Thinking Anglicans

Lambeth Conference 2022 – even more news and comment

There is earlier news here, here, herehere and here

Lambeth Conference website
Christians today can change the world like the original disciples – Lambeth Conference hears
Join with us to fight world crises such as climate change and poverty – Bishops’ invitation to leaders of other faiths
Lambeth Conference Calls for Church Unity amid ‘ecumenical emergency’
Global environmental restoration plan launched at Lambeth Conference

Archbishop of Canterbury
Archbishop Justin Welby’s second Keynote Address at the Lambeth Conference

Anglican Communion News Service
Anglican bishops from across the world offer their thoughts on the 2022 Lambeth Conference

Lambeth ’22 Resource Group
Orthodox Bishops map out a robust future & hopeful of a re-setting of the Anglican Communion

Episcopal News Service
At Lambeth Palace, bishops and spouses celebrate launch of Anglican Communion forest initiative
Spotlight turns toward ecumenical, interfaith relations in Lambeth Conference sessions
Spouses’ program at Lambeth forges bonds across geographic and ideological divides
Bishops at Lambeth Conference are encouraged to prioritize making disciples centered on Christ
COVID-19 at Lambeth: Few precautions, but also few cases – so far
Archbishop of Canterbury calls churches to be ‘revolutionary’ to meet modern challenges

Church Times
Lambeth 2022: Don’t ignore darker side when engaging with other faiths, bishops told
Lambeth 2022: What unity do you desire, bishops are asked
Lambeth 2022: Anglican Communion has shifted on sexuality, says Bishop Vann
Lambeth 2022: Discipleship — from pew-warmer to Jesus-shaped life
Lambeth 2022: Prayer vigil highlights starvation facing millions in East Africa
Lambeth 2022: Revolution is our calling, declares Welby
Lambeth 2022: Focus on bigger picture, Makgoba tells Lambeth Conference participants

The Living Church
Bishops Set Terms for Post-Lambeth Sexuality Debate
Bishops Focus on Church Unity, Interfaith Relations
Lambeth Launches a Global Forest Project

The Guardian
Justin Welby says it is ‘very difficult’ to hold church together over sexuality

Andrew Goddard
The End of (the) Communion? (i) What has been said?
The End of (the) Communion? (ii): So where are we now?

Kelvin Holdsworth
Fact checking Sandi Toksvig

Archbishop Cranmer
Sandi Toksvig and her caricature Church of England

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Interested Observer
Interested Observer
5 days ago

Messrs Holdsworth and Cranmer should reflect on a well known dictum in politics: when you are explaining, you are losing. Explaining, at tedious length, why the reader is wrong never works. If they didn’t understand the first time, it’s because you weren’t clear, and attempting to explain that in even more opaque terms is not going to convince anyone. Welby has perfected the technique of writing badly enough that no one can be quite certain what he means; he can hardly complain when sometimes they don’t get the same meaning from his waffle that he later claims to have intended.… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Interested Observer
4 days ago

Even so, it is important to respond, even if your response is “Dear Ms Toksvig, Thanks for your letter. Your description of the discussions at the Lambeth conference is quite inaccurate and ignores most of what was said. I understand that as a Humanist you are not in agreement with the beliefs of the Anglican church. Yours etc.”

Last edited 4 days ago by Unreliable Narrator
Graham Watts
Graham Watts
Reply to  Interested Observer
4 days ago

My thoughts exactly. Though I am not sure if this vagueness is writing badly or deliberately being unspecific so that the only way of making sense of it is to fill in the missing parts. That way each listener will hear what they want to hear in order to be comforted, outraged, affirmed, disgusted, etc etc.

Tim Chesterton
Reply to  Interested Observer
4 days ago

I honestly don’t see how Justin could have been clearer. He has stated the reality that there is no ‘common mind’ in the AC on this issue. He has affirmed the integrity of those who have chosen to change their doctrines and policies. He has refused to put people in the naughty box as his predecessor did. Speaking as a Canadian, in a province on the Global South’s hit list, his words felt very significant.

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Tim Chesterton
4 days ago

I agree. He was in an incredibly hard situation (you could argue, by not confronting these issues sooner). He was trying to hold the Communion together for all the many good things (and great needs) it can address and share. But faced with an attempt to turn the Communion into a top-down ‘Church’ which could impose uniformity on everyone (notwithstanding the reality of plurality of belief)… he made a clear statement that he was not prepared to be part of that… would not discipline the minority view, to which he attributed credibility and seriousness. He was presenting (a) realities (b)… Read more »

Philip Johanson
Philip Johanson
Reply to  Tim Chesterton
4 days ago

It is agreed that the Archbishop of Canterbury is first amongst equals. It therefore follows that he does not have authority to discipline or exclude a church of The Anglican Communion. He has said that himself at the Lambeth Conference.  The only sanction he has at his disposal is to exclude people attending the Lambeth Conference as he convenes that gathering and is the host. He has used the sanction at his disposal by not inviting the partners of bishops in same sex relationships. That in itself says something about the view of the Archbishop.    I think you will find that it was… Read more »

Tim Chesterton
Reply to  Philip Johanson
3 days ago

‘I think you will find that it was not his predecessor who sanctioned certain provinces, rather it was the Anglican Consultative Council.’

Of course. Just as it is not Justin who went on at great length about sexuality in this LC; rather,it was the global south. Despite Sandi Toksvig’s insinuations to the contrary.

Jeremy
Jeremy
Reply to  Philip Johanson
3 days ago

I’m not sure the Archbishop has any power not to invite provinces that have attended the Lambeth Conference ever since it began. If he tried to do that, then they might have a claim against him.

Simon Kershaw
Reply to  Jeremy
3 days ago

There is no right to attend the Conference. The Archbishop of Canterbury can invite whoever they wish. For example, the Bishop of New Hampshire was not invited to the last Conference in 2008.

Father Ron Smith
5 days ago

Something must surely be done to disabuse the organisers of a website named by its organiser ‘Anglican Mainstream’ – which however might better be called ‘Anglican Slipstream’, relating as it does to a sort of Anglicanism embraced by schismatically- inclined Con/Evo sodality led by the GAFCON/ACNA/GSFA axis – of their dishonestly in claiming they represent what they are pleased to call ‘Anglican Orthodoxy‘. Here is a paragraph from their latest blog-post: “Orthodox bishops believe at the end of the conference, the Communion is “not in a healthy, working state”, and that “the road to recovery and spiritual vibrancy will be long, and must… Read more »

Peter from Down Under
Peter from Down Under
Reply to  Father Ron Smith
3 days ago

Quite right, Fr Ron. The cowardice of it all is disgraceful. “Anglican mainstream” it is not. And as for the gaslighting with the official-sounding lambeth22resourcegroup.com. Enough said.

Richard Grand
Richard Grand
5 days ago

Andrew Goddard makes some insightful comments, However, his assertion that the Anglican Church in North America is growing is questionable. The fact is that they are growing and not growing (or shrinking) at the same time. Many factors contribute to this, such as whether or not they are former TEC dioceses, affiliation with Nigerian or other churches and those sticky relationships, and their style of church-planting, beliefs, etc. But, strictly speaking, growth is elusive and hard to measure. It is not a matter of continuous growth and success.

Richard Grand
Richard Grand
5 days ago

One of the facts (or concerns) rarely mentioned, is that, while claiming that GAFCON represents the “Global South.” especially at Lambeth, and that they are facing “white privilege,” a white American ACNA bishop (their chief bishop, Foley Beach,) is apparently the leader of GAFCON. ACNA is part of GAFCON, but not the Communion, and we see their influence. The irony that a mostly white American Church is prominent in GAFCON should not be ignored. A recent commentator pointed out that this gives ACNA access to all documents and statements issued by GAFCON. The number of conservative American/western commentators who make… Read more »

Ronnie Smith
Reply to  Richard Grand
4 days ago

Richard, you are right. The oddity about the GS/Global South entity, is that Gafcon is now led by the Archbishop of ACNA (no connection with the ACC) who lives in North America. What is really confusing is that my province of ACANZP actually IS IN the global South, but we are neither GAFCON/ACNA nor part of the 2 separate sodalities (GSFA and GAFCON) that are trying to take over the identity and soul of the A.C.C. Part of the G.S. location confusion is that the former Archbishop of Sydney, Peter Jensen, one of the prime movers of G.S. and, later,… Read more »

Richard
Richard
Reply to  Ronnie Smith
4 days ago

Ron, I think you mean that there are no female PRIESTS in Sydney. Moore College churns out a lot of female deacons.

Ronnie Smith
Reply to  Richard
4 days ago

Yes, Richard. There are neither women priests nor bishops in the Sydney diocese. And yes, Moore College is turning out suitably con/evo women deacons (but, do they allow them to preach?) Who knows? – when Sydney decides to introduce lay Celebration of the ‘Last Supper’ (something Sydney has long advocated) they might even consider women worthy of that ministry?

Richard
Richard
Reply to  Ronnie Smith
4 days ago

Female deacons are permitted to preach, certainly to an audience of women and children. I once heard Abp Jensen say that because women are allowed to preach (at least in some situations), they would certainly be able to “administer” the Lords Supper… because Word and Sacrament are equal. A female chaplain (deacon, of course) of a girls’ school could preach and celebrate at that school for those girls, but likely never preach at a Sunday “meeting” in a parish church. I find it interesting that on SydneyAnglicans.org, the Senior Clergy page lists the Archdeacon for Women by seniority of her… Read more »

Charles Read
Charles Read
Reply to  Richard
3 days ago

Big deal. And women are supposed to be grateful for this? This is not the equality of which the Bible speaks. Presumably women ordained priest would only be able to preside at communion for an all female congregation.

Richard
Richard
Reply to  Charles Read
3 days ago

Please don’t misunderstand. I am not advocating this; I’m merely stating what the situation is in Sydney.

There are no female priests. Abp Jensen’s musings about a female deacon administering the Lord’s Supper is no more than his musings. Peter from Down Under is correct: boys only.

Peter from Down Under
Peter from Down Under
Reply to  Ronnie Smith
3 days ago

Lay presidency has been a fact in Sydney for years … and it’s boys only.

Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

I can only conclude that the AoC’s leadership of the LC has been self indulgent and harmful to the long term prospects of the Anglican Communion. The doctrine of marriage has been declared to be adiaphora, something neither ‘side’ would affirm, without reference to the other three Instruments of Communion. The idea of plurality of doctrine within the Anglican Communion has been introduced again without reference to the Instruments of Communion, but without allowing any time for the Bishops to assess how this affects their relationships within the Anglican Communion. Progressives and traditionalists hear enough for them to claim a… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

No Stephen, he is just stating reality. It’s where the Communion is at. There is a plurality of views. He will not discipline or exclude those who with biblical and theological seriousness affirm gay relationships. If the ‘Global South’ group wants to try to wrest control of the Communion and set up a ‘Faith and Order Commission’ to impose a false uniformity on everyone, then that is for them to say. But Justin was merely confronting them with the reality: there is no ‘ONE MIND’ in the Communion. Provinces hold a plurality of views in good conscience. He’s right to… Read more »

Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
Reply to  Susannah Clark
4 days ago

Perhaps it’s time to conclude that if the argument for a change in the CoE’s doctrine of marriage has not been successful over 50+ years it is time to ask what the Spirit is saying to us as a church. If the LLF process, probably the best chance of producing change, does not result in substantial change of doctrine or pastoral practice I’d say it’s time to say that the CoE has given the issue due attention but can’t fulfil all of the progressive agenda at present.

Kate
Kate
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

There were several bishops at Lambeth Conference in same sex marriages this time. There was an attempt to exclude the spouses – it largely failed. There was an attempt to sanction the provinces whence came those bishops – it failed. There was an attempt to get the Conference to reaffirm Lambeth 1.10 – it failed.

To suggest that the Spirit isn’t having an impact is obviously wrong even if we potentially haven’t reached the tipping point in the Church of England itself.

Fr Andrew
Fr Andrew
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

But the need for change has been successfully argued; just the change hasn’t been produced largely by the process of avoiding making a decision, in the name of much vaunted but evanescent unity. The process of examination has long been deliberately hamstrung and/or ignored. I’d say rather the C of E has not been allowed to come to any decision other than maintaining the status quo. And of course marriage doctrine has been changed in the last 50 years- remarriage of divorcees in church anyone?- and we’ve not been debating equal marriage since 1972: start of the 2000s at the… Read more »

Last edited 4 days ago by Fr Andrew
Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
Reply to  Fr Andrew
3 days ago

My response is just one answer to Susannah’s question: ‘how else can the 50+ year long impasse be dealt with?’ It’s a great question with no easy answer.

Pat ONeill
Pat ONeill
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

I find it hard to consider anything that causes pain and suffering to innocent people to be the work of the Spirit.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Pat ONeill
3 days ago

That’s rather begging the question, though, by assuming that certain acts (I don’t say people) are innocent.

Pat ONeill
Pat ONeill
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
3 days ago

Yes, but I do so assume, because I believe (and science has, for the most part, proven), that same-sex attraction is not a choice (any more than opposite-sex attraction is a choice) and, therefore, sexual relations with those of the same gender are biologically driven and not sinful or criminal – hence, innocent.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Pat ONeill
2 days ago

That is doubly a non-sequitur. Firstly, our attractions are not the same thing as our actions. Secondly, there is no logical connection between actions being biologically driven (whatever that means) and them being right or wrong. To give a tedious number of counter-examples. Even if sexual attraction is equally biologically driven, yet we are comfortable with regarding adultery, say, as sinful. Hunger is a biological imperative, yet we regard gluttony as sinful. Warmth and shelter are biological imperatives, and yet some regard burning carbonaceous fuels as sinful. Sleep is a biological imperative, yet we regard sloth as sinful. It is… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

If that is correct, then I think the Church of England must prepare for disestablishment within the next decade.

Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
4 days ago

Just in case the Archbishop of York is feeling left out I notice that his chaplain now gets an executive assistant at £31k-£34k a year https://pathways.churchofengland.org/job/pathways/3461/executive-assistant-to-the-archbishop-s-chaplain Last year he got a chief of staff at £90k a year, no doubt with the associated support staff for that role. Which part of simpler, bolder and humbler does this express? Appointing your way out of the administrative burden is one solution, the other way is to reduce the administrative burden. There is a message here to a watching church. The vision is for you lot to implement, not me. The money is… Read more »

Susannah Clark
4 days ago

There is a follow-up article to Andrew Goddard’s first review of Lambeth: ‘So where are we now?‘ I think he’s correct in his recognition that Justin has leaned a bit more towards pluralism in the Communion on issues like sexuality (or at least he’s recognised that that is the de facto reality), but I’d suggest that this does not mean what Andrew claims is “sidelining or abandoning the quest to be of one mind” on many issues. I think the Conference demonstrated that coming together to share vision on many issues. Regrettably (in my view) Andrew seems to insist that… Read more »

Susannah Clark
4 days ago

In further response to Andrew, who I think leans towards the Global South ‘covenantal structure’, I believe this ‘one mind’ condition of Communion membership is too rigid. It’s just not real. We are NOT of ‘one mind’. And yet we are Christians. If we accept the principal of pluralism – which Justin was leaning towards this week, if only as a recognition of reality – and if we stay in communion, in a looser expression, accommodating the diversities of people, conscientious Christian views, cultures, expressions… then there is still so much to gain in our shared bonds, exploring so many… Read more »

Philip Groves
Philip Groves
4 days ago

I am back from Canterbury now. The dominating talk among bishops is about the dreadful state of the world with war, hunger and climate disaster. Bishops are working on building relationships between those most affected and those who have some links with political and financial power. The GSFA is a side show almost unnoticed in the conference. The South Sudanese Bishops are most concerned about ensuring they get to go to Salisbury. I have seen the twitter feed of the bishops of one one African Province and there was a lot of talk about how they persuade one of their… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
Reply to  Philip Groves
4 days ago

“War, hunger and climate disaster.”
These are interconnected, especially after Russia invaded Ukraine. It would be ironic if Vladimir Putin, of all intensely homophobic people, inadvertently caused Anglican bishops to refocus away from sexuality, and toward other issues (that some may see as more immediate or consequential).

Charles Clapham
4 days ago

I can see Kelvin Holdsworth might be correct in terms of a detailed reading of texts (no mention that gay sex is ‘sinful’, for example), but I think that Sandi Toksvig captures more accurately the way in which the Archbishop’s comments have been understood more generally by the public – including by members of my own congregation. One gay member of my congregation emailed me earlier this week to say they have decided they just can’t engage any longer with church following the Archbishop’s statement. This person was kind enough to say they did not blame me as the vicar,… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Charles Clapham
4 days ago

Charles, I understand why parishioners might read the banner headlines of some media and assume that Justin Welby was advocating that the Communion should maintain the 1998 I:10 position because it’s the majority view. But he really didn’t say that. He stated the reality: that the present (and unrevoked) 1998 I:10 is the majority position in the Church. But, he also ‘talked up’ the seriousness of the affirming position as held by other Christians, and said he would not discipline or exclude them. He suggested that a ‘plural’ accommodation of both views might be necessary in some Provinces. I think… Read more »

David Runcorn
David Runcorn
Reply to  Susannah Clark
4 days ago

I agree Susannah. In passing, I have re-entered familiar social media/blog threads while at the Lambeth Conference and noted how hard it is to accurately follow what was actually happening the ground. Information was frequently mis-reported, motives mis-represented, mistakes (and there were) inflated and achievements and priorities minimised or ignored. Stories claimed on twitter about events I was actually attending that were simply not true. I reflect how every time I use social media and media in general for my opinion forming I am choosing a narrative or multiple narratives. Not only does that need great wisdom, it is still… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Susannah Clark
3 days ago

Edit:

For: “the present (and unrevoked) 1998 I:10 is the majority position in the Church”

Read: “the present (and unrevoked) 1998 I:10 is the majority position in the Communion”

Jeremy
Jeremy
Reply to  Susannah Clark
3 days ago

Suggest rather: ““the present (and unrevoked) 1998 I:10 is the majority position in the Lambeth Conference.”
And even then we see that the bishops signing the conservative statement numbered barely 100.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Charles Clapham
3 days ago

Is it possible that Ms Toksvig’s comments were not intended to capture the Archbishop’s comments accurately, but to present — or misrepresent — them in a way that advanced her own agenda? She presumably knew perfectly well that she was not giving an accurate rendition of Welby’s point, but intend to capture not his point but the public narrative for her own position. Since she is a prominent humanist, she presumably feels that separating a member of your congregation from the church is a laudable action which would justify any deliberate inaccuracy.

Last edited 3 days ago by Unreliable Narrator
Charles Clapham
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
3 days ago

The impression the member of my congregation had (from the mainstream media reporting in the UK press, I think, not from Sandi Toksvig in particular) was that the Archbishop had affirmed that the original Lambeth resolution (from 1998) was ‘still in existence and still valid’. And I can entirely see why they (and others like Sandi Toksvig) might have this impression, since the Archbishop pretty much said exactly this. . Of course, you can contextualise this by pointing to other things the Archbishop said (and I in fact did this this morning in my sermon on this issue!) but I… Read more »

Last edited 3 days ago by Charles Clapham
Tim Chesterton
Reply to  Charles Clapham
3 days ago

‘I wonder whether Kelvin’s or Cherry Vann’s more positive reading of the conference is a reflection of their location – that from a Sottish or Welsh perspective, it may feel that the Welby finally acknowledge the legitimacy of Scottish and Welsh churches’ position within the Anglican communion’

Charles, that is certainly true for me. My church has experienced being sanctioned.

Richard Grand
Richard Grand
4 days ago

An important read about behind the scenes maneuvering at Lambeth.

https://episcopaljournal.org/thoughts-on-cleaning-out-the-stalls-at-lambeth/

Charles Read
Charles Read
Reply to  Richard Grand
4 days ago

I am currently at a conference in the USA where I have met some ACNA people as I have on the last few times I have attended. They have all been women, some of whom left TEC over same-sex marriage issues and some of whom joined ACNA from other churches or through coming to faith for the first time. Two things they frequently tell me: they were told that ACNA accepts the ordination of women but also allows members not to accept it – much as the C of E does -but have found in practice that it does not.… Read more »

David Runcorn
David Runcorn
Reply to  Charles Read
3 days ago

And a reminder, with all else getting the attention, that the honouring and full partnership of women within the church is far from resolved yet.

Perry Butler
Perry Butler
Reply to  Charles Read
3 days ago

Do you have much sense of the strength of ACNA Charles? I get the impression it is something of an umbrella. with Fort Worth Anglo Catholics, former TEC dioceses (S Carolina, San Joaquin, Quincy) the Protestant Reformed Episcopal Church, churches (bishops?) in communion with Nigeria or elsewhere. Does it all hold together? Is it growing? I imagine it has picked up evangelicals from elsewhere seeking a liturgical spirituality besides disaffected TEC members. The “women’s ordination” issue is clearly unsettled. And how many provinces of the AC are in communion with it?

dr.primrose
dr.primrose
Reply to  Perry Butler
3 days ago

The Wikipedia article on ACNA says, “the church reported 30 dioceses and 1,037 congregations serving an estimated membership of 134,593 in 2017. In 2020, the denomination reported 972 congregations and 126,760 members.” So declining if those numbers are correct. . In the last several years, ACNA disciplined some several bishops for their own misconduct or essentially covering up the misconduct of priests under their supervision. . You’re right that ACNA is a bit of a mishmash with Anglo-Catholics from Ft. Worth, Quincy and San Joaquin who are joined with the REC, which left TEC in the 19th century over issues… Read more »

Rob
Rob
Reply to  Charles Read
2 days ago

ACNA priest here, I don’t know any clergy who think the ABC will replace TEC with ACNA. Ten years ago, this was a vague hope. Now, most see our future with GAFCON and the Global South. We want to focus on evangelism and mission, continuing to reach people outside the church with the Gospel while offering a hand to like minded Anglicans in declining liberal provinces. We expect liberal provinces to slowly die and collapse inward like TEC. We see our future with the growing Global South, though we do pray for revival among the liberal provinces. — Some see… Read more »

John Wirenius
Reply to  Rob
2 days ago

I don’t mean to be unkind, but if TEC did collapse, I would sooner continue with the prayers and the breaking of the bread in the ruins than to ever associate myself with ACNA or GAFCON.

Last edited 2 days ago by John Wirenius
Jo B
Jo B
Reply to  Rob
1 day ago

“ACNA is growing”. And Soviet tractor production is higher than ever before.

Struggling Anglican
Struggling Anglican
4 days ago

I clicked on the article about the ‘Orthodox’ thinking that it was about the great Orthodox churches of the Greece, Russia etc etc.
I see the word had been hijacked to describe Anglicans of a particular disposition.
How deeply saddening and inappropriate this is to many of us.

Richard
Richard
Reply to  Struggling Anglican
4 days ago

They describe themselves as Orthodox, Bible-believing, Godly, and Apostolic… implying that the rest of us are not any of those things.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Richard
3 days ago

Do you think that those who describe themselves as “progressive” or “liberal” would also wish to describe themselves as “orthodox” and “bible-believing”? And if not, why would they mind those labels being used by people with whom they disagree?

Pat ONeill
Pat ONeill
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
3 days ago

No, I do not think they would–especially not “orthodox”–because that presumes that only you and those who agree with you are “right-thinking”.

Richard
Richard
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
3 days ago

I would describe myself as both progressive and liberal. I would not want to be described as unorthodox or Bible-opposed.

Jo B
Jo B
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
3 days ago

I don’t self-describe as “progressive” or “liberal” – I’m a Christian with orthodox beliefs (which, for the sake of argument, I’d use the Nicene Creed as a rough guide) who happens to believe that the gender of the partners in a marriage is irrelevant and I object to homophobia being turned into a badge of orthodoxy. I don’t use “Bible-believing” because it is God in Christ in whom I believe, the focus on the words on paper over the Word made flesh is a form of idolatry.

Struggling Anglican
Struggling Anglican
Reply to  Richard
3 days ago

Indeed, and that arrogance is the problem!

Father Ron Smith
Reply to  Struggling Anglican
1 day ago

Perhaps they mean the Russian Orthodox, whose Patriarch Kyril – together with Putin – has a similar take on homophobia and misogyny as the G.S./GAFCON axis.

Ronnie Smith
4 days ago

Mention of the ‘Anglican Covenant’ – which was rejected by all except the GSFA and GAFCON Provinces, as ‘un-Anglican’ – seems anachronistic. Am I out of step in thinking that GAFCON/GSFA have already implemented their version of this in the ‘Jerusalem Statement’? Surely it is they who have resiled from the traditional Anglican charism of UNITY in DIVERSITY. Guess who moved? Perhaps Lambeth needs to wake up to the fact that some bishops present at Lambeth are already connected to the new ‘Confessional Anglican Churches’ – which have been fostered by the GAFCON/GSFA Fellowship. We have one of these already… Read more »

Last edited 4 days ago by Ronnie Smith
Richard Grand
Richard Grand
Reply to  Ronnie Smith
3 days ago

I hope their clergy are bearded and that they have a nice iconostasis.

Tim Chesterton
4 days ago

I’m in total agreement with Kelvin. And I note that he and I are both members of provinces on the Global South’s hit list. Justin’s predecessor imposed sanctions on us. Justin has categorically refused to do that; now the GS will have to do their own sanctioning, without his support. He has also refused to use the ‘mind of the Anglican Communion’ language about same-sex marriage, stating quite clearly that there is no agreement about it. He has affirmed our theological integrity. Members of the C of E may not see the significance of this, but speaking as a Canadian… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Tim Chesterton
4 days ago

I agree. And it’s significant for England too. There are not other routes to go, in the end, except plurality… and the affirmation of gay relationships being *allowed* by all parts of the Church of England who wish to do so.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Susannah Clark
3 days ago

I suppose that logically there are two main ways forward for the Church of England. One is that one or the other seizes the levers of power and exercises that power to expel the opposition somehow. The other is that the two sides come to some agreed way of living, and worshipping, together in the same church. However, if we are to find that agreed way it must surely be on the basis of a clear understanding: as opposed to the creative ambiguity and unspoken assumptions that seems characteristic of the current situation: a situation which most agree, I think,… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
4 days ago

Much as I enjoyed the frisson of Sandi Toksvig’s Letter to the ABC, Kevin Holdsworth was surely correct in his defence of Archbishop’s Justin’s own defence of the provinces of the Communion whose Faith Journey has led them to be more accepting of the LGBQO+ community. I think he did an excellent job of conciliatory speeches which he hoped would enable the two sides to stay together – despite differences of theology and hermeneutical understanding of the Scriptures. After the Conference, it will be seen whether, or not, his inspirational leadership has worked – whether, ir not – the G.S.… Read more »

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
Reply to  Father Ron Smith
2 days ago

Archbishop Justin actually said “For the large majority of the Anglican Communion the traditional understanding of marriage is something that is understood, accepted and without question, not only by Bishops but their entire Church, and the societies in which they live. For them, to question this teaching is unthinkable,” This is conciliatory speech (your words) which throws the many committed and active pro LGBTQ+ person or campaigner within those churches over a cliff. According to the Archbishop it is now “unthinkable” that anybody within those countries might want to question or challenge such anti LGBTQ teachings. Please don’t see these… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Simon Dawson
2 days ago

Let me see if I have this argument right. In England, so it is claimed, the majority of civil society approves of same-sex marriage, therefore it is important that the church follow the majority view of civil society. In Africa, so it is claimed, the majority of civil society disapproves of same-sex marriage, therefore it is important that the church oppose the majority view of civil society. Is that correct? If so, why not simply drop the discussion about whether the majority approves or disapproves, and make a clear statement that you want the church to follow the view that… Read more »

Last edited 2 days ago by Unreliable Narrator
Susannah Clark
3 days ago

According to the ‘Lambeth ’22 Resource Group’ website, the result of GSFA’s poll on re-affirming Lambeth 1998 I:10 is due to be announced on Monday evening.

(2nd paragraph on page 2 of their pdf)

Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
3 days ago

I notice that statements on the Lambeth Conference website are using language like ‘the latest “Call” agreed by bishops at the Lambeth Conference says…’ and ‘Bishops meeting at the Lambeth Conference, taking place in Canterbury, issued a Lambeth Call’. I find it odd that statements which have no status within the Anglican Communion are being described like this. Do the Calls, except Human Dignity of course, now have something to say to Anglicans.

Richard Ashby
Richard Ashby
3 days ago

Sandi Toksvig’s letter to Justin Welby reflects accurately how the vast majority of people perceive the recent antics at Lambeth and the long standing homophobia demonstrated over the decades by the Church of England. Textual criticisms by ‘Archbishop Cranmer’ and other commentators isn’t going to change their views. Only a decisive demonstration of change, including acceptance of and the provision of same sex marriage and the public blessing of such marriages, will go some way to breaking down these well justified perceptions.

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Richard Ashby
3 days ago

Ms Toksvig’s letter presents what she, as a humanist (Patron of Humanists UK, hardly a friend of organised religion) wants the media to report, and thereby press the Church into doing what she wants it to do. That’s all. She has as much authority to represent “the vast majority of people” as you or I do.

Fr Dean
Fr Dean
Reply to  Richard Ashby
3 days ago

Richard I couldn’t agree more. Toksvig’s article may have had some factual inaccuracies but captures the mood of the majority of English people with regard to LGBTQI issues. As the CofE is an established church Ms Toksvig has every right to comment about Archbishop Welby’s maladroit statements; just as much right as a fully signed up member in fact. That right is one of the great benefits of establishment we’re told – repeatedly.

Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
2 days ago

Well, that was interesting. I’m glad the bishops all enjoyed themselves. It would be churlish to suggest otherwise. As to the quality of what they did and discerned, I am less sure. But there are some positives. Whatever may have been said about unity, the Anglican Communion was forced to reflect deeply on what it actually is. It is not a church; it may not even be a fellowship; it is a communion. In secular government terms, it is a federated structure. The lawyers keep reminding the likes of GSFA that the Anglican Communion has no juridical authority. It is… Read more »

Jo B
Jo B
Reply to  Anthony Archer
2 days ago

I’m not sure what the significance is of the “58 000 worshippers”. To me, here in Scotland, that seems like quite a large number (more than the whole SEC with its seven bishops). I suspect if you were to work out the same figure in England (using numbers actually attending church) you would end up with a significantly lower figure than 58 000.

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Anthony Archer
2 days ago

Very good overview and analysis, Anthony. If the votes are not sufficient for doctrinal change (66% I think?) then could the bishops simply “allow” churches and priests to hold and practise the affirmation of gay/lesbian relationships by doing nothing? That would create a ‘de facto’ plural approach by default, along the lines of what Justin said in the opening speech of the ‘Human Dignity’ Call session: that affirmation of gay sexuality is a view that can be held with theological seriousness; and that he will not discipline or exclude for adopting those views? Alternatively, rather than go for a 66%… Read more »

Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
Reply to  Susannah Clark
1 day ago

I think we need to draw a distinction between JW speaking to the Anglican Communion (for which he prefers provincial autonomy) and the legal constraints that apply to the CofE in term of doctrine and liturgy, and for clergy, their ordination vows. With apologies for recalling it, the Jeremy Pemberton case established, in the eyes of the law, that the CofE has a doctrine of marriage. Correspondingly the only liturgy that can be authorised or allowed must conform to that doctrine. I don’t think reversing the CofE’s exemption from gay blessings and marriage would be so simple as a synod… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
1 day ago

Well Stephen, after getting my ‘legal’ piece of paper, my priest, PCC and congregation (and 100 guests) celebrated and blessed our wedding… with wedding dresses, bridesmaids, reception etc… with the bishop’s knowledge, and official ‘not wanting to know about it’… and that was the will of our church community. It was wonderful. The Parliament issue I mentioned was just one approach among several I mentioned, and may take some time. But meanwhile, rather than a 66% vote to change doctrine, it is entirely feasible that bishops will choose to ‘not enforce’ any ban on blessings and services, or ‘not notice’… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Susannah Clark
Stephen Griffiths
Stephen Griffiths
Reply to  Susannah Clark
1 day ago

I am also a great fan of the congregational model. But if the answer to question 50 in the July GS is anything to go by consistency amongst bishops and across dioceses is going to increase, whatever the outcome of LLF.

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Stephen Griffiths
19 hours ago

Stephen, the Church of England is an episcopal model, but it should have space within it for diverse theological views, and diverse communities. Broad Church is hardly a new concept. Hence the time now for plural views and practice over sexuality. That does not preclude ‘consistency’ on various other issues, all within the catholic and episcopal tradition of the Church of England. If the Bishops decide to afford space to parishes and priests to accommodate their conscientious positions on sexuality, surely that can still be episcopal. An episcopal decision to allow two points of view within one Church. The Church… Read more »

Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
Reply to  Susannah Clark
1 day ago

There are myriad issues at stake. Authorised liturgy for a same-sex blessing (which I would not vote for, but some would see as a viable next step) would require a two-thirds majority. Commended liturgy would be easier to get through, but would raise more issues potentially for priests who could not in all conscience apply that. Absent of a change to canon law to allow solemnisation of same-sex marriages (equal marriage), I have suggested Parliament intervenes for some of the reasons you have suggested and threatens to remove the right of CofE clergy to act as registrars for opposite-gendered marriages… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Anthony Archer
23 hours ago

This suggestion probably commands support from both sides, as freeing each side to choose which sorts of legal union to bless.

Father Ron Smith
2 days ago

Sadly, despite the ABC’s sterling work in an effort to consolidate the Anglican ethos of ‘Unity in Diversity’ at the Lambeth Conference, the GSFA contingent have taken the opportunity – post conference – to make their own proclamation of what they boast of as being ‘Orthodox Anglicanism‘ (shown in the link below), as though the majority of the Communion provinces – in the Global West/North – are in some way ‘un-Orthodox’ in our struggle for the ‘Unity in Diversity’ which has always been our Tradition. In elevating an outdated hermeneutic of Scripture – over the balancing charisms of Tradition and… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
1 day ago

Has anyone else noticed that, while most Anglican Bishops were wrestling and praying together at Lambeth, the Archbishop of Nigeria was busy establishing his own ‘Orthodox Anglican’ Churches of Nigeria in the United States of America. Interestingly, these have no direct connection with either GSFA/ACNA/GAFCON or TEC, but seemingly a direct missionary outreach from Nigeria – which pretends to still be in communion (albeit imperfect) with Provincial Churches of the A.C.C. (As well as with GAFCON/ACNA) The timing seems rather odd, does it not, when the G.S. and GAFCON are trying to get their act together to present a united… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Father Ron Smith
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