Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 12 October 2022

Archbishop Cranmer Bishops in the House of Lords keep ‘pure religion’ in public life

LGBTQ Faith UK Ministry to the Heartstopper generation

Joshua Askwith ViaMedia.News Risking Reputations: The Process of Reconciliation and Belonging through the Lens of Ruth

Anonymous Surviving Church The Conservative Party at Prayer

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Homeless Anglican
Homeless Anglican
1 year ago

What a petulant and demeaning article from Anonymous at Surviving Church . How dare she/he compare the challenges of the church with the challenges of the world. You have no idea. You may not like HTB church plants or whatever you feel so threatened by, but the reality is that 1000s of families are starving right now, they are anxious. they have nothing. To use this argument as a legitimation of keeping clergy pillows more plumped up is nothing more than contemptuous.

Tim Chesterton
Reply to  Homeless Anglican
1 year ago

‘Anonymous’ says, ‘Most denominations outside the British Isles don’t do safeguarding or anything like this. Common sense with due regard to civil and criminal law suffices for everyone else.’

I can assure him that in the Anglican Church of Canada we definitely do safeguarding. For one thing, our insurance companies are requiring us to have strict policies. One difference, however, is that over here this is a matter of diocesan, not national, policy, as we are a far less centralized church than the C of E.

Last edited 1 year ago by Tim Chesterton
Pat ONeill
Pat ONeill
Reply to  Tim Chesterton
1 year ago

Same is true for the major denominations in the US.

Fr Dean
Fr Dean
1 year ago

Archbishop Cranmer doesn’t explain why English bishops are so well placed to represent the people of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland in Parliament.

peterpi - Peter Gross
peterpi - Peter Gross
Reply to  Fr Dean
1 year ago

Hear, hear. Or Jews or Muslims or what I’ve read is the majority of people in the UK: secular or agnostic. The “Nones” as they are called in the US (they check off “none of the above” in polls on religious affiliation), those pesky “spiritual but not religious” types. From what I’ve been reading in numerous articles on the Thinking Anglicans website, in too many places, the CofE barely takes care of the souls of its own rank-and-file. Like all institutions, its first reaction when grievous flaws are pointed out is to delay, deny, divert attention. Other parliamentary countries, to… Read more »

Rowland Wateridge
Rowland Wateridge
Reply to  peterpi - Peter Gross
1 year ago

All of the points you make, and Father Dean’s objections, have been fully dealt with on the previous TA thread in the context of Martyn Percy’s criticisms to which ‘Cranmer’ was responding. A pity that they were not listed together. That was posted only four days before this one, so it is not really reasonable to have to repeat everything said there. If you will kindly read what was written by Maud Colthwaite and myself, you will find most of your points answered. The House of Lords is an entirely different body to your US Senate. It’s not helpful to… Read more »

Theodore Pace
Theodore Pace
Reply to  peterpi - Peter Gross
1 year ago

Bishops don’t have constituents.

The House of Lords is not anything remotely like the US senate.

We are not America.

For which we are all mightily grateful.

peterpi - Peter Gross
peterpi - Peter Gross
Reply to  Theodore Pace
1 year ago

And many Americans might feel the same way in the opposite direction. I seem to recall colonists winning a kerfuffle against George III, King and Defender of the Faith. Bishops don’t have constituents? I think not. No, they weren’t voted in by the public (but someone(s) supported their, um, candidacy for them to make the list passed on to the monarch). And I would like to think that the people of the diocese have some ability to make the bishop aware of their spiritual and physical needs. As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, I’m sure God works God’s… Read more »

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Fr Dean
1 year ago

Exactly Fr Dean.

Who can honestly, and with integrity, justify the presence of Bishops of one denomination, and more importantly and from only one of the four countries of the United Kingdom, in the House of Lords.

It is unarguably a historical anomaly.

The second chamber is a valuable institution but in need of reform, and in that reform Church of England bishops should be removed.

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
1 year ago

I am glad LGBTQ Faith UK posted about Heartstopper, which is probably one of the biggest recent cultural phenomena for the YA generation. It is in Netflix’s top ten shows in 54 countries, so it is a good indicator of what the YA generation worldwide are thinking and valuing. If you have a Netflix account I recommend you watch it. It is a heart warming, funny and moving romance narrative, with some profound lessons around ethical behaviour written into the story. If you don’t have a Netflix account here is a 30 minute summary of the main story on youtube.… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Simon Dawson
1 year ago

Heartstopper is a primer on what behaviour and values the YA generation affirm

That is certainly not the case. It is a primer on what a large media company thinks will generate profit for itself by selling adverts to young adults. Secondarily, no doubt, it represents what its scriptwriters think young adult viewers think they ought to think.

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
1 year ago

Unreliable narrator. Whenever you and I have a conversation on TA it tends to be about providing evidence to back up one’s assertions. So in that spirit, I will say that Heartstopper has one scriptwriter and showrunner, Alice Oseman, who was contracted by Netflix on the basis of a previous series of graphic novels with the same title and story, and before that a web based comic series. This is episode 1 of the webcomic, launched in late 2016. https://tapas.io/episode/444220 Each page of the web-story tends to get about half a million page views, about 30,000 likes and 600 comments.… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Simon Dawson
1 year ago

None of this supports the claim that “it is a good indicator of what the YA generation worldwide are thinking and valuing” or that it “is a primer on what behaviour and values the YA generation affirm”. Netflix is a for-profit corporation, registered in the state of Delaware, making a gross profit of about $12billion a year by selling subscriptions and (soon) advertising. Its management is under a fiduciary duty to the stockholders to maximise those profits, and are liable to be sued if they do not. It has no duty to anyone to be an authority on what is… Read more »

Ann Reddecliffe
Ann Reddecliffe
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
1 year ago

‘It is a primer on what a large media company thinks will generate profit for itself by selling adverts to young adults. Secondarily, no doubt, it represents what its scriptwriters think young adult viewers think they ought to think.’ Sorry, unreliable narrator, I disagree. Heartstopper was books before it ever went to television. That fact that large numbers of young people bought and read the books, that they identify with the characters and their struggles means that this generation sees their experience as a genuine reflection of their lives. The fact remains that those in church schools are not as… Read more »

Unreliable Narrator
Unreliable Narrator
Reply to  Ann Reddecliffe
1 year ago

Netflix chose to adapt those books. I’m about as inclined to accept Heartstopper as an accurate account of the life of young adults as Twilight, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter.

Susannah Clark
Susannah Clark
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
1 year ago

I write young adult fiction. Being frank, populist YA fiction is not primarily deep philosophy. It’s entertainment… stories… written for a perceived market. Think Harry Potter or Hunger Games. And mainstream publishers and corporations will obviously analyse potential for profit. Authors will also analyse their market to get in the game. A typical YA literary agent may receive 100+ manuscript summaries a month. They are firstly thinking ‘Will it sell?’ As you would if you were selling meat. All that said, I do believe YA authors need connection with actual young adults. They need to get connection to the current… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Susannah Clark
peterpi - Peter Gross
peterpi - Peter Gross
Reply to  Unreliable Narrator
1 year ago

Heartstopper can be both: 1) A show that depicts GLBT people as three-dimensional characters and not just as positive or negative stereotypes, and the author’s vision of what GLBT YA folks can affirm, and 2) A show that the executives of Netflix took a chance on it finding a big enough audience to make a profit. The show’s creators and the people who produce it and act in it (I have no idea what a “showrunner” is) probably value 1) over 2), although the people involved want the show to make a profit, if only so that it continue to… Read more »

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
Reply to  peterpi - Peter Gross
1 year ago

Agreed, I did not respond to UN’s post because I agreed with him. Of course the publisher wants to make money, and of course Heartstopper is a work of fiction. Neither argument detracts from the argument I put forward about the way that huge numbers of YA people have responded positively to the story, and what lessons the church can take from that. Publishers have made huge amounts of money out of publishing many works of fiction, some of which have gone on to win Booker or Nobel prizes. Nobody puts forward the argument that because the publishers of such… Read more »

Pat ONeill
Pat ONeill
Reply to  peterpi - Peter Gross
1 year ago

FYI: The “showrunner” (often the head writer or producer) is the person designated to make creative decisions for the production, including sometimes hiring/firing decisions.

peterpi - Peter Gross
peterpi - Peter Gross
Reply to  Pat ONeill
1 year ago

Thanks!

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