Thinking Anglicans

David Kato and the Anglican Primates

There have been a number of articles commenting on the murder of David Kato, and what the primates said about it.

ENS has published Albert Ogle David Kato’s Anglican funeral: A tale of two churches

Chicago Consultation Chicago Consultation Thanks Primates for Decrying Anti-Gay Violence

Changing Attitude England Primates’ statement on David Kato’s murder brings them closer to the moment of truth

Walking with Integrity Mixed Messages from ABofC Dangerous for LGBT in Uganda

Benny’s Blog Today I am ashamed to be an Anglican.

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MarkBrunsonCynthia GilliattBill DilworthGerry LynchKurt Recent comment authors
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Gerry Lynch
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Anglican Martyr, David Kato, was murdered on 26 January 2011, for his outspoken gay activism and refusal to live his vocation as a liberator in secret. Let us honour his memory and give thanks for his life by keeping his death as his a saints day in the Calendars of Saints of the Anglican Churches. Let us remember David Kato on his feast day in our churches and in our homes. Let us seek no official sanction for this decision – if one comes, well and good, and if it does not at first, it will come, in God’s good… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

The Rev. Canon Albert Ogle: “Which church are we going to support in this struggle for truth and reconciliation? Take the microphone if you have to, stand up on the platform and proclaim your truth!”

Amen, amen and AMEN!

David Shepherd
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David Shepherd

I have elsewhere deplored the murder of David Kato: http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/004837.html#comments @Gerry, Is it naive to wait until after a full investigation before assuming that David Kato’s murder was an assassination, and thereby martyrdom? Is this not still a suspicion, rather than fact? Our Christian faith declares that the truth will out: ‘Some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.’ (1 Tim. 5:24) Yes, the original meaning of martyr is ‘witness’ and this awful event may advance the LGBT cause, in the short term. In the longer term, I believe that verifiable evidence… Read more »

Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts

Thanks for the thought and the Collect Gerry.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

During this year the Anti-Homosexuality Bill has been considered by a Committee of Ugandan M.P’s. The news of David Kato’s funeral was indeed shocking. Yesterday a timely article appeared in the ‘Daily Monitor’, which is a Kenyan publication . It was actually carrying something the Church of Uganda issued a year ago.This statement, in its own way, is very shocking; & David Kato’s murder. “From ‘Daily Monitor’ 30.1.2011 Church of Uganda’s position on Homosexuality Bill By Henry Luke Orombi Posted Friday, February 12 2010. In Summary: Ensure that homosexual practice or the promotion of homosexual relations is not adopted as… Read more »

Sara MacVane
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Sara MacVane

I agree with Louise Brooks that the ABC’s message is mixed. It is easy to say ‘not the individual’s orientation but his behaviour’ (whether or not we know anything about ‘his’ behaviour or not), but that is an easy way out. I have said before that I think the terrible fate of Jews in the 1940s might well have been very different if the ABC, the Pope, Roosevelt, Churchill, and everyone else of goodwill had put on yellow stars ‘as our Lord has to’. What if the primates (for a small start) had finished their conference wearing pink triangles? Isn’t… Read more »

Davis Mac-Iyalla
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Davis Mac-Iyalla

Dear Anglican Bishops and All Homophobes, it’s one thing to find someone’s living arrangements uncomfortable for you. it’s another to advocate violence.

Gerry Lynch
Guest

David S, you may have a point, but David Kato’s sexuality was absolutely why his funeral was a disgraceful desecration. People were openly calling for his assassination in the press. The church he belonged to was actively colluding in creating a culture of fear which frightens gay Africans to death and murders those refuse to be frightened. So, perhaps you’re right, perhaps he wasn’t actually murdered because of his homosexuality. It’s much more likely that he was, but let’s say for a moment he wasn’t; that would be despite, not because, of the efforts of the church be belonged to.

David Shepherd
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David Shepherd

Agreed, Gerry.

The Anglican Church of Uganda’s connivance could easily chill the soul with fear, but then it makes my blood boil (as I’m sure it does yours).

JCF
Guest
JCF

@Sara: I think the better analogy to the Jews in the Holocaust (nevermind that LGBTs themselves were targets in the Holocaust!), would be if Rowan were to say “It’s no problem to be ethnically Jewish, you’d better not practice the BEHAVIOR of Judaism!”

When it comes to LOVE, there is NO distinction, between gay orientation, and behavior. None at all. If cannot *love* as LGBT, then one cannot *live* as LGBT. Full-stop. Are you listening, Rowan?

peterpi - Peter Gross
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peterpi - Peter Gross

“We, the people of the Church, make our saints.” — Gerry Lynch Bravo, sir, and, Amen! to your intention and collect! Are not the saints simply people held up as exemplars of living the faith? People whose life we should admire and emulate? I’ve seen the word “saint” used in that sense in a responsive reading in a Reform Jewish prayerbook (very similar, IMHO, to a book of common prayer). Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has a formal procedure for declaring someone as an official saint, and I assume the CofE and the Eastern Orthodox churches have similar formalities before… Read more »

JPM
Guest
JPM

Was David Kato’s bludgeoned corpse behaving in some inappropriate way at his funeral?

Did I miss something about that?

Edward Prebble
Guest
Edward Prebble

A very interesting exchange about martyrs, David and Gerry. Actually I disagree: I don’t think we need to “wait until after a full investigation to decide if David Kato’s death was assassination, and threrfore martydom”. For a start, does anyone on this site think that a fair and unimpeachible investigation can be held in such a climate, or bring about a finding in which we can have any confidence? But more importantly, there are some very appropriate precedents here. One of the most important and revered martyrs of the South Pacific, Bisihop John Coleridge Patteson, was not, strictly speaking, killed… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

I don’t know about the CoE, but TEC has no Saints (with a capital S) other than those canonized before the split with Rome. We have many–probably millions of saints (with a small s), defined as those who we recognize as having been good people living Godly lives (whether Christian or not). We also have specific people who are recognized by being placed on the official church calendar for celebration…among them, for example, Martin Luther King.

MarkBrunson
Guest

All this, to me, is proof of what my heart has been telling me:

If we are to remain Christian, if we are to work toward becoming the people God called us to be, we must – absolutely MUST – completely cut ourselves off from these so-called “orthodox.”

Only God can save them – we can do nothing more but bring shipwreck upon our own souls.

Rowan Williams’ sickening defense of Abp. Orombi says that he can no longer be regarded as a reliable shepherd or spokesman.

Bill Dilworth
Guest
Bill Dilworth

“I don’t know about the CoE, but TEC has no Saints…We also have specific people who are recognized by being placed on the official church calendar for celebration. “

This truly is a distinction without a difference.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

Bill:

The difference is that we don’t call them “saints”, we don’t require anything miraculous be done in their name to put them on calendar (no one had to say “I prayed to MLK and I was cured…”), all that is needed is recognition of an exemplary life.

MarkBrunson
Guest

As I said in another post, we must cut ties. The defense of Orombi by Williams is shameful, and indicates that we *cannot* peacefully coexist in the same ecclesial structure. So long as we attempt to do so, the more violent and forceful conservatives will run roughshod over the the weak liberal leadership which makes the mistake of constant appeasement, having never gained the insight that mercy and severity must both be present to form justice. As we cannot change the leadership from this ill-advised path, we must divorce ourselves from the so-called “orthodox” branch. Doing so would take away… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

If you Google “Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music” you can see TEC at work on Holy Men, Holy Women. That is, if I spelled ‘commission’ correctly.

Kurt
Guest
Kurt

“The difference is that we don’t call them “saints”, we don’t require anything miraculous be done in their name to put them on calendar (no one had to say “I prayed to MLK and I was cured…”), all that is needed is recognition of an exemplary life.”

Speak for yourself, Pat. Some of “us” Episcopalians do, indeed, call them “saints” and ask that they pray for us. This, for me, includes MLK.

Kurt Hill
Brooklyn, NY

Gerry Lynch
Guest

Mark,

Jesus carried on his mission while nursing a viper at his bosom. C’est la vie.

Edward,

Thank you for reminding me about Paterson. I knew very little about him, but was quite by chance in Exeter Cathedral a fortnight ago and saw the Martyr’s Pulpit there commissioned in his honour. Paterson was a remarkable man in many ways.

Bill Dilworth
Guest
Bill Dilworth

@Kurt – Thank you.

@Pat – Just to add to what Kurt wrote above, the distinction between calling them “saint” and “blessed” or “holy” is a difference in etymology.

And yes, some people do call them saints:

http://www.stcharlesthemartyr.org/

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

Ooops! Holy Women, Holy Men. That’s the title of what we are doing.

MarkBrunson
Guest

Gerry, We aren’t carrying our cross to Golgotha, but making a noose in the Potter’s Field. As long as we maintain this farce, locked in mutual hate and quarrelling, pretending it’s a “coexistence” or, worse, a “conversation” we abrogate our responsibility. Separation – a clean divorce from the right-wing – is the only way we can actually carry out our mission; of course, perhaps some are simply too frightened of what it will be like without the fight. Perhaps, the fear is that, without being able to define ourselves in opposition to the so-called orthodox, we’ll find there really isn’t… Read more »