Thinking Anglicans

Primates gathering: Monday news and comment

Archbishop Philip Richardson ‘Walk or stay? We chose to stay’

BBC News Dr Richard Clarke: Church of Ireland primate defends decision on US Episcopal Church

Scottish Episcopal Church Primates Meeting 2016 – radio interviews with Primus

Hudson Kuteesa AllAfrica Rwanda: Canterbury Has Taken Best Decision On Gay – Bishop Rucyahana

Some blog posts from a range of perspectives

Andrew Lightbown A tale of two Primates

Richard Haggis Winsome, Lose some

Giles Goddard The Primates’ Meeting – good or bad?

Bosco Peters Primates Do Not Suspend TEC

Ephraim Radner First Things Reaffirming Communion: an Act of Hope

20
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
20 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
14 Comment authors
James ByronEric MacDonaldNathaniel BrownRod GillisInterested Observer Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
A Cooper
Guest
A Cooper

How many more years – time for TEC and liberal provinces to be clear that they will not be forced to go back on the reforms they’ve made and exclusion is a price worth paying for integrity; time for TEC (UK) to start and TEC to be in other regions. If current English liberal clergy won’t let go of their nice robes and pensions, then a new generation should lead new TEC churches where all are genuinely accepted regardless of doctrinal or moral ‘purity’ . More years of compromising principles for institutional unity that does not exist will be horrible… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Giles Goddard is naive. There were no gains for the liberal “team” just the same empty words (not even promises) that we’ve heard so often. I guess I should credit him for his unwavering loyalty to Cantuar. Of course they won’t be accountable or quit abetting violence against gays. I’m surprised they kept from laughing.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

A Cooper, I agree that the Archbishop of Canterbury is sacrificing the English baptized on the altar of unity with bigoted provinces.

Why this is pleasing to the Lord is something that I will never fathom.

Disgraced
Guest
Disgraced

The piece by Philip Richardson is quite disingenuous. “Walk or stay? We chose to stay” as if this was the first item on the agenda for everyone to deal with. When was walking or staying ever an issue for the primates of Aotearoa New Zealand and on what grounds would they have walked when they knew who else would be there, what was on the agenda and had travelled half way around the world to be there? I don’t doubt that some interesting and important matters that were discussed failed to hit the global headlines; but to ignore what happened… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

Here is a very good article on selective Anglican outrage toward TEC from The Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/the-selective-outrage-of-the-anglican-church/424569/

Father Ron Smith
Guest

My question out of all this, still is:

Are the Conservative Primates ready to ‘Break Bread’ (join in the Eucharistic Celebration) with Liberal Primates. This is the real test of their willingness to ‘abide in The Vine’ with fellow Anglicans. Until anmd unless this happens, it will be difficult for the rest of us in the Communion to take their latest pow-wow seriously.

In other words, I am very suspicious of attempts to side-line TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada in ways that imply their lesser value as members of the Anglican Communion.

Father Ron Smith
Guest

‘A statement from the primates at the meeting says that the church (TEC) should “no longer represent us on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, should not be appointed or elected to an internal standing committee and that while participating in the internal bodies of the Anglican Communion, they will not take part in decision making on any issues pertaining to doctrine or polity”.’ It is not quite clear who the ‘us’ mentioned in the above comment actually represents – certainly not me, as an Anglican in ACANZP! Furthermore,do the originators of this statement realise the extent of this actual financial support… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

My vote (if it were a possibility) for the next appointment to the Archbishopric of Canterbury would be the Rt. Reverend Michael Curry, Primus of TEC. His gracious comments on the outcome of the recent Primates’ Meeting – which has virtually side-lined TEC from the executive functions of the Anglican Communion for a period of 3 years – clearly state TEC’s discernment of the need to continue to focus on the inclusion of LGBTI people in the life and ministry of the Episcopal Church of America. This has incorporated TEC’s refusal to back-track on its commitment to open up its… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

Richard Haggis – thank you. That’s it. And, sadly, being gentle, good, decent people, the TEC hierarchy does not get deceit and manipulation, so they don’t quite get what AC is doing.

Mark Brunson
Guest
Mark Brunson

I would like to express my gratitude for Bp. Benhase, my bishop. He isn’t perfect, but we are truly blessed in comparison with what we might have gotten, as the last few decades have shown. “A Statement on Actions of the Primate’s Meeting The leaders of the churches which are part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, referred to as Primates, met January 11-15 in Canterbury, England. The group asked that the Episcopal Church, for a period of three years, “no longer represent us on ecumenical and interfaith bodies, should not be appointed or elected to an internal standing committee and… Read more »

Perry Butler
Guest
Perry Butler

Andrew Lightbown makes an important point. It will require African Primates to stand against the leaders of many Pentecostal and African Independent Church leaders as well as populist Politicians who ride on the issue of criminalising homosexuality.Will this happen? not least as African Anglicans fear losses to Pentecostal Churches. But if their rhetoric and support for criminalisation continues what will happen in three years time? Will they face sanctions?The Primate of Uganda may well say he isn’t bound by this in any case.

Leon Clarke
Guest
Leon Clarke

Does anyone have links to the comments by ‘some conservative primates’ alluded to by Andrew Lightbown?

MarkBrunson
Guest
MarkBrunson

You know, recently some unpleasant sorts who broke into a federal facility – don’t panic! It wasn’t guarded, because that might be hard – they then went online begging for money and snacks, because, you know, Jesusamericajesus.

So people sent supplies.

Perhaps, as the primates seem so desperate to see signs of approval for this measure, similar gifts as signs of support might be thoroughly appropriate, along with a note thanking them for their incredibly sincere commitment to ending homophobia and making peace in our time. Don’t forget Foley Beach! He’ll be on the AC soon enough!

Andrew Godsall
Guest
Andrew Godsall

I think the best analysis I have read so far of what the Primates’ statement means is in Bosco Peters’ piece. Thank you for the link. Surely the Primates themselves can’t actually make any suspension of TEC. The spin about ‘consequences’ is difficult because it sounds like implementation of the Anglican Communion Covenant, which our Dioceses in the C of E rejected pretty clearly. I hope there will be a question about this at General Synod next month. One question I can’t find an answer to, and would be grateful for is this: who leaked the decision from the Primates… Read more »

F. D. Blanchard
Guest
F. D. Blanchard

This very angry article in The Atlantic by Jonathan Merritt calls out the hypocrisy of Anglican hierarchs for sanctioning the Episcopal Church for marrying gays while deliberately overlooking African churches complicit in murdering them.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/the-selective-outrage-of-the-anglican-church/424569/

Interested Observer
Guest
Interested Observer

“the hypocrisy of Anglican hierarchs for sanctioning the Episcopal Church for marrying gays while deliberately overlooking African churches complicit in murdering them.” Why is it hypocrisy? The African primates have always been intensely relaxed about the murder of gays, when they weren’t actively cheering it on. They haven’t made any secret of this. You might argue that Justin Welby is being some sort of hypocrite by siding with them, but that would presume that Justin Welby sees the murder of gays, particularly black gays a long way away, as something worth losing sleep over. There’s no sign he sees it… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

This just appeared on the Anglican Journal news site in Canada.

http://www.anglicanjournal.com/articles/-hiltz-addresses-sharp-criticism-over-stance-on-tec

Nathaniel Brown
Guest
Nathaniel Brown

For a thoughtful, informative and comforting statement on the primates’ meeting, see the open letter from the Canadian Primate:

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2016/01/19/canadian-primate-offers-further-reflection-on-the-primates-meeting/

Eric MacDonald
Guest

I’ve been off the air for a few days, some of them ruminating on what the Anglican Communion has done. I argued some time ago that unity in communion might be possible if the Gafcon bishops were to recognise the differences in culture between those in the more liberal north, and those in the more traditional south. But this did not happen. Instead, the Gafcon bishops got all they asked for. TEC was repremanded and marginalised, and they got to go back to play the same tranditionalist game that reflected their own culture, but not those in the north. They… Read more »

James Byron
Guest
James Byron

Interested Observer, hard as it is for me to defend the corporate drone of Anglicanism, I believe Justin Welby’s sincere about repenting of the abuses inflicted on LGBT (and “I,” as he’d have it) people. I don’t for a second believe that he sleeps easy about homophobic murder.

Problem is, he defines homophobia only in those narrow terms. For Welby, homophobia is murder and abuse: but discrimination on biblical grounds, couched in polite language, is just dandy.

Progress of a kind, I suppose.