at 4:03pm BST Oh yes, they’ve been so precipitate, so speedy and so high-minded that I’m in the final chapter or two of my life ! If TEC had pandered to the prejudices of world wide anglican praxis I would have been dead and buried for sure ! Roland Smith’s support’ of LGBT folk sounds more professed than a reality. Did I get that wrong ? I… Read more »

Fr Mark
Fr Mark
11 years ago

Roland Smith: I’m not sure that shrinking has anything to do with it. The C of E is shrinking fast, and yet has not adopted liberal policies on women bishops and gay people; the RC Church in Europe is shrinking fastest of all, and is the most illiberal.

I don’t think there’s much connection between being liberal/conservative and short-term numbers change, though I do think that in the long-term, credibility is lastingly damaged by, for example, Cardinal Bertone’s attempt to blame child abuse on homosexuality, or Michael Scott-Joynt’s opposition to equal rights legislation.

Rev Laurence Roberts
Rev Laurence Roberts
11 years ago

But walking away from one another as Christians, however much we disagree, can too easily suggest that God walks away from us because we are too bad to be with.

Posted by: Revd Roger Antell on Wednesday, 14 April 2010 at 12:37pm BST

Yes, but are they Christians ?

I have my doubts alas.

Rev Laurence Roberts
Rev Laurence Roberts
11 years ago

think we see what is happening here.

Quotation from
http://www.globalsouthanglican.org/index.php/comments/the_fourth_anglican_global_south_to_south_encounter_19th_-_23rd_april_2010_/

Posted by: badman on Wednesday, 14 April 2010

I don’t….

JCF
JCF
11 years ago

“And yet for all of its activism for GLBT concerns, the TEC and ACC continue to shrink at a rate greater than most churches.”

“most churches”: when even the RCC (apart from immigration) and the Southern Baptists are shrinking in the US? [Or are you comparing apples to oranges, Roland, re the demographics of different parts of the world?]

Feh, I really don’t care about demographics anyway. We’re called to ***increase in Faith***, sharing the Love of Christ w/ the world. If we’re doing that—and, by God’s Grace, I believe in TEC we ARE—then membership will take care of itself.

Chris Smith
Chris Smith
11 years ago

Even the southern Baptists are losing large numbers because people are so turned off by the narrow and hate filled interpretation of the Bible. The Episcopal Church in America and The Anglican Church of Canada are beacons of hope for the disenfranchised and marginalized people on this good Earth. Christ would be standing with these very same people. He would not be using violent and hate filled language to EXCLUDE them from His Church.

Susannah Clark
11 years ago

We are one in Christ

Rev Laurence Roberts
Rev Laurence Roberts
11 years ago

Without love we are lost – that’s for sure. And where-ever love is, well there is great hope. The professionally ‘Christian’ are always likely to struggle with all this, as forms of words, formulae and ritualistic actions devoid of & love, become an easier substitute for real relating, real loving and real, costly unpredictable gospel ministry and that will sometimes / always? demand our vulnerability.** I’m put in mind of the gorse bush in the novel Mr Golightly’s Holiday (by Salley Vickers). The epiphany, when the voice from that bush says, “tell them, I am love.” And so it is… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
11 years ago

“Will the Global South meeting reject the latest draft of the Anglican Covenant?” – ‘badman’ – Well, Dr. Stephen Noll, ACNA’s man in Uganda, is asked the same question in a very recent interview posted by ‘Anglican TV’ on ‘Twitter'(?) during his current visit to the USA. In between audible gulps from him and heavy breathing from his interviewer, I heard him postulate 3 different possibilities – one of which was that The Global South will NOT subscribe to the Covenant, unless it is altered to conform with the homophobic agenda of the Global South. This does not sound too… Read more »

Tim Chesterton
11 years ago

‘The Episcopal Church in America and The Anglican Church of Canada are beacons of hope for the disenfranchised and marginalized people on this good Earth’ (Chris Smith).

I doubt it. Personally, I doubt if many of the disenfranchised and marginalised people on this good Earth have ever heard of us.

Leonardo Ricardo
11 years ago

It ended at Dromantine.¨ Göran Koch-Swahne

No doubt about it, that is the conference that revealed actions of sneaks, gossips, manipulators and theives and not Primates nurturing and loving oneanother as religious men who desperately to listen and share their actual experience, truth and good-will in a atmosphere of TRUST and honorable fellowship…many of these men were contaminated with POWERDRIVEN pride, self-righteousness and sub-plots of delusions of grandeur that encouraged drunkenlike greed.

Jerry Hannon
Jerry Hannon
11 years ago

Fr. Mark wrote back to Roland Smith: “I’m not sure that shrinking has anything to do with it. The C of E is shrinking fast, and yet has not adopted liberal policies on women bishops and gay people; the RC Church in Europe is shrinking fastest of all, and is the most illiberal. I don’t think there’s much connection between being liberal/conservative and short-term numbers change, though I do think that in the long-term, credibility is lastingly damaged by, for example, Cardinal Bertone’s attempt to blame child abuse on homosexuality, or Michael Scott-Joynt’s opposition to equal rights legislation.” Mr. Smith… Read more »

Bill Dilworth
Bill Dilworth
11 years ago

I bet these are just the first two in a slew of primatial letters to the ABC tut-tutting about ECUSA, a way to stir up interest in their upcoming sleepover in Singapore.

MarkBrunson
11 years ago

As usual, the proponents on this list represent the so-called best of Christian charity and grace for opinions other than their own. I’m not sure on which side of the debate the hubris is greater! Specifics? Why is it that “charity” for a conservative means “I’ll allow you to continue to exist while I browbeat and revile you over your beliefs, and you *mustmustmust* fully accept, espouse and operate on my beliefs if you are to be charitable to me, which you have to, though it’s optional for me?” This is what you are doing. Why do you think we… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
Pat O'Neill
11 years ago

“My critique is the high minded manner in which TEC and ACC have dismissed the concerns of the rest of the Anglican Communion. Both these churches only appeal to Episcopal order and polity when it serves its interests. Otherwise, they will do what they want and no one is going to tell them differently. Good luck with that.” Yes, we have been high minded…in the sense that we use our minds to understand the scriptures and what the Spirit leads us to today. And, in the Anglican view, episcopal order and polity ends at the borders of each province. We… Read more »

Adam Armstrong
Adam Armstrong
11 years ago

As a Canadian, it’s interesting that we are seen as equally rejectable and revileable, despite not having done the things that they hate about the Episcopal Church. Our General Synod has not accepted (at this point) the blessings of same sex couples (although some Dioceses have in principle or in fact)and we have not elected any gay persons to the Episcopate. Yet, from the Primate down, we are receiving the same attacks. This is because they need to set up a pretext to attract our people and, most importantly, to take our property. Real estate is the US and Canada… Read more »

Tim Chesterton
11 years ago

‘Our General Synod has not accepted (at this point) the blessings of same sex couples (although some Dioceses have in principle or in fact)’ (Adam Armstrong)

Sure it has – by continuing to delay its canonical responsibility to make a decision on this issue of doctrine, it has left a vacuum into which dioceses have moved by default.

Anthony
Anthony
11 years ago

Time to move on, but keep the door unlocked, and open. Groups which splinter, set themselves up to splinter more and more. Eventually, with the help of the Holy Spirit, eyes will open, ears will hear, and hardened hearts will grow soft.

Jeremy
Jeremy
11 years ago

Time for TEC to leave the Anglican Communion. We’ve been paying to much attention to foreign bishops for the past few decades anyway.

EmilyH
EmilyH
11 years ago

There is simply nothing new here. What the GS wants was spelled out in the CAPA document, co-written by Stephen Noll years ago. cf: http://www.globalsouthanglican.org/index.php/comments/the_road_to_lambeth_presented_at_capate TEC’s apology was for offending was not for what the GS found offensive, the doctrinal error of consecrating Gene Robinson, but for the “how” it did it.– an offense of procedure. I suspected Noll as being the author of the Orombi statement by simply comparing the documents. From the GS’s perspective, there is no need that the communion be led out of Canterbury. In the primates meeting, they have the best chance of control. The… Read more »

Counterlight
Counterlight
11 years ago

I’m not sure there’s much of a Communion left anymore for TEC to leave. However, rather than stopping payment on all our checks and quitting, I’d rather have our adversaries take the trouble to throw us out. I don’t think that will happen, but if it does, we won’t be alone. While we remain, we can continue to be a strong advocate for people (such as gay Christians in central Africa) who are not at liberty to speak up in their own churches; our donations can continue to aid legions of people around the world who have nothing to do… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
11 years ago

“It is setting up a new Communion, not centred on Canterbury, not amenable to the Instruments of Unity – in short, not the Anglican Communion at all.” – badman on Wednesday, 14 April – This, indeed, will be the real testing point of the Re-Asserters at Gafcon/Foca Singapore meeting: Will they, or will they not, form a brand new and faux ‘Anglican Communion’ of their own making, based in one of the troubled African Provinces? Any further attempts to arrogate to themselves the exclusive title of ‘Anglican’ will only sully the historic basis of Scripture, Tradition and Reason upon which… Read more »

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