Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 25 October 2017

Martin Sewell Archbishop Cranmer “I need a friendly bishop,” said the child abuse survivor, as the prelate passed by on the other side

Josh Parry Liverpool Echo Why I won’t be donating a Christmas charity shoebox this year – and you shouldn’t either

ViaMedia.News A Zero Tolerance Approach to the Weinsteins in the Church?

Adrian Alker PCN Britain She’s a woman – get over it!

Mark Harris Preludium AAC, ACNA and GAFCON, wandering astray in the fields of the Lord

Michael Sadgrove Woolgathering in North East England Crumbling Cathedrals?

Mike Higton kaì euthùs Making our minds up

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Susannah Clark
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Mike Higton’s article is interesting at a philosophical level (and possibly could be useful practically) but there is a problem with Justin’s position (as typified by that interview) of ‘sitting on the fence’ in some kind of moral confusion. The problem is that he presides over a Church that requires gay priests to live in celibacy. That’s not sitting on the fence. If Justin is ‘not sure’ about gay sexuality, how can he justify the punitive restrictions imposed on gay people’s lives? “I don’t know if gay sex is a sin, but we’re having no gay sex among the priests… Read more »

Susannah Clark
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Hmmm… here we go again… the topic which costs me popularity on this forum I fear (not that’s a big issue)… Adrian Alker seems to be demonstrating the capacity of liberal England ‘to tolerate diverse conscience providing they agree with me’. As I have stated before: 1. I personally strongly believe that women are as appropriate and well-equipped to be priests as men are. 2. Nevertheless, I believe that the traditional position in catholicism and orthodoxy that priests are supposed to be men, is a position that can be theologically argued and asserted, and that it is a conscientious position… Read more »

Susannah Clark
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I’d add to Mark Harris’s updated views on ACNA and GAFCON two recent sets of comments: 1. Nicholas Okoh’s latest statement on 18th October, demanding ACNA be recognised as part of the Anglican Communion – https://www.gafcon.org/news/chairmans-october-2017-letter 2. Gregory Venables recent questioning of how the Primates’ communique was put together – http://anglican.ink/article/thoughts-%C2%A0-primates-meeting-archbishop-gregory-venables I tend to agree with Mark’s assessment that GAFCON leaders may be feeling a loss of traction, and Nicholas sounds a bit desperate when he writes: “Let me humbly advise Canterbury here to take urgent steps to recognise ACNA as an authentic Province of the Anglican Communion before new… Read more »

Janet Fife
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Janet Fife

What a powerful piece Martin Sewell has written, and how damning of our dealings with abuse survivors. The account he gives of one survivor’s dealings with a bishop is very similar to the response Gilo and others have had. Do our leaders have any compassion, any sense of justice, any pastoral ability at all? ‘Is there no balm in Gilead, no physician there?

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

What process exists to recognise ACNA as a Province of the A.C.? I can’t imagine most of us in the C of E would want it.The Archbishop can’t presumably anounce it ex cathedra.Is the ACC involved in the recognition of new Provinces? Im not sure Abp Okoh knows who to ask.

James Byron
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James Byron

It is a powerful piece, Janet: the comments, however …

Jeremy
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Jeremy

Venables: “It’s more than ‘not right.’ It’s life and death, and it has to be dealt with.”

Why the “life” of fundamentalists depends on imposing their interpretation of Scripture on everyone else (sometimes resulting in deaths of LGBTQ people) is left entirely unexplained.

That is, unless Venables envisions an Almighty Judge who is so incompetent that he must mete out collective punishment.

Janet Fife
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Janet Fife

James Byron, your comment prompted me to look at the responses on the Cranmer blog. Many of the people commenting seem to be more concerned about clergy wear than they are about victims of clergy abuse. That’s shocking. Or it should be, but since I did my MPhil on this subject in the 90s, I’ve frequently encountered this attitude. It reminds me of the old man who fell at Mar-a-Lago and was badly hurt, and all Trump was worried about was the ‘disgusting’ blood on his nice marble floor. It’s hardly surprising attendance figures continue to decline, if we’re more… Read more »

Simon Dawson
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Simon Dawson

Ref the Cranmer blog,

If you sort by the newest posts (the default process) then you will be shown a discussion of liturgical apparel. Press the sort by oldest post button however and you will find the naked homophobia referred to above.

Janet Fife
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Janet Fife

Simon, I had read through the newest posts and there is hardly any serious response to the point Martin Sewell was making. There is quite a lot of comment about the artwork, though, and the woman bishop, and clergy clothing.

ExRevd
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ExRevd

Regarding Simon Dawson’s post, I’m really troubled that this site is linking to Archbshop Cranmer’s. It’s essentially an Ecclesiastical “Guido Fawkes” (I would be unsurprised if the Venn diagrams of their personnel overlapped) Can we have more than one degree of separation from “Identitarian Anglicans”? Please?

Father David
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Father David

Isn’t it worrying that the comments on this thread are so concerned about comments on Cranmer about clerical attire?

Janet Fife
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Janet Fife

I’ve now figured out how to access the older posts on the Cranmer blog. Yes, the homophobia there is awful. That doesn’t detract from Martin Sewell’s piece being a valuable one, but it does suggest the comments should be moderated.

It also reinforces my point that when abuse in the church is being discussed, people find it very easy to turn the subject away from survivors and victims and onto almost anything else.

Stanley Monkhouse
Guest

FWIW I find some pieces on Cranmer good and thoughtful. Some are provocative, but then I think we all need to be provoked – how else can we hone our own views?. Some give me a good laugh for all the wrong reasons. Mrs Proudie’s column usually on a Saturday is often laugh out loud, but then my wife says I’m puerile. So please, TA, don’t stop linking to His Grace’s blog as and when you think fit.

James Byron
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James Byron

I echo Stanley’s call to continue linking “his grace,” regardless of the comments. I’m against echo-chambers on principle, but in any case, he writes interesting pieces from a Prayer Book conservative POV and the affectation’s entertaining. As out-there as the commentators can get, we should all know what’s being said.

Anne
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Anne

Martin Sewell’s piece is a breath of fresh air which I hope all Diocesan Safeguarding Advisors as well as the National church will take seriously. However, his words are seriously undermined by the picture at the top which clearly shows a bishop wearing a skirt who is, therefore, a woman. This detracts from the post and is an unnecessary, snide way of undermining the ministry of our bishops who are women and I suggest may unwittingly demonstrate Arhbishop Cranmer’s personal views. I have a strong feeling that our women bishops are much less likely to walk by on the other… Read more »