Thinking Anglicans

Communiqué from Iarccum Summit

ACNS has published New steps on an ancient pilgrimage: Together from Canterbury to Rome

30 September – 7 October 2016

IARCCUM 2016 has been an extraordinary, historic summit, rich in symbolism and significance for the Anglican Communion and Catholic Church.

It brought together 36 bishops from around the world for a week in Canterbury and Rome to celebrate the deepening relationship between the two traditions over the past 50 years – and to find practical ways to work together to demonstrate that unity to the world and address its social and pastoral issues.

The highlight was the mandating of the bishops by Pope Francis and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, at a service they jointly led at the chapel of San Gregorio al Celio. The service also saw the Pope and Archbishop exchange gifts as a sign of friendship – echoing the moment in 1966 when Pope Paul VI presented his papal ring to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Michael Ramsey – a moment that ushered in a new era of dialogue.

The days in Rome also saw the formal presentation of a document detailing 20 years of work on reconciling the two traditions by the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission. And the bishops attended a symposium on current relations between the churches and the possibilities of future co-operation and dialogue.

The time in Canterbury was also rich in symbolism. The Suffragan Bishop in Europe, David Hamid, gave the homily at a Catholic Vigil Mass in the undercroft of the Cathedral. The following day, the Archbishop-elect of Regna, Donald Bolen, preached the sermon at the Sung Eucharist.

Bishop David – who co-chairs IARCCUM with Archbishop Don – said the summit had been an historic time in the history of our official dialogue, and deeply valuable.

“This has been an immensely rich occasion, full of significance for our two traditions. It has been a source of deep joy to all the bishops gathered from all over the world, who have shared their experiences, their challenges and their wisdom. It was a profound time of collegiality and communion, and they are inspired now to go out into the world and work together for unity and common mission.”

Archbishop Don said it had been an incredible time and he was excited about the future.

“The bishops engaged in everything in a way that was beautiful to see. Strong friendships have formed. In our discussions, we did not shy away from the difficulties we sometimes face. But the possibilities for our two traditions working together in a needy world are abundant and promising.”

One of the bishops, Archbishop Paul Nabil El Sayah from Beirut said the summit had been a joyful occasion that would yield practical results.

“The atmosphere has been very positive,” he said. “You can feel there is deep, sincere fellowship and a willingness to bring new things forward. I am completely sold on practical ecumenism. I see lots of potential. This is not about looking inwards but about coming to the outside world together. The more we come together, the more our message has credibility.”

Bishop Alwin Samuel, from Sialkot in Pakistan, has been working alongside Archbishop Sebastian Shaw from Lahore during the summit. Bishop Alwin said he was looking forward to collaborating more with the Catholics at home.

“We have been looking at how we can take concrete steps towards unity. One example is where we have existing projects of our own. We looked at how we could begin to work together on them. For example, in areas such as health, especially women’s health, where one church might provide the resources and the other would deliver them.”

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Sara MacVane
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Sara MacVane

I know both David Hamid and Don Bolen and am also forward enough to consider myself a friend of both, nonetheless, the conversation and twinning of bishops remains “boy-talk”, and so interests me (and maybe others) less and less. Women matter, guys, their ideas, their brains, their faith, their piety, and the eons of control over them by the other half, however sanctimoniously worded.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

“For example, in areas such as health, especially women’s health, where one church might provide the resources and the other would deliver them.”

There is no gall like mind numbing gall!

Clive Sweeting
Guest
Clive Sweeting

A most welcome development.

Michael
Guest
Michael

There is so much negativity and cynicism regularly expressed on Thinking Anglicans. These conversations of the past week should be a cause of rejoicing for us all. Deo Gratias. The Spirit is at work here and not in the barbs of the single issue obsessives and the permanently embittered.I rejoice in my Anglicanism and do not agree on all matters with Rome by any means but I can only see the events of the past week as positive

cseitz
Guest
cseitz

For those of us working in France it is encouraging to see the developments. Centuries old divisions begin to come into perspective when one sees the rich mission field and the possibilities for common work. The effort to find common ground around the Offices may also begin to bear fruit.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Michael, “The Spirit is at work here and not in the barbs of the single issue obsessives and the permanently embittered.” Yours could be interpreted as a rather cynical and negative assessment of those voices that choose not to leave their critical thinking at the church door. Justice is often about a kind of “obsession” for a reversal of roles i.e. hungering, thirsting, for justice for all. If that causes upset as the boys process down the aisle in full medieval overlord regalia, so be it. What is important is a balancing of values. Ecumenism is important. The accomplishments… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

I appreciate, Christopher (cseitz), your welcome to the initiative taken by Rome towards a deeper fellowship with Anglicans. My only regret – expressed by others here and in other places on the internet – is that women seem to have been completely left outside of the equation. Granted that a woman bishop appearing as a fellow bishop in Rome might have seemed a breach of the Vatican protocol – possibly cutting short the current movement towards reconciliation. However, as Rome has still not repealed the edict ‘Apostolicae Curae’ – despite the signs and symbols displayed in Rome recently which suggested… Read more »

David Emmott
Guest
David Emmott

Paradoxical I know, but isn’t the absence of women bishops at least some sort of acknowledgement that our male bishops are treated as more than lay people? If Anglican orders are ‘null and void’, then neither a male nor a female bishop is in holy orders so both should be treated with the same indifference. In practice therefore the Vatican seems to ignore Apostolicae Curae, which is surely a step forward. I know the present teaching on women’s ordination is frustrating and infuriating to Anglican women (ordained or not), but it is equally so to the very many Roman Catholic… Read more »

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

I’d like to refer Michael to the post on the GAFCON meeting and ask who was doing the obsessing on the single issue in the communique? For the C of E bishops attending this was a show of solidarity and expression of opinion for which there is absolutely no personal cost. They can obsess for a day, get on a plane and forget about it until the next official discussion on the, for them, abstract topic ‘sexuality’. Tomorrow, however, is World Mental Health Day, a reminder that for many people, whether in Durham or Dar es Salaam the conflict between… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“Paradoxical I know, but isn’t the absence of women bishops at least some sort of acknowledgement that our male bishops are treated as more than lay people?” I don’t think that is a safe conclusion. I’m pretty certain that the Anglican Communion sent very few female bishops to Iarccum in the first place. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find a delegate list, so I can’t be certain, but I did some digging on Google and think I am right. So I think we should blame the absence of women on the Anglicans and not draw any conclusions about Catholic acceptance.

Pam
Guest
Pam

As welcome as ecumenical unity is, I must say I have to agree with Rod Gillis about the phrase where “women’s health” is mentioned. There’s nothing quite so disempowering as having not much say in how one’s own health is going to be “managed”!

Paul Richardson
Guest
Paul Richardson

I have been looking in vain to find a list of the 19 pairs of bishops. Could anyone out there in Thinking Anglicans land let us know who all of them are please?

Matt
Guest
Matt

Can anybody confirm whether Bishop Hamid’s homily at the RC Vigil Mass was given after the Gospel & before the Creed, or after the distribution of communion?

If the former, that would be unlawful for a lay person…

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@Paul Richardson, the list of paired bishops can be found at the end of the article from Anglican Journal.

http://www.anglicanjournal.com/articles/anglican-and-roman-catholic-bishops-sent-out-for-united-mission

T Pott
Guest
T Pott

@Paul Richardson

The Anglican Communion News Service lists the 19 pairs in this article.

http://www.anglicannews.org/news/2016/10/anglican-and-roman-catholic-bishops-sent-out-for-united-mission.aspx

They are from Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Central Africa, England, France, Ghana and West Africa, Hong Kong and China, India, Ireland, Middle East and Horn of Africa, Melanesia, New Zealand, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, South Africa, Sri Lanka and USA.

This seems to be a worldwide thing, but for people in the UK who recently voted against rule from Brussels, it is ironic if the Archbishop of Canterbury is seeking to entangle us again with Rome.

David Lamming
Guest
David Lamming

Matt’s question and comment (at 10.33 am BST 10 October), if serious, shows how out of touch the Church [CofE and/or RC] can be at times with the real world. It’s reminiscent of the old question about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. One can imagine the dismissive answer Christ would have given to the question had he been asked it by one of the Pharisees.

Daniel Berry, NYC
Guest
Daniel Berry, NYC

Apostolicae Curae keeps getting mentioned, but I have to say that I don’t recall the name of that Encyclical (it is NOT an edict: it’s a letter) being mentioned by anyone from the Vatican itself in many a long year.

Matt
Guest
Matt

@David Lamming. I was being half-serious, and as only half-serious I will take your Pharisaical comment in the friendly spirit in which it was no doubt intended. Both the Church of England and the Latin rite of the Catholic Church have laws about the preaching of sermons/homilies. The Catholic laws are rather more tightly drafted than the CofE ones and restrict a homily (properly so called, in the customary position in the liturgy) to Bishops Priests and Deacons. A friend who examines RC seminarians on Canon Law regularly uses this issue as an easy exam question. As a (fellow) lawyer,… Read more »

Marshall Scott
Guest

@Daniel Berry: I think Matt’s correct of the most recent citation of Apostolicae Curae. More telling, I think, is that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger reaffirmed it in his position as Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1998.

By the way, Apostolicae Curae has it’s own Wikipedia article. Can’t say whether that’s good, bad, or indifferent, but there it is.

Kate
Guest
Kate

Matt, it was performed at a Church of England altar so I would argue that it was, in fact, a Church of England rite even if it mostly followed Catholic tradition in form by special dispensation.

(I don’t know but I suspect that somewhere on the Statute books or in Canon law, there might well still be some legacy prohibition against Catholic rites within Church of England consecrated buildings anyway?)

Daniel Berry, NYC
Guest
Daniel Berry, NYC

@ Marshall Scott: Sorry–I should have known that Ratz would have been unable to resist throwing A.C. out there somewhere in the same spirit in which he issued Dominus Iesus, a throwback to much of the worst of the period stretching from the Counter-Reformation to the eve of Vatican II.

But the caliber of A. C doesn’t begin to match the scholarship of the Answer by the Archbishops, “Saepius Officio.”

cryptogram
Guest
cryptogram

50 years ago Fr John Jay Hughes wrote an account of how AC came to be written, based on original Vatican documents. It demonstrated that the papal commission looking into Anglican orders was manipulated, principally by Cardinal Merry del Val, at the behest of the RC hierarchy in England. It still needs to be read by anyone interested in the issue. As in so many “theological” matters, the final word was had by the ecclesiastical politicians. The wrong one, but the convenient one.

cseitz
Guest
cseitz

As an aside. I recall Francis upon election saying — or it being said of him — that he was opposed to the so called Ordinariate.

This 2-by-2 idea may be a way of his pushing back against that and chiefly that.

As Ray Brown once said to Brevard Childs “Dear Bard: your enemies are not my enemies.”

Father Ron Smith
Guest

Thank you, Daniel (Berry) for the link to the response of the Church of England’s Archbishops Temple & Maclagan – “Saepius Officio” – to the declaration “Apostolicae Curae” issued by Pope Leo XIII, in 1896.

I wonder how many Anglican clergy have read this enlightening and robust response to the Pope’s accusation of the non-validity of Anglican Orders and Eucharistic Ritual? It certainly gives a clear definition of what the Archbishops understood about the Real Presence – of Christ in the Eucharist.

Kate
Guest
Kate

@Father Ron Smith On various threads you have suggested I am in the wrong church for believing in lay celebration of the Eucharist. Apostolicae Curae makes interesting reading and, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, ALL Anglican Eucharists are lay celebrated because of a defect in ordination. What is also clear is that the Church of England intentionally withdrew from the sacrificial connotations of priesthood to which I object. So oddly, I find my personal views largely supported by the Catholic Church, albeit what they see as defects, I see as improvements. In Saepius Officio, the English Archbishops take… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Kate, “Moreover, as I understand it present day Catholic teaching is that anyone who does not fully accept Apostolicae Curae is not in full communion with the Catholic Church.” This is something of a an amateurish and naive reading of things given the “pilgrim pairings” of Anglican and R.C. bishops. Clearly Rome is attempting to sidestep its own Pio nono dogmatism without actually recanting the same. As long as the “pairs of bishops” are men the message is, pay no attention to Apostolic Curiae. Not in full communion, quite rightly; but “absolutely null and void” given the pairings? Hardly!… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

Rod, I don’t think you grasp how diplomacy works. Working together in small ways comes long before recognition of status. And indeed, the Northern Ireland peace process was concluded without Sinn Fein ever recognising the status of the Queen. The “pilgrim pairings” suggests no diminution of Apostolicae Curae nor any indication that it might be reviewed. In Catholic eyes, Anglican presbyters are not priests, nor are Anglican bishops, bishops. That doesn’t mean Catholics don’t recognise Anglican bishops hold a prominent position within Anglican churches. They clearly do. So the pairings represent that prominence only, I suggest, not a recognition of… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Kate, “I don’t think you grasp how diplomacy works.” I think I do; but more to the point I think the hierarchies of both churches, most times anyway, grasp very well how diplomacy works. Your statements are very categorical, and do not reflect a clear grasp as to how gestures chosen with care and nuance, specifically, the choice of pairing bishops, which are signs of unity for both churches, with the commissioning of the pairings by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pontiff, each the focus of unity in their respective Communions, clearly challenges your opinion that the pairings,… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

Taken from Unitatis Redintegratio: “However, it is evident that, when individuals wish for full Catholic communion, their preparation and reconciliation is an undertaking which of its nature is distinct from ecumenical action. But there is no opposition between the two, since both proceed from the marvelous ways of God.” Reintegration is separate from ecumenism. This is further evidence that the “pilgrim pairings” represent no stepping back from Apostolicae Curae. Indeed, if you read further the text shows that the Catholic Church recognises shared communion with Orthodoxy in a way it doesn’t with Anglicanism. There can be no doubt. The Edwardian… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

” I wish we could move to a purposeful rather than ritualistic understanding of ordination. But that’s going to take years even in Anglicanism because the Anglo-Catholics will block progress every step of the way. But it is a change which is necessary, I believe, before we can achieve worldwide reunification of the Church.” – Kate – Dear Kate, here. yet again, you persist in your misunderstanding of what priestly or episcopal ordination is all about. When Jesus laid his hands on the Apostles, he set them apart for the tasks that would fall to their lot. Church Tradition has… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Guest

I’ve been following the discussions in this thread, and I find myself half and half… which means as usual I believe in embracing diverse views, accommodating both, and praying for love and grace to affirm our unity in Christ. As a catholic Anglican, I believe in the Presence in the sacraments, and indeed in transubstantiation. And I believe in the call of certain people – not all – to the ministry of the priesthood. For this reason, my ideal is for Eucharist to be led and celebrated by a priest. Having said that, I also believe – in a different… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“[presiding at the Eucharist] is only one of the tasks of Mission, but a specific task – and gifting – of the Holy spirit) nevertheless, and was not given to everyone”

So the gift of the Spirit isn’t a gift from the Lord sent by Jesus but something in your power as a priest to give or withhold. That’s not Anglicanism and never will be.

Nor does Anglicanism have a “sacerdotal priesthood”.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@kate, there is no logical connection between the out of context citation and whatever point you are trying to make.

Kate
Guest
Kate

“I appreciate that people hold differing views, but – rather than division – I prefer to found and build ourselves on the unity we all have in Jesus Christ. If Anglicans, Catholic, Baptist or Orthodox are in communion with Christ, we are in communion with each other, like it or not. Even if we hold different beliefs about a wide range of things.” Exactly. Which means accepting a common baptism and that Eucharist is valid no matter who presides and regardless of the rite… And accept that rites for ordination etc are irrelevant. That’s where union lies but we both… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“So the gift of the Spirit isn’t a gift from the Lord sent by Jesus but something in your power as a priest to give or withhold. That’s not Anglicanism and never will be. Nor does Anglicanism have a “sacerdotal priesthood”. – Kate – I’m sorry Kate, I just can’t let this pass for want of a response. The only ‘power’ in the exercise of priesthood, is that which is given by Christ through the Holy Spirit. e.g.: One of the gifts bestowed upon the Apostles by Jesus in the Upper Room after his resurrection was this “Whose soever sins… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

In so many places Jesus says that he is the sole avenue for the forgiveness of sins that John 20:23 cannot mean what you claim. Many commentaries address this and the correct meaning is that the Apostles were charged with revealing to the world that faith in Christ Jesus has the power to forgive sins if we repent. Even if one were to read John 20:23 as the actual power to forgive sins bring imparted, there is zero evidence that the power to further delegate that authority was granted. There is no evidence that Apostolic Succession imparts any authority. Moreover,… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

The following items, just a few among the many that may be referenced, may be of interest. (1) From the Canadian BCP (1962), Form of Confession and Absolution, the priest shall absolve, “Our Lord Jesus Christ who hath left power to his church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him: Of his great mercy forgive thee thine offences.And by his authority committed to me, I absolve thee from all thy sins in the name of the Father, The of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” (p. 582). (2) From the Canadian B.A.S. Introduction to The… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“You are articulating a true Catholic view of priesthood. That’s fine, for a Catholic. But it is not an Anglican view and we went through a Reformation to separate ourselves from such views which to many Anglicans are sacrilege.” – Kate –

Rubbish! The Reformation was not instigated to distance the Church in England from universal ‘catholic’ principles. You need to read a little more Church history!

Kate
Guest
Kate

The Iarccum document is very interesting, thank you. There are several noteworthy passages but four stood out for me. 1. Although “priestly language” is used to describe ministers, ministers are not priests. Indeed the document recognises that every baptised Christian is a member of this priesthood. 2. Nothing suggests that the rite of ordination is more than the Church recognising and blessing something which has already happened. 3. Ministers don’t forgive sins, but merely pronounce that God has forgiven sins. Moreover it isn’t said to an individual but addressed to all communicants. That is entirely in accordance with Anglican tenets.… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“Rubbish! The Reformation was not instigated to distance the Church in England from universal ‘catholic’ principles. You need to read a little more Church history!”
Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Wednesday, 19 October 2016 at 10:39am

http://www.stjohnse15.co.uk/fabric/martyrs.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Clitherow

Is that the sort of church history you mean? Christians of both denominations died horribly because the English Reformation did separate the Church of England from Catholic traditions. We dishonour their faith and martyrdom if we suggest that there was, in fact, no challenge to principles.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Kate, your rejoinders suggest that you have only a cursory understanding of the various documents which are the legacy and “paper trail” of nuanced ecumenical work done over a long period of time. Am I wrong in concluding that this is the first time you may have read some of these documents? The ARCIC statement # 10 references the “apostolic faith” in general. It does not occur to you, I gather, that the reference, coming in an agreed statement, may actually be a positive step forward in getting past the rhetoric of a previous century. However,Apostolic Curae was flagged… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“You write, “Nothing in the text when it is read carefully suggests that a minister needs to be ordained to preside over the Eucharist.” To use a text developed by Anglican and Roman Catholic theologians with your take away on it is risible.”

So where does the document say that a minister must be ordained to preside over the Eucharist? Can you please quote the bit because I really don’t believe it is in there.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Kate, The ARCIC statements assume all the variables of the two traditions. It is somewhat puzzling you would ask this question given that both Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism have ordinations rites, an ordered ministry, Eucharistic liturgies and the like. The ARCIC statements, each with a particular focus on a particular aspect of the issue, must be read in conjunction with one another. Surely you must know this. To cut to the chase, note the following regarding the ARCIC statement on the Eucharist (see link). See also Lambeth 1988 on the matter. “We affirm that only a validly ordained priest… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

Quick follow up, folks interested in this issue and the documents pertaining to the same, may find the IARCCUM site with its archives, useful.

https://iarccum.org/

Kate
Guest
Kate

You are walking the same ground as GAFCON as presuming that ARCIC statements or Lambeth declarations represent settled Anglican doctrine. They don’t. The CofE House of Bishops paper “the Eucharist: sacrament of unity” presents some significant criticisms of ARCIC statements on the Eucharist in terms of the Roman Catholic interpretation of things. I presume other provinces do too. Similarly Lambeth 1988 Resolution I also expresses reservations about the then most recent ARCIC statements. I cannot, however, find your quotation in any of the Lambeth 1988 Resolutions. Which one are you quoting from please? What is in Lambeth 1988 though is… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

Dear Kate, Did you realise that, although the archbishop of Sydney has a ‘low-Church’ understanding of priesthood he would never ordain women priests? Despite all your protestations – coming from your own understandings of the Anglican Churches around the world – you just have to accept that the necessity for the Ordination of priests is a fact guaranteed in the various constitutions. The role of ‘ministers’, of course, can include licensed lay-people, but that is something different from ‘priesthood’. The ‘priesthood of the laity’ can be licensed but this is not considered to be the rite of ordination. The Concise… Read more »

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

@ Kate, The Lambeth Resolution under consideration here is Lambeth 1988 Resolution 8 Note item 1. (see link for the entire text) http://www.anglicancommunion.org/resources/document-library/lambeth-conference/1988/resolution-8-anglican-roman-catholic-international-commission-(arcic)?author=Lambeth+Conference&year=1988 Of course there are criticisms of ARCIC. I have offered some here myself. One can note the views of then Archbishop of Canterbury George Carey on ARCIC at one point, or go back as far as the Nottingham Statement in 1977 for that matter, if memory serves me correctly. But criticism does not undercut either the significance or the progress of the enterprise. And no, I’m not taking the approach to Lambeth that some GAFCON chaps have… Read more »

David Emmott
Guest
David Emmott

Kate said: ‘You are articulating a true Catholic view of priesthood. That’s fine, for a Catholic. But it is not an Anglican view and we went through a Reformation to separate ourselves from such views which to many Anglicans are sacrilege.’ That’s a bit like saying that 52% of Britons (well, those voting) voted for Brexit and therefore the views and conscience of the other 48% are of no account. The Church of England after the ‘reformation’ is the same church that existed before; a significant minority if not even a majority of those who found themselves now described as… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

Using the Brexit analogy, you seem to be arguing that after the UK leaves the EU, pro-Europeans should continue to see themselves as European Citizens and expect others to adopt new European directives when they come out.

JCF
Guest
JCF

“We dishonour their faith and martyrdom if we suggest that there was, in fact, no challenge to principles.”

Oh brother (sister): it’s not “whoever shed the most blood, wins”. Everyone knows that BOTH (all) sides of the Reformation nobly died, and abominably slayed.

If the “blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church”, I would suggest that unbending certitude is the sheath of the slaying sword. See the PARADOX already, and compromise!