Thinking Anglicans

opinion for St James the apostle

Tomorrow (Sunday) is the festival of James the apostle.
Sophia Deboick writes a Face to faith column in The Guardian about The enigma of Saint James. The identity of Saint James has been reinvented many times over two millennia, from Moor-slayer to Spaniard-killer to pilgrim.

The archbishop of Canterbury preached, in both Welsh and English, at an ecumenical service, held at Westminster Cathedral, to mark the 400th anniversary of the martyrdom of St John Roberts. What’s the martyr’s message to our society?

Jonathan Derbyshire profiles the archbishop in the New Statesman The NS Profile: Rowan Williams.

Theo Hobson explains in The Guardian Why I won’t pay for St Paul’s. It isn’t just meanness that makes me resent having to pay an entrance fee to visit places of worship like St Paul’s Cathedral.

Adrian Pabst writes in The Guardian that The ‘big society’ needs religion. The ‘big society’ will not work unless it is informed by religious ideas of free and reciprocal giving.
Giles Fraser also writes about the big society in his Church Times column: Why the Big Society is a good thing.
And the Church Times has this leader: Big question mark.

Writing in his blog, Nick Baines has Big questions about the ‘Big Society’.

Colin Slee writes in The Guardian about Desmond Tutu, prayerful priest.

Daniel Schultz at Religion Dispatches asks Will Gender and Sexuality Rend The Anglican Communion?

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Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

Thank you for The article by Sophia Deboick and the Sermon by Rowan Williams( I had to read the English translation, of course). They are both helpful pieces to have before us as we celebrate the Feast of St. James tomorrow (July 25th). I was interested in the common ground between Deboick’s article on St. James and Williams’ sermon for St. John Roberts.There is a sense in which martyr’s may die a second death depending on what we do with their memory and to their legacy. I think it is important to try and connect the life and death of… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

Just curious: has an British RC archbishop/bishop ever preached upon the feast-day of Cranmer, Ridley, Latimer (i.e., preached about their martyrdoms by RCs), in an Anglican cathedral? (I’d love to hear about it, if so!)

[@Theo Hobson: Agreed. And to paraphrase the U.S. saying re the Barbary pirates (in the 19th c.), “Multiple pounds in donations, not one red pence for a entrance fee!”]

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

All I can say, is that St John Roberts laid down his life to witness against all that Anglicanism stands for.

Having Doctor Rowan Williams ” preach” is totally inappropriate and shows the poor pastoral leadership of the Catholic hierarchy….no wonder they have few vocations. It was the same
Westminster Cathedral which allowed the anti-Catholic film Elizabeth to be filmed there.

The message of the martyr was for the truth, the Catholic Church and the authentic Gospel. I just can’t believe that Heaven has a place for both him and Rowan Williams (as he stands now).

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Just in case anyone is hurt by what I wrote, let them consider how you would feel if the Pope ( still opposed to women’s ordination) was asked to preach in Westminster Abbey to commemorate the first woman priest in the Anglican Communion. We can be friends without pretending we believe the same thing. How can Rowan talk of truth and a person who died for truth when he believes in gay liberation, but acts otherwise. Surely that is a valid point…taking aside the Catholic -protestant divide. It was hard writing what I did, but I must stand by what… Read more »

Spirit of Vatican II
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Spirit of Vatican II

Very good question, JCF. Rowan Williams is an ecumenist of the extra mile, outshining dismal sectarians.

chenier1
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chenier1

Well, he’s certainly ecumenical; should anyone find a sermon Rowan Williams has willingly given on the Marian martyrs I should be most grateful if they would direct me to it. I have yet to find one. When the plaque commemorating St John Fisher was installed in the Tower of London the Times reported: ‘Today’s celebration led Bishop Chartres to reflect on Fisher’s holiness, but also to reminisce about his own predecessor, Bishop Nicholas Ridley, burnt at the stake for heresy along with Hugh Latimer and later Thomas Cranmer during the subsequent reign of Queen Mary, who accepted the supremacy of… Read more »

Pantycelyn
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Pantycelyn

Btw ‘speaking truth to power’ is an old Quaker expression, for an old Quaker practice.

JCF
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JCF

SpVat2, I think that chenier1 has represented my doubts well: is it that Rowan Cantuar is really “an ecumenist of the extra mile”, or does he (whether he knows it or not) already have one foot out the Canterbury door, and into St Peter’s? O_o To really be “an ecumenist of the extra mile” (I like that phrase BTW!), one must have one’s feet *firmly planted* in one’s OWN tradition, even as one reaches out to others. I see little evidence that the ABC fits this bill. [@RIW: “I just can’t believe that Heaven has a place for both him… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

No the fact is the Catholic Church acknowledges no Protestant martyrs of the Reformation period, and unlike the Church of England we do not appropriate other peoples saints..we leave Cranmer and their ilk, and their culpability to the judgement of a Holy and Merciful God.

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Well our Lord said it would be narrow. Catholicity is not comprehension.

St Edmund Campion sasked at his trial, could Heaven hold the ancient saints and Luther?

Prior Aelred
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“all that Anglicanism stands for”?
Really?
Surely the Trinitarian and Incarnational things that Anglicanism stands for would have been accepted by St. John Roberts (BTW, I tend to be on the side of all the monastic martyrs rather than Cranmer, Latimer, Ridley, Hooper & Ferrar – but that’s just me …)

Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

Ian R. Williams, your postings range form a limited understanding to a serious misunderstanding of the roman Catholic tradition. In fact, you may be committing, from a Roman Catholic point of view, a “grave error” with your comments on Christ and resurrection. You have simply changed the tune from “Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so” to “Jesus loves me this I know for the pontiff tells me so.”

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Surely the Catholic elements within Anglicanism are Catholic anyway. However error mixed with truth, is the very definition of heresy. As for the resurrection. Before I converted to Catholicism, I asked myself could Christianity be a heresy of Judaism. Could the Jews be right in rejecting Christ. one of the arguments thay made was why did he not manifest himself after his resurrection to the whole nation. I thought this was a valid point,as our lord only appeared to a select number. However when I discoverd the Petrine texts, and how they have wonderfully unfolded and held together for 2,000… Read more »

Warren Woodfin
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Warren Woodfin

It was a beautiful and moving sermon, as was the Archbishop’s previous sermon on the Carthusian martyrs. The comments here make me wonder if everyone skipped over this bit: “It is a serious and destructive mistake to think of the martyr as some sort of proof of how right we are, some sort of ‘point’ in an argument. The martyr’s business is celebration, celebration of the cross and resurrection, of the new creation.” And furthermore, that the point of Anglican commemoration of the Recusant martyrs is not crypto-Romanism, but of looking with penitence on those whom we have pierced.

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Rod..another point , I forgot to mention is that Catholics do not believe that the Bible is the sole proof of the ministry of our lord. Was it not St Augustine of Hippo who so beautifully put it, ” I would not believe the Gospels if it were not for the Catholic church”

Catholics believe in the Scriptures, the unwritten sacred tradition and the living magisterium.

JCF
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JCF

“the point of Anglican commemoration of the Recusant martyrs is not crypto-Romanism, but of looking with penitence on those whom we have pierced.” Well-said, Warren. I don’t expect the RCC to endorse Cranmer’s liturgics (although, via the Ordinariate, aren’t they doing just that? O_o) But y’know, a little “we’re here to remember/repent of *burning to death* this faithful Christian we happened to disagree with” would be nice. [@RIW: very interesting confession. “when I discoverd the Petrine texts, and how they have wonderfully unfolded and held together for 2,000 years, I realised that this was of Divine origin. No human conspiracy… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

The Catholic Church does not endorse Cranmer’s liturgics and the Anglican use liturgy has been carefully revised to eliminate his Protestantism.

I meant disparaging not dispairing! My typing again.

There is nothing subjective about the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, as you see its wonderful unfolding of the deposit of faith throughout the centuries.

Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

With apologies to Mr. Colbert I’d like to offer a “tip of the hat” to one poster and a “wag of the finger” to another. “A tip of the hat” to Pantycelyn for pointing out the Quaker origin of the phrase “speak truth to power”. I did not know that, but it makes perfect sense, and adds additional weight to the phrase. Thanks! “A wag of the finger” to R.I. Williams for muddling up orthodox Roman Catholic teaching. Ian you can expect to spend a very long time in purgatory. I wonder how many potential converts to Rome you have… Read more »

Malcolm+
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Rod, that’s quite the penance to assign. Not only will RIW be edified by reading Karl Rahner, the act will be profoundly penitential since Rahner is so deucedly hard to read.

His brother Hugo (also a Jesuit) is said to have observed, “What is needed is not a good translation of my brother Karl from German into English. What is needed is a good translation of my brother Karl from German into German.”

Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

Thanks for the post on Rahner Malcolm, you have caught the gist of the penance I have assigned our rookie RC friend quite nicely. If you want to get someone who is rushing to a conclusion to get the “wash on, wash off” thing, in this case who better than Rahner. I had thought of sticking Bernard Lonergan’s name in there, but a penance should not be impossible for performance. Besides, Rahner is actually a lot like purgatory, suffering yes, but a joyful suffering with salvation at the end. Ah sometimes, I long for the days of my youth at… Read more »