The phrase that leapt out at me from Colin Coward’s posting was: “if I were still allowed to preach…” I am flabbergasted and very saddened – for the Church as well as for him – that he isn’t.
Indeed James H, and FrDavid. However, let’s also remeber the Church of England forbids any anglican priest married to a same sex partner to officiate in any way in England. So, for example, functioning clergy of Scotland or the US cannot preach, celebrate Communion, or even take Matins in England if they are married to a person of the same sex. Such clergy, in a sense, are then ‘out of Communion’ with the Church of England.
BUT apart from despairing here about this unjust situation what do people do?
Dave, you are making an assumption that I don’t have a licence or PTO because I married my partner. That is not true. Let me put the truth on record. Twenty-five years ago in the diocese of Southwark I had a PTO from Bishop Tom Butler who had been sent to Southwark with, as part of his brief, a requirement that he “clean up” the number of actively, openly gay clergy in the diocese. My PTO needed to be renewed. I was an activist, having founded Changing Attitude by then. I was called for an interview with Bishop Tom. The… Read more »
Nor can I (straight as I am) officiate at my daughter’s wedding in Edinburgh without finding myself subject to serious disciplinary action against me. My daughter is marrying her female partner so I guess that was always going to be the case. But it saddens me (and my daughter) that I will simply be present as father of the bride whilst a secular celebrant (albeit with strong Christian sympathies) officiates. The Episcopal Church would of course been an option (though I’d still face the disciplinary) but as you can imagine my daughter and her partner do not feel too wild… Read more »
Bob, this is a difficult question to answer because many denominations are highly decentralised. Individual congregations are often enabled to decide for themselves their attitude to same-sex marriage. Congregations may have a local practice which differs from national teaching. In my own area of rural Wiltshire, then as an openly married Church of England Licensed Lay Minister I have been invited to preach and lead worship in local Baptist, Methodist, and United Reformed Church services, most commonly to fill gaps during their vacancies. For the Baptist Church my husband David and I ran a series of services where we would… Read more »
Thanks Bob, one thing should have said is that whilst there may be a difference in detail between how ordained and lay ministers are treated, I think the huge variability in practise is common to both.
This answer to Bob concerns the rules applied in or by other denominations, which is probably what Bob meant. But there is another potential side to this. Does the Church of England allow Rev Coward to preach in other denominations?
Maybe he doesn’t need permission from the C of E although as a priest maybe he does. In any case I don’t see what they could do about it. But would he be breaking C of E rules by preaching in other denominations or street corners?
Many decades ago, there was a habit of college Christian unions leading services at nearby village churches. I was once volunteered to preach the sermon. it was, I think, a small Methodist church. No problem. At Manchester, at the student interdenominational church on campus, I once gave the sermon at the main Sunday service. No problem. I was, of course, nowhere near being ordained or having any authority. I cringe looking back at the naive nonsense i spoke on both occasions, but it all helps in future careers. At what point does giving the main talk at the main Sunday… Read more »
I think my second sermon included the topic ‘Love God and do what you want (Augustine)’ but may have strayed a bit into Nietzsche and Beyond Good and Evil. My first was more standard conservative evangelicalism. A life between them. Still journeying. My third will start with the Grand Inquisitor. Or maybe Job. Or both.
How on earth does anybody preach meaningfully every week?
When one has a conviction of being addressed, (with some imperfect but real degree of assurance) by the divine, in the also human words that one is hearing.
To illustrate – this never happens (at least to date)when I hear or read anything composed by Keir Starmer. This sometimes happens when I hear or read something composed by Rowan Williams.
Yes. But if we use this method to define what ‘preaching’ is, as opposed to ‘giving a talk’ (the subject of this thread), a message may be a sermon to one person and a mere talk to another. It would be subjective in each case. And maybe that’s OK?
Well, I’d venture God IS undoubtably speaking whenever authentic kerygma or evangelion are uttered.
If that happens in something billed as a sermon then it IS preaching – objectively – because God knows that his proclamation and good news were imparted.
If kerygma/evangelion are not heard as divine address by a given individual (who perhaps refuses or is unable to attend to divine address, or indeed has his/her ears closed by God for some mysterious providential purpose), the discourse may sound like talk rather than preaching, but that subjective experience doesn’t affect the objective fact.
But what I hear from Keir Starmer is a person deeply rooted in the decencies derived from the judeo christian traditions who speaks (albeit without what my wife refers to as ‘umph’)in a secular environment. Addressed by the divine?
Well, probably not but to use it as an example of not being addressed by the divine is in my view to underestimate the man. As for Rowan Williams. Couldn’t agree more.
I find Starmer to be deeply rooted in the worst deficiencies of culturally Jewish and Christian traditions – dissembling, being all things to all people without sincerity, and without any firm beliefs or convictions.
Good question. I grew up used to hearing women giving ‘talks’ on Sunday mornings, usually about missions. When men gave similar ‘talks’, they were called ‘sermons’. The same applied to Christian Union meetings, where on the rare occasions a woman spoke it was never called preaching.
The same dubious distinction seems to be used, or so I am told, between the clergy plus LLMs and normal lay folk.
My personal definition is all about whether an honest attempt to exegete and apply a passage of scripture has been made, but there we go…
But many sermons have neither. Doesn’t mean that nothing worthwhile is said. I would distinguish whether the sermon is vapid ‘let’s all be nice to each other’, or is challenging and has some grit/salt. Some relationship to scripture would be nice. Often the problem seems to be knowing the audience. At a morning family service, who is being addressed/taught? Which preachers are taken to be good examples? Lloyd-Jones? At least he had something to say, even if you disagreed with some of it. Indeed, there is much in Jesus’ own teaching which makes one wonder what on earth He was… Read more »
Top of my head, what He had to say about leaving parents, what He said about accounting practices (write off all your master’s debts). I don’t know if it is true, but somebody once said He talked more about hell than heaven. I would regard telling parables as preaching. But how we define ‘preaching’ is maybe not the most important thing. We can ‘preach’ by actions as well as words. Just found this: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824479587/heaven-and-hell-are-not-what-jesus-preached-religion-scholar-says It reinforces the point that the bible must be approached ‘thinking’. Once had an alcoholic tell me that Jesus wanted children to suffer because the bible… Read more »
In the Jewish culture of Jesus’ day, exaggeration was often used to make a point – just as Americans do. Traditionally we Brits have used understatement to make a point (it ain’t half hot, mum), which has led to some misunderstandings of Jesus’s teaching. He didn’t mean we should literally tear out our eyes if they cause us to lust after someone, for instance. But he did call the Twelve, among others, to leave their parents and homes and follow him. It’s about priorities – following Jesus must come before anything else. We have a duty to parents, but if… Read more »
There was not a ‘Jewish culture’ in Our Lord’s time. I doubt he ever ate bagels, pastrami or chicken soup.
When he said that not one jot or tittle of the law should be altered or removed, one might presume that he was including the fifth (fourth) commandment of the Decalogue in his conception of the law.
I said the Jewish culture of Jesus’ time, not the Jewish culture of 20th and 21st C America. I might also have said the culture of Israel during the Roman occupation, but it comes to the same thing. Surely you aren’t claiming there was no culture in Jesus’ time? How do you square ‘Honour your father and your mother’ with Jesus’ refusal to abandon his work when his mother asked him to; his calling of disciples away from their father’s business; and his recommendation, to a man who said he would follow after he had buries his father, to ‘let… Read more »
I was writing a piece a few weeks ago in which I alluded to the pastoral wisdom of Brother Cadfael. His wisdom comes out in the TV shows, but it goes a lot deeper in the books, in my opinion. Thanks to Mark Clavier for a very enjoyable piece.
I’ve learned a lot from the Brother Cadfael books in terms of spirituality and pastoral wisdom. But the TV series was not a patch on the books, and Derek Jacobi lacks the robustness and faith in God’s intervention which Cadfael has in the books. They can also be read as models of literary style.
But why on earth not set them as pastoralia textbooks? It’s a shame Mark Clavier didn’t feel able to do that. I’m sure the students would have got more out of them than many more serious books, as Clavier suggests.
And me. There was an elderly scholar at Wycliffe Hall – I can’t remember his name – who used to say that theological education was incomplete without copious reading of fiction and drama. There’s a whole education in Lord of the Rings alone.
Back in the day my spiritual director/confessor came around the corner just as I was about to go into SPCK with a book token burning a hole in my pocket. Blocking the doorway with his arm, he said, “No, no, no, Fr! Go into WH Smiths and spend it on a good novel, it’ll be far better for you and for those who have to listen to you.”
Well said, Janet. And more … Clergy chapters could, say, choose a novel once a year to discuss at a meeting. That would be more interesting than some of the chapter meetings I’ve attended.
A priest friend who died recently loved novels about clergy, and I’ve acquired many of those books. I’m looking forward to reading some. I think a judicious choice of some would be excellent reading for ordinands and the newly ordained, not least for those on none residential courses.
And not just Christian writers, either. I’m pretty sure the novels of Chaim Potok have had a huge impact on my spirituality, my practice of prayer, and my sense of how you live out a faith tradition in a world that is largely indifferent to it.
The late, great Sir Terry Pratchett has a lot to teach Christians about humanity and compassion, and not a little about sin: “And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.” Though I would extend “people” to also include the persons of the Trinity, which obviously Terry would not.
Kate Keates
19 days ago
A very high standard of writing from Michelle Burns
Fr Dean
19 days ago
Well there you have it; bishop’s staff meetings are more concerned with tidbits of gossip about who is sleeping with whom than the business of safeguarding. I’m not in the least surprised that it is the case, just that someone has had the temerity to go public. I recently shared with a police officer that the CofE was the gossipiest organisation I’d ever worked for and she was surprised by that statement. As an out gay man I think most of the senior clergy that I came across assumed that because I was open about my sexuality that necessarily it… Read more »
When I was involved in vocations work, Janet, the phrase was ‘confidential to the process’ which, when I pushed back about it, turned out to mean everyone from the Bishop, to the Senior Staff, the relevant Area Dean for the sending parish, the Incumbent, every placement supervisor, training institution, diocesan registry, diocesan HR, and the Ministry Division staff in London. I may well have missed some out as memory fades over so many years…even ones that appalled me at the time!
From speaking to people involved in discernment across denominations its a not just the church of england who are interested in in relationship status’s of its clergy. Its about perceptions i.e if the minister or vicar is preaching about for example commitment and they are seen to be not in a committed relationship. (this could be a bad example) why should the congregation listen to them if they are not modelling the behaviour they are discussing
I remember vividly being asked by a theological college to be an external interviewer on the panel charged with making a key appointment. The candidates were to give a mock teaching session to an assembled group of staff and students, and a recently appointed suffragan Bishop from the Diocese in which the college was located arrived to take his place on the interview panel. Said person is now a Diocesan. In front of all of us (except the candidates), some of whom he did not know, he proceeded to greet the students (female and male) from his Diocese with the… Read more »
All this is wryly amusing but also enormously demoralising for the person in the pew( less and less often ) following on after the post before this one looking at the ever- running safeguarding sagas and burgeoning bureaucracy to land things on the few surviving parishioners left out there trying to raise parish share. So instead of sorting the injustices out , not only is the organisation conducting a continuous audit of everyone’s bedroom arrangements, but by the sound of it, gossiping about them all as diocesan soap- operas. And now- when other organisations do seem to safeguard more satisfactorily… Read more »
Rowland Wateridge
17 days ago
On the subject of ‘further reading’ can I suggest a non-fiction book “Barchester: English Cathedral Life in the Nineteenth Century”, written by Philip Barrett and published by SPCK Publishing in 1993. Philip Barrett, whom I knew, was latterly vicar of a small church near Winchester and a former Precentor of Hereford Cathedral with much ‘inside knowledge’ (he also undertook the temporary role of Acting Precentor during an interregnum at Winchester). Giving them credit, Google provided the following useful summary: “While Anthony Trollope famously created the fictional county of Barsetshire and its central city of Barchester, Philip Barrett borrows Trollope’s iconic “Barchester”… Read more »
I’d recommend MR James’ ‘The Stalls of Barchester Catbedral’, a great ghost story set in the Cathedral just before the arrival of Trollope’s characters. It is also a reflection on the Katechon figure of 2 Thess
We are treading on dangerous waters, but some would say that he has had a real-life counterpart in recent times at ‘Barchester’. We won’t identify who or where that is.
Anglican Priest
15 days ago
Traveling in France and away from TA, I saw this essay from a British colleague.
Actually a fellow American citizen now. Does Dr Trueman think this is typical of Church of England Parishes? It reminds me of his ill informed First Things article on the Graffiti Exhibition at Canterbury Cathedral ( which he hadn’t seen). As a former Minister in the Free Church of Scotland ( now in the small and very conservative Orthodox Presbyterian Church), though he did grow up in Gloucestershire, he has his own take on things ecclesiastical.
True of course. Church historians are grateful for his contribution to Reformation Studies and Historical Theology. He seems lately to have moved to cultural analysis. Just a pity in his journalism he has an animus against the Church of England ( and Pope Francis) which I find puzzling.
The phrase that leapt out at me from Colin Coward’s posting was: “if I were still allowed to preach…” I am flabbergasted and very saddened – for the Church as well as for him – that he isn’t.
That struck me as well. It is a disgrace if he is banned from preaching the love of God in a church where hatred and prejudice is freely allowed.
Indeed James H, and FrDavid. However, let’s also remeber the Church of England forbids any anglican priest married to a same sex partner to officiate in any way in England. So, for example, functioning clergy of Scotland or the US cannot preach, celebrate Communion, or even take Matins in England if they are married to a person of the same sex. Such clergy, in a sense, are then ‘out of Communion’ with the Church of England.
BUT apart from despairing here about this unjust situation what do people do?
Dave, you are making an assumption that I don’t have a licence or PTO because I married my partner. That is not true. Let me put the truth on record. Twenty-five years ago in the diocese of Southwark I had a PTO from Bishop Tom Butler who had been sent to Southwark with, as part of his brief, a requirement that he “clean up” the number of actively, openly gay clergy in the diocese. My PTO needed to be renewed. I was an activist, having founded Changing Attitude by then. I was called for an interview with Bishop Tom. The… Read more »
Nor can I (straight as I am) officiate at my daughter’s wedding in Edinburgh without finding myself subject to serious disciplinary action against me. My daughter is marrying her female partner so I guess that was always going to be the case. But it saddens me (and my daughter) that I will simply be present as father of the bride whilst a secular celebrant (albeit with strong Christian sympathies) officiates. The Episcopal Church would of course been an option (though I’d still face the disciplinary) but as you can imagine my daughter and her partner do not feel too wild… Read more »
Could you please clarify something for me. Is it the case that Mr Coward would be allowed to preach in a denomination that accepted same sex marriage?
Bob, this is a difficult question to answer because many denominations are highly decentralised. Individual congregations are often enabled to decide for themselves their attitude to same-sex marriage. Congregations may have a local practice which differs from national teaching. In my own area of rural Wiltshire, then as an openly married Church of England Licensed Lay Minister I have been invited to preach and lead worship in local Baptist, Methodist, and United Reformed Church services, most commonly to fill gaps during their vacancies. For the Baptist Church my husband David and I ran a series of services where we would… Read more »
Thanks for your reply Simon. There do seem to be a lot of local arrangements.
Thanks Bob, one thing should have said is that whilst there may be a difference in detail between how ordained and lay ministers are treated, I think the huge variability in practise is common to both.
This answer to Bob concerns the rules applied in or by other denominations, which is probably what Bob meant. But there is another potential side to this. Does the Church of England allow Rev Coward to preach in other denominations?
Maybe he doesn’t need permission from the C of E although as a priest maybe he does. In any case I don’t see what they could do about it. But would he be breaking C of E rules by preaching in other denominations or street corners?
Many decades ago, there was a habit of college Christian unions leading services at nearby village churches. I was once volunteered to preach the sermon. it was, I think, a small Methodist church. No problem. At Manchester, at the student interdenominational church on campus, I once gave the sermon at the main Sunday service. No problem. I was, of course, nowhere near being ordained or having any authority. I cringe looking back at the naive nonsense i spoke on both occasions, but it all helps in future careers. At what point does giving the main talk at the main Sunday… Read more »
When God speaks!
I think my second sermon included the topic ‘Love God and do what you want (Augustine)’ but may have strayed a bit into Nietzsche and Beyond Good and Evil. My first was more standard conservative evangelicalism. A life between them. Still journeying. My third will start with the Grand Inquisitor. Or maybe Job. Or both.
How on earth does anybody preach meaningfully every week?
How do you know when God is speaking?
When one has a conviction of being addressed, (with some imperfect but real degree of assurance) by the divine, in the also human words that one is hearing.
To illustrate – this never happens (at least to date)when I hear or read anything composed by Keir Starmer. This sometimes happens when I hear or read something composed by Rowan Williams.
Yes. But if we use this method to define what ‘preaching’ is, as opposed to ‘giving a talk’ (the subject of this thread), a message may be a sermon to one person and a mere talk to another. It would be subjective in each case. And maybe that’s OK?
Well, I’d venture God IS undoubtably speaking whenever authentic kerygma or evangelion are uttered.
If that happens in something billed as a sermon then it IS preaching – objectively – because God knows that his proclamation and good news were imparted.
If kerygma/evangelion are not heard as divine address by a given individual (who perhaps refuses or is unable to attend to divine address, or indeed has his/her ears closed by God for some mysterious providential purpose), the discourse may sound like talk rather than preaching, but that subjective experience doesn’t affect the objective fact.
But what I hear from Keir Starmer is a person deeply rooted in the decencies derived from the judeo christian traditions who speaks (albeit without what my wife refers to as ‘umph’)in a secular environment. Addressed by the divine?
Well, probably not but to use it as an example of not being addressed by the divine is in my view to underestimate the man. As for Rowan Williams. Couldn’t agree more.
I find Starmer to be deeply rooted in the worst deficiencies of culturally Jewish and Christian traditions – dissembling, being all things to all people without sincerity, and without any firm beliefs or convictions.
“How do you know when God is speaking?” is the great theological question that too often we fail to ask.
You’re right. That’s why I asked it. After 72 years I’m still pondering the answer.
Good question. I grew up used to hearing women giving ‘talks’ on Sunday mornings, usually about missions. When men gave similar ‘talks’, they were called ‘sermons’. The same applied to Christian Union meetings, where on the rare occasions a woman spoke it was never called preaching.
The same dubious distinction seems to be used, or so I am told, between the clergy plus LLMs and normal lay folk.
My personal definition is all about whether an honest attempt to exegete and apply a passage of scripture has been made, but there we go…
Some people would call that ‘teaching’, and think only evangelistic sermons are ‘peaching’. I don’t see the point of making that distinction.
But many sermons have neither. Doesn’t mean that nothing worthwhile is said. I would distinguish whether the sermon is vapid ‘let’s all be nice to each other’, or is challenging and has some grit/salt. Some relationship to scripture would be nice. Often the problem seems to be knowing the audience. At a morning family service, who is being addressed/taught? Which preachers are taken to be good examples? Lloyd-Jones? At least he had something to say, even if you disagreed with some of it. Indeed, there is much in Jesus’ own teaching which makes one wonder what on earth He was… Read more »
Nigel, which of Jesus’ teachings do you have in mind?
Jesus often taught using parables – would we call that preaching?
Top of my head, what He had to say about leaving parents, what He said about accounting practices (write off all your master’s debts). I don’t know if it is true, but somebody once said He talked more about hell than heaven. I would regard telling parables as preaching. But how we define ‘preaching’ is maybe not the most important thing. We can ‘preach’ by actions as well as words. Just found this: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824479587/heaven-and-hell-are-not-what-jesus-preached-religion-scholar-says It reinforces the point that the bible must be approached ‘thinking’. Once had an alcoholic tell me that Jesus wanted children to suffer because the bible… Read more »
In the Jewish culture of Jesus’ day, exaggeration was often used to make a point – just as Americans do. Traditionally we Brits have used understatement to make a point (it ain’t half hot, mum), which has led to some misunderstandings of Jesus’s teaching. He didn’t mean we should literally tear out our eyes if they cause us to lust after someone, for instance. But he did call the Twelve, among others, to leave their parents and homes and follow him. It’s about priorities – following Jesus must come before anything else. We have a duty to parents, but if… Read more »
There was not a ‘Jewish culture’ in Our Lord’s time. I doubt he ever ate bagels, pastrami or chicken soup.
When he said that not one jot or tittle of the law should be altered or removed, one might presume that he was including the fifth (fourth) commandment of the Decalogue in his conception of the law.
I said the Jewish culture of Jesus’ time, not the Jewish culture of 20th and 21st C America. I might also have said the culture of Israel during the Roman occupation, but it comes to the same thing. Surely you aren’t claiming there was no culture in Jesus’ time? How do you square ‘Honour your father and your mother’ with Jesus’ refusal to abandon his work when his mother asked him to; his calling of disciples away from their father’s business; and his recommendation, to a man who said he would follow after he had buries his father, to ‘let… Read more »
I was writing a piece a few weeks ago in which I alluded to the pastoral wisdom of Brother Cadfael. His wisdom comes out in the TV shows, but it goes a lot deeper in the books, in my opinion. Thanks to Mark Clavier for a very enjoyable piece.
I’ve learned a lot from the Brother Cadfael books in terms of spirituality and pastoral wisdom. But the TV series was not a patch on the books, and Derek Jacobi lacks the robustness and faith in God’s intervention which Cadfael has in the books. They can also be read as models of literary style.
But why on earth not set them as pastoralia textbooks? It’s a shame Mark Clavier didn’t feel able to do that. I’m sure the students would have got more out of them than many more serious books, as Clavier suggests.
Janet, I’m sure there are many people like me who have been far more formed by reading fiction than formal theology.
And me. There was an elderly scholar at Wycliffe Hall – I can’t remember his name – who used to say that theological education was incomplete without copious reading of fiction and drama. There’s a whole education in Lord of the Rings alone.
Back in the day my spiritual director/confessor came around the corner just as I was about to go into SPCK with a book token burning a hole in my pocket. Blocking the doorway with his arm, he said, “No, no, no, Fr! Go into WH Smiths and spend it on a good novel, it’ll be far better for you and for those who have to listen to you.”
Well said, Janet. And more … Clergy chapters could, say, choose a novel once a year to discuss at a meeting. That would be more interesting than some of the chapter meetings I’ve attended.
A priest friend who died recently loved novels about clergy, and I’ve acquired many of those books. I’m looking forward to reading some. I think a judicious choice of some would be excellent reading for ordinands and the newly ordained, not least for those on none residential courses.
And not just Christian writers, either. I’m pretty sure the novels of Chaim Potok have had a huge impact on my spirituality, my practice of prayer, and my sense of how you live out a faith tradition in a world that is largely indifferent to it.
The late, great Sir Terry Pratchett has a lot to teach Christians about humanity and compassion, and not a little about sin: “And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.” Though I would extend “people” to also include the persons of the Trinity, which obviously Terry would not.
A very high standard of writing from Michelle Burns
Well there you have it; bishop’s staff meetings are more concerned with tidbits of gossip about who is sleeping with whom than the business of safeguarding. I’m not in the least surprised that it is the case, just that someone has had the temerity to go public. I recently shared with a police officer that the CofE was the gossipiest organisation I’d ever worked for and she was surprised by that statement. As an out gay man I think most of the senior clergy that I came across assumed that because I was open about my sexuality that necessarily it… Read more »
As an ordinand I was told that ‘confidential’ meant ‘confidential within the college’. Which of course meant ‘not confidential at all’.
That’s a new one on me! I’ve heard ‘Confidential in the CofE means only telling one person at a time’.
When I was involved in vocations work, Janet, the phrase was ‘confidential to the process’ which, when I pushed back about it, turned out to mean everyone from the Bishop, to the Senior Staff, the relevant Area Dean for the sending parish, the Incumbent, every placement supervisor, training institution, diocesan registry, diocesan HR, and the Ministry Division staff in London. I may well have missed some out as memory fades over so many years…even ones that appalled me at the time!
From speaking to people involved in discernment across denominations its a not just the church of england who are interested in in relationship status’s of its clergy. Its about perceptions i.e if the minister or vicar is preaching about for example commitment and they are seen to be not in a committed relationship. (this could be a bad example) why should the congregation listen to them if they are not modelling the behaviour they are discussing
I remember vividly being asked by a theological college to be an external interviewer on the panel charged with making a key appointment. The candidates were to give a mock teaching session to an assembled group of staff and students, and a recently appointed suffragan Bishop from the Diocese in which the college was located arrived to take his place on the interview panel. Said person is now a Diocesan. In front of all of us (except the candidates), some of whom he did not know, he proceeded to greet the students (female and male) from his Diocese with the… Read more »
All this is wryly amusing but also enormously demoralising for the person in the pew( less and less often ) following on after the post before this one looking at the ever- running safeguarding sagas and burgeoning bureaucracy to land things on the few surviving parishioners left out there trying to raise parish share. So instead of sorting the injustices out , not only is the organisation conducting a continuous audit of everyone’s bedroom arrangements, but by the sound of it, gossiping about them all as diocesan soap- operas. And now- when other organisations do seem to safeguard more satisfactorily… Read more »
On the subject of ‘further reading’ can I suggest a non-fiction book “Barchester: English Cathedral Life in the Nineteenth Century”, written by Philip Barrett and published by SPCK Publishing in 1993. Philip Barrett, whom I knew, was latterly vicar of a small church near Winchester and a former Precentor of Hereford Cathedral with much ‘inside knowledge’ (he also undertook the temporary role of Acting Precentor during an interregnum at Winchester). Giving them credit, Google provided the following useful summary: “While Anthony Trollope famously created the fictional county of Barsetshire and its central city of Barchester, Philip Barrett borrows Trollope’s iconic “Barchester”… Read more »
I’d recommend MR James’ ‘The Stalls of Barchester Catbedral’, a great ghost story set in the Cathedral just before the arrival of Trollope’s characters. It is also a reflection on the Katechon figure of 2 Thess
And then there’s Obadiah Slope …
We are treading on dangerous waters, but some would say that he has had a real-life counterpart in recent times at ‘Barchester’. We won’t identify who or where that is.
Traveling in France and away from TA, I saw this essay from a British colleague.
https://firstthings.com/what-is-the-church-of-england-for/
Actually a fellow American citizen now. Does Dr Trueman think this is typical of Church of England Parishes? It reminds me of his ill informed First Things article on the Graffiti Exhibition at Canterbury Cathedral ( which he hadn’t seen). As a former Minister in the Free Church of Scotland ( now in the small and very conservative Orthodox Presbyterian Church), though he did grow up in Gloucestershire, he has his own take on things ecclesiastical.
British by birth and culture. Successful author and theologian, over and above FT offerings.
True of course. Church historians are grateful for his contribution to Reformation Studies and Historical Theology. He seems lately to have moved to cultural analysis. Just a pity in his journalism he has an animus against the Church of England ( and Pope Francis) which I find puzzling.