Thinking Anglicans

Primates Meeting: Thursday morning roundup

ACNS has the official report of yesterday: Primates’ Meeting – Briefing #1.

Changing Attitude Ireland has issued a call for the primates to consider the issue of Christian-backed persecution of gay persons. See Call to confront Homophobia at Anglican Primates’ Meeting. (See also this BBC news article.)

The Institute for Religion and Democracy has issued its opinion: Global Conservative Anglican Leaders Duck Worldwide Meeting

“This strife within the third largest family of Christian churches worldwide will not conclude in decisive schism. Instead, liberal and conservative Anglicans will continue to realize a de-facto separation over time. The Dublin primate’s [sic] meeting exemplifies this evolving separation.”

As Episcopal Café points out, this amounts to a change of position: IRD revises forecast for the Communion.

If you came late to this party, you can read about what IRD did to bankroll the Anglican schism in Following the Money. Or you can read This Schism Is Brought to You by the IRD and Power, Money, Control . . . It’s the Church!

The Revd Jonathan Clark, Rector of St Mary’s, Stoke Newington and Chair of Affirming Catholicism has responded to what Andrew Goddard wrote, see Actions and Consequences.

Tobias Haller has responded to what Mouneer Anis said, see Mouneer Gets It Wrong.

The ACI has written The Dublin ‘Meeting’ and Mark Harris has responded with The ACI Numbers Game.

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David ShepherdSpirit of Vatican IIdrdanfeekaren macqueen+peterpi - Peter Gross Recent comment authors
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anon
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anon

Canon Kearon responded to the Changing Attitude request saying it was not for the primates to respond to that, the church of Ireland should respond.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xp0qb

At 6:19-7 mins.

Counterlight
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Counterlight

In the wake of David Kato’s murder yesterday, I don’t give a flying fig what any church primate has to say about anything.

Ellen Clark-King
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Ellen Clark-King

The passage attributed to me is actually by the Revd Jonathan Clark, Rector of St Mary’s, Stoke Newington and Chair of Affirming Catholicism.

Blog article corrected.

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

Don’t hold your breath for any comment on this murder. I have given up waiting for a response to two e-mails to George Carey asking for a comment on the murder of the gay man in Trafalgar Square whose murderers were finally sentenced yesterday.It is still true that silence=death. These ‘Christians’ have blood on their hands.

Jeremy Fagan
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Jeremy Fagan

What I don’t understand is that numbers matter when they’re on our side – we have 60, 70, 80% of the Anglican Communion, so clearly we must be right – but they don’t matter when they’re not – just because you have 60, 70, 80% of your province in agreement, you’re still wrong.

Just like culture – you’ve given into the whims of your culture, our culture would never allow us to do that…

John (not McCain)
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John (not McCain)

“In the wake of David Kato’s murder yesterday”

Another great day for the “orthodox”! They must be so proud!

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

Tobias offers an elegant and irenic rebuttal of the Egyptian Primate’s speech, what is sad is the ignorance that welcomes such vagueness amd error with applause ……..

Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts
JCF
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JCF

@ Jeremy F: ???? Sides, percentages, “whims of culture”: What? Who? Huh?

peterpi - Peter Gross
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peterpi - Peter Gross

Jeremy Fagan, the concept that “a doctrine holds — except when it doesn’t” has wide application in both religion and politics. In relation to GLBT people and some Christians, this often boils down to: “Homosexuality is against nature, the natural order of things.” When it’s pointed out that dozens, hundreds, of animal species have been documented as having some homosexual behavior, then the response is “Humans are better than animals!” Another is the complaint that gay people are immoral because they engage in promiscuous, legally/morally invalid relationships. When GLBT people respond by wanting to have same-sex marriage, and thus form… Read more »

karen macqueen+
Guest

Regarding Changing Attitude Ireland’s, “Call to Confront Homophobia at Anglican Primates’ Meeting”, how tragically timely is their call. We received word today that David Kato, a leader of Sexual Minorities Uganda and an internationally recognized human rights leader was bludgeoned to death with a hammer by an unknown assailant. The local police are saying it must have been a robbery and are rushing to arrest and get a confession from some hapless person. David’s photo had been displayed in the Ugandan tabloid which “outed” LGBT persons in Uganda with the accompanying tag, “Hang Them!” One can only imagine the fear… Read more »

drdanfee
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drdanfee

I,too, join everyone in deep lament and grief for the newest murder of Ugandan gay man and community human rights leader, David Kato. Indeed, silence=death …flat earthism=flat earthism when it comes to intentionally misconstruing queer folks and human nature … and that is the core point in nearly all the substantial negative preachments, Anis and others included. Alas. Lord have mercy.

Spirit of Vatican II
Guest

The editor of Rolling Stone, Uganda:

“We want the government to hang people who promote homosexuality, not for the public to attack them.”

Spoken like a Bishop!

David Shepherd
Guest
David Shepherd

As a black man, I am weighed down by a sense of collective shame over his death, knowing that our race needs to find new moral answers to the fear of social contamination, hardship and deprivation beyond the unmitigated self-justifying tribalist violence towards State scapegoats. Proof that his murder was not motivated by homophobia doesn’t make crushing of another man’s skull apart any less evil. ‘The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.’ (Gen. 4:10) God is not all mercy and no justice. No, not by capricious fits of temper,… Read more »