Thinking Anglicans

Primates gathering: Friday – more news and comment

Updated several times during the day

Paul Handley Church Times ACNA Primate was given ballot paper to vote on Episcopal Church

Tim Wyatt Church Times Primates issue full communiqué which includes condemnation of homophobia

Presiding Bishop Michael Curry A statement on the Primates Meeting [3 minute video]
[also here with text of the video]

Dean E Wolfe Episcopal News Service Bishop of Kansas responds to primates’ action

Andrew McGowan No, the Episcopal Church has not been suspended from the Anglican Communion

Press Association [in The Guardian] Justin Welby says sorry to LGBTI community for hurt caused by church

Update

BBC News Welby sorry for Anglican ‘hurt’ to LGBT community

Madeleine Davies Church Times Reactions to the Primates: Americans express their sadness, conservatives their doubts
Ugandan Archbishop: why I walked out of the Primates gathering in Canterbury

Ruth Gledhill Christian Today Archbishop of Canterbury apologises for ‘hurt and pain’ caused to gay community

Photographs from this afternoon’s press conference

Madeleine Davies Church Times US Episcopalians facing ‘not a sanction, but a consequence’ says Welby

Bruce Garner (President, Integrity USA) Integrity Response to the 2016 Anglican Primate Meeting

Editorial in The Guardian The Guardian view on the Anglican communion: Archbishop Welby’s holy smoke and mirrors

Giles Fraser The Guardian Anglican leaders further marginalise gay people – and Church of England

Harriet Sherwood The Guardian Justin Welby says sorry to LGBTI community for hurt and pain caused by Anglican church

Patrick Struckwick BuzzFeed News LGBT Christians React With Fury Over The Anglican Communion Suspending Pro-Gay Church

30
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
30 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
18 Comment authors
MarkBrunsonCynthiaGregJames ByronJonathan MacGillivray Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

“Condemnation of homophobia?!” Which *they* are responsible for! Beyond contemptible.

John Swanson
Guest
John Swanson

I don’t suppose you kind folk in America would fancy lending us here in the old country your unspeakably wonderful presiding bishop for a while, would you….

Marshall Scott
Guest

So, credit where due: I appreciate Archbishop Foley having the grace and sense not to vote. I don’t think he should have been there, but he didn’t invite himself, and the fault there lies elsewhere. There is much to be said for McGowan’s observation about the nature, and the (lack, really, of) structures of the Communion. I expect he right: that there will be some action at ACC to ask the Episcopal Church’s representatives not to vote. It won’t take us out of the room, and it won’t take us away from the mic, as it were; and it is… Read more »

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

If you listen to +Michael’s video, be sure to have a box of tissues around.

Sara MacVane
Guest
Sara MacVane

How cant Welby say that his ‘sadness’ when he does what he’s just done and when the C-of-E treats its long and faithful clergy as it has done recently to Jeremy and Jeremy? It sounds to this Yank like hyper-blown hyporcrisy…..

John Wallace
Guest
John Wallace

Most of us will hang in. We can use our positions to influence and pressure. Really sad about the African bishops. Their culture oppresses their theology – aided and abetted by funds from US ultra-conservatives. Why can’t we get that the Gospel transcends sex – which is very much a second, third or fourth issue and really not theologically at all? Just look at the history of ‘holy matrimony’ in England which until quite recently was to do with dynastic relationships and property – very much anti-gospel values. Was there ‘love’ in these arranged church blessed marriages? Lots of evidence… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

The week began with the startling news of the death of cultural music genius David Bowie. It ends with a fade to the cacophony of Anglican Primates.

I find these few lines from a Pink Floyd song speak to me at several levels.

“Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I’d something more to say.

Far away
Across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spell”

(Songwriters: David Gilmour, Nickolas Mason, Roger Waters,Rick Wright)

peterpi - Peter Gross
Guest
peterpi - Peter Gross

Let’s see, use (fear and loathing of) GLBT people as a unifying spirit to hold the Anglican Communion together, tell TEC “we don’t want your vote, but please send money”– and then apologize for homophobia.

Perhaps the ABC needs to learn the theological concept of “chutzpah”.

William
Guest
William

‘So why has it become the touchstone of Orthodoxy?’

Maybe because Jesus has quite a bit to say about marriage in the Gospel.

wyclif
Guest
wyclif

You fellows really need to get on-message about the money, because at this point your collective trumpet is giving off a most uncertain sound. First you complained that the money was coming from TEC and America, and that TEC should withdraw all money from the ACC and ACO. When your bluff was called on that count by the orthodox, you then said that the money was coming from conservatives funding the African Primates. Which is it? You cannot have it both ways. And if you are a TEC loyalist, I would call your bluff. I’m a young American Anglican clergyman,… Read more »

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

“I don’t suppose you kind folk in America would fancy lending us here in the old country your unspeakably wonderful presiding bishop for a while, would you….”

Nope, he’s all ours. But the Jesus Work in the Jesus Movement is for everybody. And we can do some of that together.

+Michael said the Communion is about relationships, and that comes down to us, not the guys in the pointy hats.

Nathaniel Brown
Guest
Nathaniel Brown

One aspect of all this that has received little attention is the effect of this decision on the many people who now find one more reason to shun religion in general and Christianity in particular – the very people, often enough, who need most what the church can – sometimes – offer. The sheer level of repugnance in the LGBT press is at a new level of rejection. In short, this decision, while it may have warmed the hearts of GAFCON and certain southern bishops, is very powerful anti-evangelism.

keithmcianwil
Guest
keithmcianwil

This Instrument of Unity has become a model Sanhedrin taking its cue as per John 11:49-50. As with the previous two predecessor ABCs, the C in ABC discloses “our name is Caiaphas”. But thanks and praise be for the gracious PB Michael and for The Episcopal Church and its calling. Brother Michael truly assures us we are part of the Jesus Movement which cannot be stopped and we keep the Lord’s discipline. So we follow the One who taught that the Law/Sabbath was created for us and not us for the Law/Sabbath. Remain Anglican where still we can and should,… Read more »

Anthony Archer
Guest
Anthony Archer

On a somewhat technical though tangential point, the General Synod is likely to want to scrutinise the CofE’s funding of the ACC when it meets in July. Members might want to know whether it gets value for money, especially if the import of the 2016 Primates Communique is to constrain what the Church of England can or cannot do.

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Dozens of gay rights activists, many of them refugees from African countries, descended on Canterbury Cathedral to chant “Shame on you” in the precincts where the 38 primates of the Anglican communion had been meeting to resolve deep divisions over gay rights.”

With all due respect to our wonderful PB Michael, THIS is the best news I’ve heard out of this execrable meeting. The stones themselves cry out!

Nicholas Henderson
Guest
Nicholas Henderson

If Foley Beach was given a ballot paper, regardless of what he may or may not have done with it, it is a scandal.

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Well, if it’s God’s will we suffer because of these people, God’s Will be done. So Ahab and Jezebel did to Elijah! But, as Elijah went to the wilderness to protect his holy charge ’til God set things right, so may TEC have to do.

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Look at wycliff’s response: “Get gone and take your demonic gays with you, old whites devils!” That’s what they are, now, the ecclesial Trump campaign. There’s your love, tolerance, and brotherhood! That’s the Anglican Communion. We have God’s work to do and they will fight it to a standstill. It’s the first true statement to come from their hearts.

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

My personal place in this: ever since ’98, every Primate’s meeting, every statement of cantuar, ACNA, GAFCON leaves me in such a state of despair, feeling so stripped of my humanity that I consider suicide-no different this time. Worse. I truly believe they will rejoice to hear that. I’m sure I’m not the only one. There is no God in a structure or process that does that, is there?

Jonathan MacGillivray
Guest
Jonathan MacGillivray

William said: “‘So why has it become the touchstone of Orthodoxy?’ Maybe because Jesus has quite a bit to say about marriage in the Gospel.” I’m struggling – as I have done for 35 years of ordained ministry – to find all those things that Jesus is specifically alleged to have said about marriage. Even the marriage service itself can only quote tomorrow’s Gospel (the wedding at Cana) as his personal affirmation of marriage – an occasion liturgically linked more with disclosure of the nature of Jesus than with any statement about the nature of marriage. Suggested scripture readings for… Read more »

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

Mark Brunson, hang in there. The meeting was dreadful, as they all are. But all will be well in all manner of things. After all, we have +Michael to remind us that “all are welcome in the house of God.”

Go to your terrific parish, sing hymns, receive the Eucharist, and hang with your peeps. All will be well.

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Yes, Cynthia, but not in the AC. We need to stay home and tend our own culture. We can do nothing abroad, everything at home. Tend our woefully-neglected home and work to enhance our political influence in the US.

James Byron
Guest
James Byron

Cynthia, absolutely. Mark, we are all valued. The primates don’t get to decide that.

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

Mark, it is possible to engage abroad. Our parish has relationships in Haiti, Guatemala, South Sudan, and Malawi. This has come about via parishioners who are active in those places. But it’s quite possible to engage in meaningful relationship and missional work (not toxic charity). This is the real work, the Jesus Work that +Michael talks about. Several of these relationships happen in full knowledge that the supporting parishes are gay friendly. Of course, there’s no shame in engaging locally with the problems we have. But there’s plenty of engagement that can happen from the individual level to the national… Read more »

Greg
Guest
Greg

The assertion by ABC and the primates that TEC. Must face”concequences” is nothing more than a power seeking attempt to impose a covenant on churches that have clearly rejected the propsed anglican covenant. Including of course his own church. Such a naked assertion that the primates can ignore the rejection of a covenant is the height of arrogance. I applaud all who refuse to abide by this. Gay Jennings is right to say she will continue to serve in her coomunion position

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

By all means make friends outside the US! I’m not saying write off humanity, but we really can do it ourselves. It isn’t a party where we have to wait for an introduction! We can engage while realizing we don’t own the problem and can’t. I mean this gently to a gentle soul; your comment on home outreach underscores a potentially deadly problem-we tend to love the suffering far away and get embarrassed by those in our midst, perhaps because it’s a reminder that we fail to really fix the problems. We don’t get reports of a family fed, we… Read more »

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

Mark, I think our work is both/and, not either/or. On this blog I am always keenly aware that the social safety net in the UK is much better than ours. So it’s worth underscoring that when our LGBTQ people suffer workplace discrimination, they can lose their health insurance, with devastating consequences. Having the church support us is significant to our well being in every way. In the US, mainline Protestant Church approval of equal marriage ranges from 65 to 90 percent approval. Quakers, Buddhists, and Jews are in the 90 percent range. This really helped bring about equal marriage and… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Cynthia, We need to do both/and, which I had tried to convey, but the both/and needs to be re-balanced; more here, less there. That doesn’t necessarily mean money, but work as well. People need houses, Cynthia. People need food. I’ve been shaped in this by the same parish I told you about – we’ve grown because we are a seen presence here. We’ve done work in Belize, but the more lasting work has been here, in West Virginia, building houses – not churches, but houses. We have a garden that has grown to a small farm which is used entirely… Read more »

Cynthia
Guest
Cynthia

I hear you Mark. I do volunteer work too. The domestic situation of great inequality is leaving a lot of people in dire straights. There’s charity work to be done, there’s also an incredible need to talk about the causes and solutions – that’s the work that really needs to happen and it’s harder in our polarized environment. Our liberal parish strongly supports the local food bank. But the minute you ask why people are hungry, the tension goes way up. About work abroad, I would say that the US and much of the developed world are complicit in some… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

We can have relationships, though, without those relationships being *through* the ACC. There seems to be a sort of a weird vision problem in which we can *only* see ourselves relating to others through the Anglican Communion, as if, somehow, we didn’t exist or had voices independently. Again, we can engage outside, but we need to focus here, and talking when we’re afraid to talk, won’t work. TEC talks way too much. We need to do. Don’t worry about *why* people are in dire straits, for the moment, just do. We need TEC to focus on this at a national… Read more »