David’s article confirms my conviction that the entire debate about LGBTQ relationships within the church is nothing to do with the validity of LGBTQ relationships within the church, but we LGBTQ people in the church have become the battleground over which various positions within evangelical Christianity fight their doctrinal battles. We are simply caught up in the crossfire, sacrificed so that non-LGBTQ Christians can maintain their doctrinal purity. Sadly, it never had to be this way. David’s article contains this text “The Church of England Evangelical Council (CEEC) was founded by John Stott in 1960 to represent and co-ordinate the… Read more »
Im not an expert on the history of CEEC but I think the reason for the change in constitution in 2014 was in response to pressures that weren’t there in 1960. Im not sure doctrinal purity is a fair comment. There will be a whole range of issues away from the arguments over same sex marriage, PLF and same sex clergy which require careful agreement theologically.
Certainly the latest PLF ‘doctrinal battleground’ was created, not by evangelicals, but the ABY who has since apologised for mismanaging the process and causing profound hurt to people on all sides of the church.
I am left wondering if you have read my article? It introduces a book by fellow evangelicals calling us all to some critical, theological and pastoral self reflection. When you turn up here saying it is not our fault and laying blaming on someone else for where we have got to, you are rather illustrating the problem.
I was responding to the post above. But certainly the ABY is to blame as he acknowledged at GS. If he had considered theology and doctrine at the start of the process rather than at the end he might avoided the abrupt U turn that shocked everyone, including myself, as I rather assumed he had got all his ducks in a row. But that was giving him too much credit as it turned out. But to answer your point haven’t a clue what Inclusive Evangelical’s theological or doctrinal position is on same sex marriage. I rather assumed this was taking… Read more »
For the record, the ABY did not start the process. And if, after the long and exhaustive LLF process, the endless debates here and elsewhere, you can really say you ‘haven’t a clue’ what theological or doctrinal convictions inclusive believers have been bringing to the table then I have to conclude you have not engaged or listened all. If so it is not clear on what basis claim to know about the ABY’s faith and beliefs either – or where and why the process has reached this point?
I would have thought that agreeing to disagree is a sign of maturity and tolerance, not desperation. For example, if members of a family agree to disagree, it is not an “act of desperation of a failing institution” but evidence of love being ranked higher than uniformity.
A declining organisation must bring its own stresses for those chosen to lead it. Lots of strategies have been tried and found wanting ranging from the ‘worth a try’ to the absurd. The bishops openly concede that there is a crisis in vocations and then set ridiculous targets such as 10,000 house groups. No wonder the clergy are left reeling. For those looking to be led rather than lead, the bishops are endlessly equivocal about sexuality; they flirt with the idea of full inclusion and then whisk it away again. The safeguarding scandals are shameful and the CofE has chosen… Read more »
Albanian
22 days ago
Is the Role of a Diocesan Bishop in England becoming too Stressful?
asks Stephen Parsons.
Well, maybe. But if so, who have been the principal architects of the cultural and church-organisational changes ,which have largely contributed to such unsustainable stress-levels?
The wider cultural changes have been caused by a wide variety of factors beyond the control of any individuals. All clergy are now ministering in a society which is more indifferent, if not hostile,to organised religion than was the case a few decades ago. This is particularly difficult for Anglican clergy. They are part of a church that was founded on the basis that the entire population would be members. It was supported by compulsory tithes and the church rate, so money raising was less of an issue. At their institution they are given the cure of souls of (in… Read more »
Bishop Chessun is no different from any other diocesan bishop in having presided over steady decline in engagement with the established Church. It must be dispiriting knowing that you’re leaving your diocese in a worse position than you found it.
Those doing any of the many genuinely high-stress jobs in UK would hoot with laughter at the idea of a CofE bishop’s job being classified as high stress. Any stress is largely self-generated by inability to delegate, time manage, or take decisions.
Given that bishops have no real fear of being sacked for failing to meet targets, & they have good pensions, they are in far better position than many in UK.
Could stress not be caused by a whole panoply of externally generated threats, constraints and traumas? To say that any stress is largely self generated seems a stretch to me.
One of the problems is that most clergy have not been exposed to the ordinary world of work, let alone had to manage people, large budgets etc. Until I retired I was a non-stipendiary and Head of a large university department. It was like running a small/medium business. That job was done whilst having to retain an international, academic profile. Stress – bishops don’t know the half of it.
I don’t disagree that lack of experience of work in the commercial world is a problem for some clergy but there are other stresses which those with responsible jobs in the world of work may not know, for example relying on volunteers rather than people you can tell what to do; being expected to model righteous behaviour; never being off duty; blurred boundaries around who is a colleague, a parishioner, a friend, a subordinate; lacking respect (as witnessed by some comments here); there aren’t many responsible jobs in the commercial world where random grannies tell you how you should be… Read more »
You’re right and i apologise to all grannies. My venting here is probably my letting off steam as a counterbalance to what is actually another stress of priestly ministry- the imperative not just to show respect to those people (of whatever age or gender) who think they know better how i should do my job but genuinely to respect them- which i think i do but it has a cost. In the commercial world you can go home after an argument and think “what a tosser” but you cannot do that if you are going to be giving them communion… Read more »
Sadly, I have found that however carefully and thoughtfully one posts a comment on TA, criticism and contradiction seem the invariable result. One might ask why we bother commenting, but we still do!
Martin Hughes
22 days ago
If lots of reading is called for lots of doubts will follow
Gregor
22 days ago
I often very much appreciate the viamedia articles – but I find the format dreadful for reading on mobile. Is there an easy solution I may have missed?
This may be browser specific; I’m using Chrome on an Android phone.
Click on the three dots at the top right of the screen and select “Show Reading mode”
That was my previous work-around too. I recommend giving Peter’s suggestion above a go, it’s an improvement IMO.
Allan Sheath
22 days ago
Nicholas Henshall feels that “the proliferation of Suffragan Bishoprics has over recent decades weakened the sense of the unity of the Diocese around its Diocesan Bishop,” while Stephen Parsons looks to a diocesan “who knows how to care for others, especially the clergy of the diocese” – before asking if “the task is too onerous and stressful to be accomplished successfully today?” The sheer size of a dozen or so of our dioceses make it all but impossible for their diocesan bishops to exercise their ministry as modelled at their consecration. Instead they are pushed toward a model more akin… Read more »
Smaller dioceses would mean duplication of central personnel and resources, and be more expensive. That’s the rationale behind the call for fewer and bigger dioceses – e.g. the merger, a few years ago, of Bradford, Wakefield, and Ripon and Leeds. Though the new diocese wound up with 3 cathedrals with their deans and staff. I don’t know how much – if any – money was saved by the merger, but someone here will.
Janet, as I argued on 9 March, if smaller dioceses are to work, not least financially, much of the admin would need to be done regionally. The Leeds solution with its 6 bishops seems to me to be rather more bureaucratic than ecclesiological, in so far as it is likely to weaken “the sense of the unity of the Diocese around its Diocesan Bishop” (Nicholas Henshall). Might it not have been sounder ecclesiologically to have kept the original 3 dioceses with their cathedras and centralised the admin? Maybe that is how it functions pastorally. It would be good to hear… Read more »
I think the issue is the number of diocesan bishops, suffragan bishops AND archdeacons ….and whether the C of E is top heavy given decline in parishes, clergy and laity. Certainly dioceses should try and share certain posts like Social Responsibility, Education etc where possible.
The CofE has a dozen or so dioceses which are too big for even the most conscientious diocesan to be received by their clergy as shepherd, chief pastor, father/mother in Christ – the relational metaphors in the Ordinal. Instead he/she is almost bound to become a distant figure, known chiefly through diocesan initiatives dropping into the parsonage inbox – initiatives which would be more likely to be acted on if the bishop’s ministry was truly relational. So not more bishops overall, but fewer suffragans and more dioceses and therefore diocesans. Without this, we’re left with little more than the pious… Read more »
Alastair, a small but telling example of how smaller and more relational dioceses are able to work. When I retired from stipendiary ministry, I sought Permission to Officiate in another diocese, which was given on the basis of references. Much later, on moving to a smaller diocese, Bristol, I was very surprised when the diocesan bishop, Viv Faull, called me in for an hour long interview – me, a 75 year-old PTO, a long way down the CofE food chain!
Most likely making sure that safeguarding issues are understood? The retired list has along with great talent and wisdom some cultural and relational sociological and anthropological issues regarding modern secular concepts of ethical behavior I have found. Especially in the far wings of churchmanship eg Con Evo and extreme High Church Catholic
That’s positive Allan. Also please understand that for those of us affected by dismal safeguarding and yet so want the institution to change, banging the drum is vital. We have a small cadre of retired Clerics who maintain denial and use theological arguments and inherent power and control to keep hidden knowledge of abuse. Its tragic for survivors and families to face this wall of silence. Please understand that my comments do not include the magnificent contribution of the vast majority of retired Clerics , but those who maintain silence ,when their knowledge of historical crimes is hidden, create huge… Read more »
An advantage of having a larger diocese and thus higher number of bishops is that they are better able to represent a more diverse range of traditions. A positive way forward for a divided church maybe?
Or people could just accept that their bishop is their bishop rather than demanding one that agrees with them about whatever they decided is a “first order issue” today. “Pick a bishop off the menu” is not a positive way forward.
I think it recognises where we are. London seems to manage its divisions quite well with its 5 bishops and is a growing. I would quite like one who manages to talk about Jesus at Easter. But maybe I am bit too traditional.
That didn’t seem to be the case in the appointment of the bishop of Sheffield. The chosen person (Philip North) was considered unacceptable by one particular group who wouldn’t just accept that he was their bishop.
In that case the appointed candidate wouldn’t just accept that a sizeable proportion of the clergy in the diocese were actually priests. It works both ways.
This is precisely what the RC Church in Ireland has done with neighbouring dioceses as one has become vacant. True, a factor is declining clergy numbers; but it also exemplifies how to share resources more imaginatively and achieve manageable economies of scale. Can it work on a larger scale in England? It will be interesting to see how the Leeds/Middlesborough plans go.
Good to hear from you, Simon. I’ve just re-read Justin Pottinger’s The Bishop and the Baptized. Technical books are pricey – a shame for this one demands to be widely read. It points towards a Church in which bishops would know all their clergy by name, presbyterates would be small enough to gather in one place, suffragans and archdeacons would be fewer in number, and area bishops would shift to diocesans.
JF this needn’t be the case since personnel, finance, property etc resources can be centralised (shared) across many dioceses. However of over riding concern is why CofE has so many bishops while membership has declined. Other denominations now have leaner models!
a diocesan bishop has a staff team to support them ( of clerics and lay people) so surely a bishop could have knowledge of all the points Stephen makes, but the wider staff team make up the deeper knowledge the bishop doesnt have
I did under our last Diocesan, Janet. There were some who didn’t, but that was more to do with the timing as it was right in the middle of some of the worst nastiness over women Bishops. The Bishop was male, but he was unapologetically a supporter, and some of those opposed were unwilling to be collegial with any of us who were supporters. Under the current Bishop what unity there was has been completely shattered – the only collegiality is that peddled as hot air from the Bishop’s leadership team who keep insisting what is absent is present at… Read more »
It’s good to hear of positive experiences. I have wondered whether the absence of them that I’ve had was due to being an ordained woman through the years when battles were being fought over women’s ordination. We were at the centre of the ‘problem’ and bishops don’t like problems.
However, I did experience a sense of unity in an archdeaconry around a suffragan bishop. He was pastoral, and met annually with the ordained women.
Janet, that’s my point. I suspect +Archangel Gabriel would struggle to foster a sense of unity in a diocese numbering clergy in the hundreds. And to answer your question, I have – at times. I’m sorry to hear of your experience.
Yes I think I felt that on Maundy Thursday in Birmingham Cathedral this year. We have a new bishop who has been well received by all parties and is well liked. And, to be honest, referring back to Stephen Parsons’ article, a lot of us are full of admiration for him for taking on this see!
Corrosive complacency? ‘Nurse, I have just lost an arm and leg and I am about to lose the other arm and leg.’ Nurse – ‘I can’t imagine how that happened, why don’t you sit down and tell me all about it’.
Hello Janet. Happy Easter. I don’t know if this would make this thread better or worse, but I think my fellow parishioners regard the bishops (all of them) as largely irrelevant. And I know that this may sound cruel, but when I was first elected churchwarden, I rather piously decided that I would deliberately travel to hear the relevant suffragan bishop preach each year, in order that I would know the bishop’s mind on the key spiritual questions of the day. Now approaching the end of my term, I explained this annual pilgrimage in passing to a friend retired with… Read more »
Parish vs Diocese? The classic tension in the CofE, as both have claims to be the local church – with the Parish getting by far the most votes among the faithful. Yet in Anglican polity the Diocese is the local church in its fullness, presided over by the Bishop; while, in the parishes, bishops share the cure of souls with the priests who exercise ministry on their behalf. That bishops are regarded as ‘largely irrelevant’ by your fellow parishioners is tragic but entirely understandable, given that bishops are often experienced as remote figures – overseers, good for the occasional confirmation.… Read more »
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. At whose response might I be surprised? The parishioners politely expressed no enthusiasm when I have mooted the idea of episcopal visits and there has been no uptick in attendance numbers when senior clergy have appeared, but I agree that we could give it another go. If I can be candid on an anonymised forum like this, the problem is that they have tended to be adequate, but not good, preachers and as their purpose is principally ‘mystical’ in theory, they don’t really add much in practice to a Sunday service other than the mystical… Read more »
Our suffragan preached this year at our Holy Week services up to and including Good Friday (the second hour with 3 homilies); a good example of episcopal teaching ministry. His sermons were thoughtful, challenging and very well received. As a former diocesan lay chair, I have been involved in the process of appointing one diocesan and several suffragans. They all have been chosen (I hope with the influence of the Holy Spirit) for the qualities that the diocese deems necessary. My gripe with diocesans is that when they get up the list and become members of the House of Lords,… Read more »
Good to hear. I think it’s a loss both to our bishops and to our parishes that bishops don’t get more invitations from the coal face. They’re not just confirming machines!
Bishops in the Lords. I think they can become like second-term prime ministers – drawn by the lure of a foreign adventure.
An overseas perspective: In our province of Alberta we have three Anglican dioceses: Athabasca, Edmonton, and Calgary. According to their websites, the numbers are as follows: Athabasca: 22 parishes, Edmonton: 46 parishes, Calgary: 67 parishes. Each of these dioceses has its own diocesan bishop. There are no suffragan bishops. The total land mass of the province of Alberta is 255,541 square miles. My diocese of Edmonton covers a fairly narrow central strip; to drive from the northernmost to the southernmost community in the centre (Westlock to Wetaskiwin) would take 1 hour 45 minutes, but to drive it east to west… Read more »
Charles Razzall
19 days ago
There must be stress around . At present Lincoln is on police bail, Salisbury has “ stepped back “while Wilts police investigate , Derby is off work , and Newcastle doesn’t appear to want York in her diocese … and that’s just the non-vacant sees
I also think there is, Charles, but I disagree on those examples necessarily indicating its presence as a causative factor. In general terms, without intending to prejudge outcomes in the cases under investigation, there can be a multiplicity of reasons for poor choices – or indeed good ones, in the case of +Newcastle! I have no doubt, though, that each of the situations you point to have resulted in increased stress, for the Bishops concerned, for any who may have been wronged, and for plenty of others.
I’m not up to speed about Lincoln and hesitated to comment on Salisbury. The bishop “stepping back” shouldn’t be read as there being grounds for some possible ‘irregularity’ on the part of the bishop personally. That appears to have been assumed in some comments I have read (I stress, of course, that yours does not carry any such implication); the word ‘fraud’ has also been used, it seems rather loosely, without specific source identification or who it relates to.
Martin Hughes
19 days ago
As to inclusivity and the Bible, I think that the most important discussion of spiritual vs physical intimacy is John’s portrayals of Mary of Bethany and the Beloved Disciple. The question of spiritual (vs ‘pandemic’ love) was known at that time as a theme of Plato’s Symposium
Martin, whilst I love John’s portrayal of Jesus’ relationship with both, I am puzzled by your apparent opposition of spiritual versus physical intimacy. Cannot a physically intimate relationship be spiritual? Could you kindly expand.
I acknowledge that the Symposium can be read as a staged journey, physical leading to spiritual, but even that risks portraying the physical as something always lesser, which I think is a sad loss.
Surely it’s the quality of the relationship that counts – empathic and caring versus hierarchical and transactional – rather than the acts involved.
I did mean ‘pandemic’ love. Plato begins, through an early speaker in tne dialogue, with distinguishing Aphrodite Urania, the goddess who presides from heaven, from Aphrodite Pandemos, her earthly other self who walks ‘all over the city’ involving herself in the sexual attractions that come to everyone. A later speaker, Aristophanes, develops both the theme of our being drawn by nature to a sexual partner in earthly life and the theme of friendship and comradeship as a form of love that can draw us heavenward. Aristophanes introduces the ideas of ‘laying down life for one’s friends’ and of being a… Read more »
Thank you Martin, that is exactly the clarification I was hoping for. The Symposium has been an inspirational text for many homosexual people for centuries, because we see in it a distinction between two ways of being that matches our own perception of the world. Karl Ulrichs, probably the first major gay campaigner, developed the name “uranian” for homosexual people from this very text. Harry Hay developed his idea of “subject-subject” consciousness. Writing in the patriarchal 1950s (before feminism and the new man) he argued that heterosexual men had a subject-object type of relationship – men and women are different,… Read more »
Just to correct myself – the idea of laying down one’s life is the main theme of the first speech of the Symposium, that of Phaedrus, perhaps the most conventional in tone, and appears only rather obliquely in Aristophanes, who dwells on the half-suppressed desire of lovers not to die apart.
The participants differ on whether women are capable of the highest forms of love and in their view of men who pursue teenage boys
Martin, thanks for your comments. The Symposium is endlessly rich. You find a link to the beloved disciple, others to Genesis 2.
I think I can seen how you make a link between the beloved disciple and the Symposium, but where does Martha of Bethany fit into you framework? Please excuse me if I am being dense.
You’re no less lucid than I am, I’m sure! Martha seems to be very much reconfigured from the fussy housewife in Luke, she’s now a thoughtful and dignified heroine of faith – the Christian Diotima?? The Mary part of the story does surely show Jesus’ acceptance of a kind of spiritual love from women that takes erotic forms, even if they verge on impropriety. I am not actually sure whether we should say he accepts it or only that he excuses it because of the uniqueness of the situation. Being related to a unique situation it is not the Unum… Read more »
Martin, That is helpful, thank you. I think we are very close to each other in our understandings of the link between John and the Symposium, but we use a different lenses. A traditional Christian take on this draws a distinction between physical and non-physical relationships, with one being impropriety and the other spiritual. But much of the gay scholarship I explore draws a different distinction. It’s the quality of the relationship that counts, whether it is possessive, hierarchical and transactional, or whether it is a union and meeting of radical empathy, what Harry Hay called “seeing the other whole”.… Read more »
Are not bishops in the CofE required to visit every parish in their dioceses on a regular schedule? According to the constitution and canons of the Episcopal Church, diocesan bishops are required to visit every congregation within their diocese at least once every three years. These visits are official, known as episcopal visitations, and focus on overseeing the spiritual and temporal health of the parish. Bishops use these occasions for services of Confirmation and the Renewal of parishioners’ Baptismal Vows. Parish churches often have special chairs, used only by the bishop during worship on the occasion of the bishop’s visit.
I will leave to others to respond about the bishop’s visitation responsibilities. Yes, confirmations take place in parish churches, sometimes in cathedrals, and many parish churches have a bishop’s chair, usually positioned in the sanctuary and often on the north side (unlike cathedrals where the bishop’s throne is customarily on the south side). But there are serious logistical difficulties due to the sheer number of parishes and churches in English dioceses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Church_of_England_dioceses Scroll down to ‘Statistics’ for the relative numbers of churches in each diocese. At the top end several are in excess of 600: Oxford has 811. Even with… Read more »
Somehow I anticipated that there might be a response from Canada! The subject has been well aired on TA and there has been recent counter-argument by some for smaller dioceses and more bishops. The figures in themselves are interesting and revealing: compare, for example, the respective sizes and resources of London and Carlisle.
If my memory of a past post from you is correct, Tim, a useful comparison might be made not with the ratio of Bishops to Priests, but with the ratio of Bishops to their Diocesan support staff, in the UK and Canada.
Maybe we have too many bishops of the wrong kind doing the wrong things in the company of the wrong people?
I mean managerial, bureaucratic bishops spending too much time and energy engaging with other bishops, archdeacons, diocesan staff etc etc.
If we had the same number of bishops, more humbly housed and stipended, overseeing much smaller dioceses, with much much smaller central establishments, perhaps a better balance of parochial presence and pastoral attention could be possible?
So s/he could get round approximately once every 12 years if s/he had a fortnight’s annual
holiday ? Or once every 6 years if shared with one suffragan?
It depends on what is seen to be the priority doesn’t it?
Most bishops no longer require ‘the bishop’s chair’ when visiting parishes. This may be so as not to appear monarchical, but it also aligns with the principles of the liturgical movement in which the presider’s chair is integral to every Eucharist – a principle clouded by a separate bishop’s chair. As Robert Hovda has it: “The presider must be present to the assembly as a warm body – that’s why the chair is important even when the presider is not actively leading.” When I led a workshop for deacons on liturgical presidency, I’d ask them to point out the four… Read more »
Most bishops do what the church they are visiting expects. Here the diocesan sits on a chair on the north side of the chancel facing south, but any other bishop sits on a faldstool in front of the altar facing the congregation.
Well, my experience has been different. It’s a long time ago but at my confirmation by Bishop Henry Montgomery Campbell (see Wikipedia) his cope was draped over the altar and his mitre placed centrally upon it – all removed, of course, for the Eucharist. Not only was there a bishop’s chair in the sanctuary, as I described, but it bore the arms of the Diocese of Guildford. The last time I saw a bishop occupying the episcopal throne was a late night service of Compline by candlelight in Winchester Cathedral. Bishop John Vernon Taylor was wearing just a plain cassock,… Read more »
I’m providing a link (see below) to a video, made in the 1980’s, by Charles Fulton. then the head of the Episcopal Church Building Fund. He says here that the 4 main foci of the liturgy are the font, the lectern/pulpit, the altar, and the assembled people of God. No mention is made of a chair.
The video insists on starting about 5 minutes into the video, so please slide the little red ball at the bottom of the page to the left, so the video starts for you at the beginning.
John, thank you for this. I loved Charles Fulton’s description of St Mark’s as ‘honest’, but no mention of the presider’s chair, perhaps because it was lost in the midst of a long line of chairs. Both there and at Christ Church I feel it would have been better if three solid chairs – deacon, presider, sub-deacon – had been brought forward to the south side and set at an angle oriented more towards the people than to the altar. When my last parish did this, it brought an end to instructions to sit and to stand, and allowed the… Read more »
If one does take Oxford as the example there are in fact only a shade over 600 parishes, and the diocese has a diocesan and three fully-fledged suffragans. If each bishop visits a parish each week then they’ll conveniently get round the lot in three years. (Of course things are more complex than this, but a visit each three years is not too much to expect. It’s a matter of priorities.)
It would certainly be easier to do if churches accepted that being visited mid-week counted. I suspect the CofE is like other churches, and is much more likely to see people on Sundays than at mid-week events…
Thank you for that clarification. It’s also a reminder of what a small denomination the Episcopal Church really is, and how many denominations there are in the USA (over 200). As the saying goes, whenever two or three Christians in the USA are gathered together, they fall into disagreement and separate to create three new denominations.
Thank you. My own limited experience of TEC has been entirely of happy memories and kind people. At my first service in ‘small town’ America, in rural Pennsylvania 30 miles from the nearest large town, the opening hymn was one written by a former Dean of Winchester (now for 50+ years my home diocese), and the gradual was one of the beautiful hymns of John Keble, vicar of the parish where I now live in a house he is known to have visited: all this some 3,500 miles from home. The TEC clergy and congregation were kindness itself. That, if… Read more »
Nigel Ashworth
17 days ago
Is the Role of a Diocesan Bishop in England becoming too Stressful? Living one’s life and doing one’s work all the time under the scrutiny of a public role and at the same time having to function within a gigantic organisational superstructure is never going to be easy. Add to that the collapse in trust for public figures and their institutions along with any number of brickbats and we easily find a turgid recipe for bad mental health assailing bishops (and clergy in general). A while ago it was realised that the majority of clergy tend to introversion, whereas most… Read more »
I suspect that most bishops find parish visiting an enjoyable part of the job. At the church where I grew up there was a debate about whether the best china should be brought out for the suffragan or reserved for the Diocesan. I would imagine the stress comes from: 1. Finances – how many clergy can we afford? 2. Deployment – where do we put the clergy (and dealing with parishes used to having their own incumbent and/ or curate when they are told they will be sharing in future)? 3. Safeguarding 4. Complaints ranging from the trivial which the… Read more »
We were told in the St Albans diocese to have the evening off before our day off; once a month have two consecutive days off; to take six weeks holiday; to take days off in lieu of bank holidays we’d worked; a week’s retreat each year and to take time off for our cell group. This seemed to me to be wise advice from the bishop and I found that it was sufficient to cope with the demands of ministry. Clergy do have to take some responsibility for their own health and wellbeing.
My last post got sent accidentally before I had finished it. It would be very nice to have six weeks holiday, but can nowadays be very hard for parish clergy to find Sunday cover when in dioceses like ours there are so many parishes in interregnum absorbing all the PTOs.
Why is it the priest’s job to find cover for their holiday? Other denominations make pulpit supply a lay responsibility. Can’t the churchwardens be a first point of contact in the absence of clergy?
Whose responsibility it is makes no difference to the main problem which is lack of availability of clergy to provide cover. This is exacerbated by the fact even the available clergy are not all well adapted to manage the sort of Sunday service we have. Unless they have been to Westcott, Staggers or Mirfield, recently ordained clergy will have received not even the most rudimentary instruction in how to conduct a liturgical service. I should say that up to 50% of clergy in this diocese have never worn mass vestments.
Church wardens can lead morning and evening prayer if needs be. The labourer is worthy of his or her hire; getting enough rest is part of that contract. With the collapse in vocations clergy will have to signpost where there is a celebration of the Eucharist elsewhere if cover is not available. A cleric is not an unlimited resource.
Develop good relationships with local ptos, book them in early. Acclimate your parish to welcome regular noneucharistic worship at the main service, and employ and train readers and lay worship leaders to provide. Won’t work everywhere, and requires effort, but can be done.
When I worked in northern Alberta retired clergy were few and far between, since we were far from major cities and most clergy wanted to retire to cities. The Lay Readers went into action when I was on holiday. Most years we were lucky to get one week covered by a clergyperson during my holidays. The rest was covered by our local lay readers. Since I moved to Edmonton it was a little less difficult, but still at my past parish (where I served 24 years), if I was off for six weeks of the year (5 weeks holiday and… Read more »
I’ve never been able to holiday away from the parsonage for 6 weeks a year, nor wanted to, TBH. In one parish no problem having time off at home as the house hidden away and I worked from an office elsewhere. In the other more problematic – house next door to church. But with a straightforward notice about being on leave on the door right next to the doorbell, and a clear message on the answerphone, it’s bearable.
That worked in some of the clergy houses I lived in. But in two of the vicarages, people were used to turning up at the vicarage at any time of the day or evening and refused to be put off. And the vandalism doesn’t stop just because the vicar is having a break.
An archdeacon commented to me that in poorer areas there are a lot more interruptions to life in the vicarage. In middle class/suburban areas, people art more inclined to leave the vicar alone.
For the second half of my ministry I was fortunate in that the Diocese of Edmonton had no rectories; we provided our own housing and there was no need to ‘go away’ if we couldn’t afford it at any given time. Yet another reason why I think rectories are a terrible idea. For the earlier part of my ministry we lived in rectories in Saskatchewan, the Arctic, and northern Alberta. and northern Alberta. My wife’s family lived over a thousand miles away in Ontario, and mine were in the UK. When our kids were little we almost always went to… Read more »
I appreciate that this can be a real issue. But for some people staying with friends or family for a couple of nights can be a restoring change of scene for some of their leave (while others may be so burnt out from people they just need to escape humans for a bit).
Remind me, please, what was the origin of this discussion? I seem to recall it was an article about the stress faced by bishops? Now we have chat about rectories in the Arctic and everywhere else.
David’s article confirms my conviction that the entire debate about LGBTQ relationships within the church is nothing to do with the validity of LGBTQ relationships within the church, but we LGBTQ people in the church have become the battleground over which various positions within evangelical Christianity fight their doctrinal battles. We are simply caught up in the crossfire, sacrificed so that non-LGBTQ Christians can maintain their doctrinal purity. Sadly, it never had to be this way. David’s article contains this text “The Church of England Evangelical Council (CEEC) was founded by John Stott in 1960 to represent and co-ordinate the… Read more »
Im not an expert on the history of CEEC but I think the reason for the change in constitution in 2014 was in response to pressures that weren’t there in 1960. Im not sure doctrinal purity is a fair comment. There will be a whole range of issues away from the arguments over same sex marriage, PLF and same sex clergy which require careful agreement theologically.
Certainly the latest PLF ‘doctrinal battleground’ was created, not by evangelicals, but the ABY who has since apologised for mismanaging the process and causing profound hurt to people on all sides of the church.
I am left wondering if you have read my article? It introduces a book by fellow evangelicals calling us all to some critical, theological and pastoral self reflection. When you turn up here saying it is not our fault and laying blaming on someone else for where we have got to, you are rather illustrating the problem.
I was responding to the post above. But certainly the ABY is to blame as he acknowledged at GS. If he had considered theology and doctrine at the start of the process rather than at the end he might avoided the abrupt U turn that shocked everyone, including myself, as I rather assumed he had got all his ducks in a row. But that was giving him too much credit as it turned out. But to answer your point haven’t a clue what Inclusive Evangelical’s theological or doctrinal position is on same sex marriage. I rather assumed this was taking… Read more »
For the record, the ABY did not start the process. And if, after the long and exhaustive LLF process, the endless debates here and elsewhere, you can really say you ‘haven’t a clue’ what theological or doctrinal convictions inclusive believers have been bringing to the table then I have to conclude you have not engaged or listened all. If so it is not clear on what basis claim to know about the ABY’s faith and beliefs either – or where and why the process has reached this point?
I would have thought that agreeing to disagree is a sign of maturity and tolerance, not desperation. For example, if members of a family agree to disagree, it is not an “act of desperation of a failing institution” but evidence of love being ranked higher than uniformity.
Until the wedding guest list is published, maturity and tolerance will only get you so far, as far as family is concerned.
I do not understand this comment.
A declining organisation must bring its own stresses for those chosen to lead it. Lots of strategies have been tried and found wanting ranging from the ‘worth a try’ to the absurd. The bishops openly concede that there is a crisis in vocations and then set ridiculous targets such as 10,000 house groups. No wonder the clergy are left reeling. For those looking to be led rather than lead, the bishops are endlessly equivocal about sexuality; they flirt with the idea of full inclusion and then whisk it away again. The safeguarding scandals are shameful and the CofE has chosen… Read more »
Is the Role of a Diocesan Bishop in England becoming too Stressful?
asks Stephen Parsons.
Well, maybe. But if so, who have been the principal architects of the cultural and church-organisational changes ,which have largely contributed to such unsustainable stress-levels?
The wider cultural changes have been caused by a wide variety of factors beyond the control of any individuals. All clergy are now ministering in a society which is more indifferent, if not hostile,to organised religion than was the case a few decades ago. This is particularly difficult for Anglican clergy. They are part of a church that was founded on the basis that the entire population would be members. It was supported by compulsory tithes and the church rate, so money raising was less of an issue. At their institution they are given the cure of souls of (in… Read more »
Bishop Chessun is no different from any other diocesan bishop in having presided over steady decline in engagement with the established Church. It must be dispiriting knowing that you’re leaving your diocese in a worse position than you found it.
Quite. It is ridiculous to ask if a bishop’s work is too stressful. You appoint horses for courses, just as occurs in any other organsiation.
Those doing any of the many genuinely high-stress jobs in UK would hoot with laughter at the idea of a CofE bishop’s job being classified as high stress. Any stress is largely self-generated by inability to delegate, time manage, or take decisions.
You don’t consider straitened finances and resources as stressful?
Of course – that is what most managers have to deal with. Nothing unusual there.
But many managers find it stressful. They just deal with it.
And don’t we want out bishops to be pastors and theologians, rather than hard-bitten managerial types?
You can be a very capable manager without being ‘hard-bitten’.
Of course. But it’s a rare pastoral theologian who is also a good manager.
Maybe the criteria for appointment as bishop are wrong.
I’m sure they are.
Given that bishops have no real fear of being sacked for failing to meet targets, & they have good pensions, they are in far better position than many in UK.
“Any stress is largely self-generated by inability to delegate, time manage, or take decisions.”
What an extraordinary statement.
Why do you think this extraordinary? It seems fairly typical to me
Could stress not be caused by a whole panoply of externally generated threats, constraints and traumas? To say that any stress is largely self generated seems a stretch to me.
One of the problems is that most clergy have not been exposed to the ordinary world of work, let alone had to manage people, large budgets etc. Until I retired I was a non-stipendiary and Head of a large university department. It was like running a small/medium business. That job was done whilst having to retain an international, academic profile. Stress – bishops don’t know the half of it.
I agree.
I don’t disagree that lack of experience of work in the commercial world is a problem for some clergy but there are other stresses which those with responsible jobs in the world of work may not know, for example relying on volunteers rather than people you can tell what to do; being expected to model righteous behaviour; never being off duty; blurred boundaries around who is a colleague, a parishioner, a friend, a subordinate; lacking respect (as witnessed by some comments here); there aren’t many responsible jobs in the commercial world where random grannies tell you how you should be… Read more »
Vivienne, thank you, my thoughts exactly.
You’re right and i apologise to all grannies. My venting here is probably my letting off steam as a counterbalance to what is actually another stress of priestly ministry- the imperative not just to show respect to those people (of whatever age or gender) who think they know better how i should do my job but genuinely to respect them- which i think i do but it has a cost. In the commercial world you can go home after an argument and think “what a tosser” but you cannot do that if you are going to be giving them communion… Read more »
Sadly, I have found that however carefully and thoughtfully one posts a comment on TA, criticism and contradiction seem the invariable result. One might ask why we bother commenting, but we still do!
If lots of reading is called for lots of doubts will follow
I often very much appreciate the viamedia articles – but I find the format dreadful for reading on mobile. Is there an easy solution I may have missed?
I find the typeface too small to read easily, except on my iPad where I can expand the size. Not much help if you don’t have a tablet, I’m afraid.
This may be browser specific; I’m using Chrome on an Android phone.
Click on the three dots at the top right of the screen and select “Show Reading mode”
That does just what I’m after Peter – thanks!
On my iPhone I can turn it sidewise and enlarge the text to the full width.(make sure ‘portrait orientation lock’ is off)
That was my previous work-around too. I recommend giving Peter’s suggestion above a go, it’s an improvement IMO.
Nicholas Henshall feels that “the proliferation of Suffragan Bishoprics has over recent decades weakened the sense of the unity of the Diocese around its Diocesan Bishop,” while Stephen Parsons looks to a diocesan “who knows how to care for others, especially the clergy of the diocese” – before asking if “the task is too onerous and stressful to be accomplished successfully today?” The sheer size of a dozen or so of our dioceses make it all but impossible for their diocesan bishops to exercise their ministry as modelled at their consecration. Instead they are pushed toward a model more akin… Read more »
Smaller dioceses would mean duplication of central personnel and resources, and be more expensive. That’s the rationale behind the call for fewer and bigger dioceses – e.g. the merger, a few years ago, of Bradford, Wakefield, and Ripon and Leeds. Though the new diocese wound up with 3 cathedrals with their deans and staff. I don’t know how much – if any – money was saved by the merger, but someone here will.
Janet they have more bishops than they started with. I’m not sure about archdeacons.
Janet, as I argued on 9 March, if smaller dioceses are to work, not least financially, much of the admin would need to be done regionally. The Leeds solution with its 6 bishops seems to me to be rather more bureaucratic than ecclesiological, in so far as it is likely to weaken “the sense of the unity of the Diocese around its Diocesan Bishop” (Nicholas Henshall). Might it not have been sounder ecclesiologically to have kept the original 3 dioceses with their cathedras and centralised the admin? Maybe that is how it functions pastorally. It would be good to hear… Read more »
AS please explain your thinking about the need for as many Bishops given reduced numbers of clergy?
I think the issue is the number of diocesan bishops, suffragan bishops AND archdeacons ….and whether the C of E is top heavy given decline in parishes, clergy and laity. Certainly dioceses should try and share certain posts like Social Responsibility, Education etc where possible.
The CofE has a dozen or so dioceses which are too big for even the most conscientious diocesan to be received by their clergy as shepherd, chief pastor, father/mother in Christ – the relational metaphors in the Ordinal. Instead he/she is almost bound to become a distant figure, known chiefly through diocesan initiatives dropping into the parsonage inbox – initiatives which would be more likely to be acted on if the bishop’s ministry was truly relational. So not more bishops overall, but fewer suffragans and more dioceses and therefore diocesans. Without this, we’re left with little more than the pious… Read more »
Alastair, a small but telling example of how smaller and more relational dioceses are able to work. When I retired from stipendiary ministry, I sought Permission to Officiate in another diocese, which was given on the basis of references. Much later, on moving to a smaller diocese, Bristol, I was very surprised when the diocesan bishop, Viv Faull, called me in for an hour long interview – me, a 75 year-old PTO, a long way down the CofE food chain!
Most likely making sure that safeguarding issues are understood? The retired list has along with great talent and wisdom some cultural and relational sociological and anthropological issues regarding modern secular concepts of ethical behavior I have found. Especially in the far wings of churchmanship eg Con Evo and extreme High Church Catholic
Safeguarding never entered the discussion.
Then it should have as a matter of priority. Sad .
Richie, you pronounce ex cathedra, but knowing nothing of the circumstances. Safeguarding was dealt with separately.
That’s positive Allan. Also please understand that for those of us affected by dismal safeguarding and yet so want the institution to change, banging the drum is vital. We have a small cadre of retired Clerics who maintain denial and use theological arguments and inherent power and control to keep hidden knowledge of abuse. Its tragic for survivors and families to face this wall of silence. Please understand that my comments do not include the magnificent contribution of the vast majority of retired Clerics , but those who maintain silence ,when their knowledge of historical crimes is hidden, create huge… Read more »
Thank you, Ritchie. I hope you are encouraged by the news that the changes you and others have long wanted to see may, please God, be about to happen.
An advantage of having a larger diocese and thus higher number of bishops is that they are better able to represent a more diverse range of traditions. A positive way forward for a divided church maybe?
Maybe. Or will it canonise our divisions?
Or people could just accept that their bishop is their bishop rather than demanding one that agrees with them about whatever they decided is a “first order issue” today. “Pick a bishop off the menu” is not a positive way forward.
I think it recognises where we are. London seems to manage its divisions quite well with its 5 bishops and is a growing. I would quite like one who manages to talk about Jesus at Easter. But maybe I am bit too traditional.
Do you have a URL that illustrates a bishop who does not talk about Jesus at Easter? I’m intrigued.
That didn’t seem to be the case in the appointment of the bishop of Sheffield. The chosen person (Philip North) was considered unacceptable by one particular group who wouldn’t just accept that he was their bishop.
In that case the appointed candidate wouldn’t just accept that a sizeable proportion of the clergy in the diocese were actually priests. It works both ways.
Because he wouldn’t accept that they were priests. Not the same thing at all.
This is precisely what the RC Church in Ireland has done with neighbouring dioceses as one has become vacant. True, a factor is declining clergy numbers; but it also exemplifies how to share resources more imaginatively and achieve manageable economies of scale. Can it work on a larger scale in England? It will be interesting to see how the Leeds/Middlesborough plans go.
Good to hear from you, Simon. I’ve just re-read Justin Pottinger’s The Bishop and the Baptized. Technical books are pricey – a shame for this one demands to be widely read. It points towards a Church in which bishops would know all their clergy by name, presbyterates would be small enough to gather in one place, suffragans and archdeacons would be fewer in number, and area bishops would shift to diocesans.
…..plus, where practical, admin to be done regionally/quasi provincially.
JF this needn’t be the case since personnel, finance, property etc resources can be centralised (shared) across many dioceses. However of over riding concern is why CofE has so many bishops while membership has declined. Other denominations now have leaner models!
a diocesan bishop has a staff team to support them ( of clerics and lay people) so surely a bishop could have knowledge of all the points Stephen makes, but the wider staff team make up the deeper knowledge the bishop doesnt have
I’m curious – have any of those commenting here ever genuinely felt or experienced a sense of unity gathered round their diocesan bishop? I haven’t.
I did under our last Diocesan, Janet. There were some who didn’t, but that was more to do with the timing as it was right in the middle of some of the worst nastiness over women Bishops. The Bishop was male, but he was unapologetically a supporter, and some of those opposed were unwilling to be collegial with any of us who were supporters. Under the current Bishop what unity there was has been completely shattered – the only collegiality is that peddled as hot air from the Bishop’s leadership team who keep insisting what is absent is present at… Read more »
It’s good to hear of positive experiences. I have wondered whether the absence of them that I’ve had was due to being an ordained woman through the years when battles were being fought over women’s ordination. We were at the centre of the ‘problem’ and bishops don’t like problems.
However, I did experience a sense of unity in an archdeaconry around a suffragan bishop. He was pastoral, and met annually with the ordained women.
Yes.
Thank you Tim. Always value the different perspective you bring here.
Janet, that’s my point. I suspect +Archangel Gabriel would struggle to foster a sense of unity in a diocese numbering clergy in the hundreds. And to answer your question, I have – at times. I’m sorry to hear of your experience.
Thank you, Allan.
Maybe, back in the 1990s at Maundy Thursday Chrism Eucharist. But I was young then, and the times seemed simpler.
Yes I think I felt that on Maundy Thursday in Birmingham Cathedral this year. We have a new bishop who has been well received by all parties and is well liked. And, to be honest, referring back to Stephen Parsons’ article, a lot of us are full of admiration for him for taking on this see!
Corrosive complacency? ‘Nurse, I have just lost an arm and leg and I am about to lose the other arm and leg.’ Nurse – ‘I can’t imagine how that happened, why don’t you sit down and tell me all about it’.
Hello Janet. Happy Easter. I don’t know if this would make this thread better or worse, but I think my fellow parishioners regard the bishops (all of them) as largely irrelevant. And I know that this may sound cruel, but when I was first elected churchwarden, I rather piously decided that I would deliberately travel to hear the relevant suffragan bishop preach each year, in order that I would know the bishop’s mind on the key spiritual questions of the day. Now approaching the end of my term, I explained this annual pilgrimage in passing to a friend retired with… Read more »
Parish vs Diocese? The classic tension in the CofE, as both have claims to be the local church – with the Parish getting by far the most votes among the faithful. Yet in Anglican polity the Diocese is the local church in its fullness, presided over by the Bishop; while, in the parishes, bishops share the cure of souls with the priests who exercise ministry on their behalf. That bishops are regarded as ‘largely irrelevant’ by your fellow parishioners is tragic but entirely understandable, given that bishops are often experienced as remote figures – overseers, good for the occasional confirmation.… Read more »
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. At whose response might I be surprised? The parishioners politely expressed no enthusiasm when I have mooted the idea of episcopal visits and there has been no uptick in attendance numbers when senior clergy have appeared, but I agree that we could give it another go. If I can be candid on an anonymised forum like this, the problem is that they have tended to be adequate, but not good, preachers and as their purpose is principally ‘mystical’ in theory, they don’t really add much in practice to a Sunday service other than the mystical… Read more »
Our suffragan preached this year at our Holy Week services up to and including Good Friday (the second hour with 3 homilies); a good example of episcopal teaching ministry. His sermons were thoughtful, challenging and very well received. As a former diocesan lay chair, I have been involved in the process of appointing one diocesan and several suffragans. They all have been chosen (I hope with the influence of the Holy Spirit) for the qualities that the diocese deems necessary. My gripe with diocesans is that when they get up the list and become members of the House of Lords,… Read more »
Good to hear. I think it’s a loss both to our bishops and to our parishes that bishops don’t get more invitations from the coal face. They’re not just confirming machines!
Bishops in the Lords. I think they can become like second-term prime ministers – drawn by the lure of a foreign adventure.
An overseas perspective: In our province of Alberta we have three Anglican dioceses: Athabasca, Edmonton, and Calgary. According to their websites, the numbers are as follows: Athabasca: 22 parishes, Edmonton: 46 parishes, Calgary: 67 parishes. Each of these dioceses has its own diocesan bishop. There are no suffragan bishops. The total land mass of the province of Alberta is 255,541 square miles. My diocese of Edmonton covers a fairly narrow central strip; to drive from the northernmost to the southernmost community in the centre (Westlock to Wetaskiwin) would take 1 hour 45 minutes, but to drive it east to west… Read more »
There must be stress around . At present Lincoln is on police bail, Salisbury has “ stepped back “while Wilts police investigate , Derby is off work , and Newcastle doesn’t appear to want York in her diocese … and that’s just the non-vacant sees
I also think there is, Charles, but I disagree on those examples necessarily indicating its presence as a causative factor. In general terms, without intending to prejudge outcomes in the cases under investigation, there can be a multiplicity of reasons for poor choices – or indeed good ones, in the case of +Newcastle! I have no doubt, though, that each of the situations you point to have resulted in increased stress, for the Bishops concerned, for any who may have been wronged, and for plenty of others.
I’m not up to speed about Lincoln and hesitated to comment on Salisbury. The bishop “stepping back” shouldn’t be read as there being grounds for some possible ‘irregularity’ on the part of the bishop personally. That appears to have been assumed in some comments I have read (I stress, of course, that yours does not carry any such implication); the word ‘fraud’ has also been used, it seems rather loosely, without specific source identification or who it relates to.
As to inclusivity and the Bible, I think that the most important discussion of spiritual vs physical intimacy is John’s portrayals of Mary of Bethany and the Beloved Disciple. The question of spiritual (vs ‘pandemic’ love) was known at that time as a theme of Plato’s Symposium
Martin, whilst I love John’s portrayal of Jesus’ relationship with both, I am puzzled by your apparent opposition of spiritual versus physical intimacy. Cannot a physically intimate relationship be spiritual? Could you kindly expand.
I acknowledge that the Symposium can be read as a staged journey, physical leading to spiritual, but even that risks portraying the physical as something always lesser, which I think is a sad loss.
Surely it’s the quality of the relationship that counts – empathic and caring versus hierarchical and transactional – rather than the acts involved.
I think you mean ‘platonic’ love. No doubt autocorrect is to blame.
I did mean ‘pandemic’ love. Plato begins, through an early speaker in tne dialogue, with distinguishing Aphrodite Urania, the goddess who presides from heaven, from Aphrodite Pandemos, her earthly other self who walks ‘all over the city’ involving herself in the sexual attractions that come to everyone. A later speaker, Aristophanes, develops both the theme of our being drawn by nature to a sexual partner in earthly life and the theme of friendship and comradeship as a form of love that can draw us heavenward. Aristophanes introduces the ideas of ‘laying down life for one’s friends’ and of being a… Read more »
Thank you Martin, that is exactly the clarification I was hoping for. The Symposium has been an inspirational text for many homosexual people for centuries, because we see in it a distinction between two ways of being that matches our own perception of the world. Karl Ulrichs, probably the first major gay campaigner, developed the name “uranian” for homosexual people from this very text. Harry Hay developed his idea of “subject-subject” consciousness. Writing in the patriarchal 1950s (before feminism and the new man) he argued that heterosexual men had a subject-object type of relationship – men and women are different,… Read more »
Thank you, Martin, I’ve learned something.
Thanks for kind word
I have to say that the phrase ‘pandemic love’ is irrevocably associated, in my mind, with the video of Matt Hancock groping his lover in his office!
Just to correct myself – the idea of laying down one’s life is the main theme of the first speech of the Symposium, that of Phaedrus, perhaps the most conventional in tone, and appears only rather obliquely in Aristophanes, who dwells on the half-suppressed desire of lovers not to die apart.
The participants differ on whether women are capable of the highest forms of love and in their view of men who pursue teenage boys
Martin, thanks for your comments. The Symposium is endlessly rich. You find a link to the beloved disciple, others to Genesis 2.
I think I can seen how you make a link between the beloved disciple and the Symposium, but where does Martha of Bethany fit into you framework? Please excuse me if I am being dense.
You’re no less lucid than I am, I’m sure! Martha seems to be very much reconfigured from the fussy housewife in Luke, she’s now a thoughtful and dignified heroine of faith – the Christian Diotima?? The Mary part of the story does surely show Jesus’ acceptance of a kind of spiritual love from women that takes erotic forms, even if they verge on impropriety. I am not actually sure whether we should say he accepts it or only that he excuses it because of the uniqueness of the situation. Being related to a unique situation it is not the Unum… Read more »
Martin, That is helpful, thank you. I think we are very close to each other in our understandings of the link between John and the Symposium, but we use a different lenses. A traditional Christian take on this draws a distinction between physical and non-physical relationships, with one being impropriety and the other spiritual. But much of the gay scholarship I explore draws a different distinction. It’s the quality of the relationship that counts, whether it is possessive, hierarchical and transactional, or whether it is a union and meeting of radical empathy, what Harry Hay called “seeing the other whole”.… Read more »
Are not bishops in the CofE required to visit every parish in their dioceses on a regular schedule? According to the constitution and canons of the Episcopal Church, diocesan bishops are required to visit every congregation within their diocese at least once every three years. These visits are official, known as episcopal visitations, and focus on overseeing the spiritual and temporal health of the parish. Bishops use these occasions for services of Confirmation and the Renewal of parishioners’ Baptismal Vows. Parish churches often have special chairs, used only by the bishop during worship on the occasion of the bishop’s visit.
I will leave to others to respond about the bishop’s visitation responsibilities. Yes, confirmations take place in parish churches, sometimes in cathedrals, and many parish churches have a bishop’s chair, usually positioned in the sanctuary and often on the north side (unlike cathedrals where the bishop’s throne is customarily on the south side). But there are serious logistical difficulties due to the sheer number of parishes and churches in English dioceses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Church_of_England_dioceses Scroll down to ‘Statistics’ for the relative numbers of churches in each diocese. At the top end several are in excess of 600: Oxford has 811. Even with… Read more »
And yet we constantly hear on this site that the Church of England has too many bishops.
Somehow I anticipated that there might be a response from Canada! The subject has been well aired on TA and there has been recent counter-argument by some for smaller dioceses and more bishops. The figures in themselves are interesting and revealing: compare, for example, the respective sizes and resources of London and Carlisle.
This particular Canadian has been mainly keeping quiet for a while.
If my memory of a past post from you is correct, Tim, a useful comparison might be made not with the ratio of Bishops to Priests, but with the ratio of Bishops to their Diocesan support staff, in the UK and Canada.
Absolutely. And this varies a lot from diocese to diocese across Canada.
Maybe we have too many bishops of the wrong kind doing the wrong things in the company of the wrong people?
I mean managerial, bureaucratic bishops spending too much time and energy engaging with other bishops, archdeacons, diocesan staff etc etc.
If we had the same number of bishops, more humbly housed and stipended, overseeing much smaller dioceses, with much much smaller central establishments, perhaps a better balance of parochial presence and pastoral attention could be possible?
Open mind – that is what was in my mind when I made that response to Tim.
So s/he could get round approximately once every 12 years if s/he had a fortnight’s annual
holiday ? Or once every 6 years if shared with one suffragan?
It depends on what is seen to be the priority doesn’t it?
Most bishops no longer require ‘the bishop’s chair’ when visiting parishes. This may be so as not to appear monarchical, but it also aligns with the principles of the liturgical movement in which the presider’s chair is integral to every Eucharist – a principle clouded by a separate bishop’s chair. As Robert Hovda has it: “The presider must be present to the assembly as a warm body – that’s why the chair is important even when the presider is not actively leading.” When I led a workshop for deacons on liturgical presidency, I’d ask them to point out the four… Read more »
Most bishops do what the church they are visiting expects. Here the diocesan sits on a chair on the north side of the chancel facing south, but any other bishop sits on a faldstool in front of the altar facing the congregation.
Well, my experience has been different. It’s a long time ago but at my confirmation by Bishop Henry Montgomery Campbell (see Wikipedia) his cope was draped over the altar and his mitre placed centrally upon it – all removed, of course, for the Eucharist. Not only was there a bishop’s chair in the sanctuary, as I described, but it bore the arms of the Diocese of Guildford. The last time I saw a bishop occupying the episcopal throne was a late night service of Compline by candlelight in Winchester Cathedral. Bishop John Vernon Taylor was wearing just a plain cassock,… Read more »
I’m providing a link (see below) to a video, made in the 1980’s, by Charles Fulton. then the head of the Episcopal Church Building Fund. He says here that the 4 main foci of the liturgy are the font, the lectern/pulpit, the altar, and the assembled people of God. No mention is made of a chair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx8Luog5M_U&t=261s
The video insists on starting about 5 minutes into the video, so please slide the little red ball at the bottom of the page to the left, so the video starts for you at the beginning.
That’s because your link says to start at 261 seconds in! If you remove the “&t=261s” from the end of the link, then it will start at the beginning.
John, thank you for this. I loved Charles Fulton’s description of St Mark’s as ‘honest’, but no mention of the presider’s chair, perhaps because it was lost in the midst of a long line of chairs. Both there and at Christ Church I feel it would have been better if three solid chairs – deacon, presider, sub-deacon – had been brought forward to the south side and set at an angle oriented more towards the people than to the altar. When my last parish did this, it brought an end to instructions to sit and to stand, and allowed the… Read more »
If one does take Oxford as the example there are in fact only a shade over 600 parishes, and the diocese has a diocesan and three fully-fledged suffragans. If each bishop visits a parish each week then they’ll conveniently get round the lot in three years. (Of course things are more complex than this, but a visit each three years is not too much to expect. It’s a matter of priorities.)
Possibly the Bishop of Oxford, or one of his colleagues, would be best qualified to respond to the idea that episcopal visits should be weekly
It would certainly be easier to do if churches accepted that being visited mid-week counted. I suspect the CofE is like other churches, and is much more likely to see people on Sundays than at mid-week events…
Thank you for that clarification. It’s also a reminder of what a small denomination the Episcopal Church really is, and how many denominations there are in the USA (over 200). As the saying goes, whenever two or three Christians in the USA are gathered together, they fall into disagreement and separate to create three new denominations.
Thank you. My own limited experience of TEC has been entirely of happy memories and kind people. At my first service in ‘small town’ America, in rural Pennsylvania 30 miles from the nearest large town, the opening hymn was one written by a former Dean of Winchester (now for 50+ years my home diocese), and the gradual was one of the beautiful hymns of John Keble, vicar of the parish where I now live in a house he is known to have visited: all this some 3,500 miles from home. The TEC clergy and congregation were kindness itself. That, if… Read more »
Is the Role of a Diocesan Bishop in England becoming too Stressful? Living one’s life and doing one’s work all the time under the scrutiny of a public role and at the same time having to function within a gigantic organisational superstructure is never going to be easy. Add to that the collapse in trust for public figures and their institutions along with any number of brickbats and we easily find a turgid recipe for bad mental health assailing bishops (and clergy in general). A while ago it was realised that the majority of clergy tend to introversion, whereas most… Read more »
Oh- in addition to jettisoning parish visits do you mean??
I suspect that most bishops find parish visiting an enjoyable part of the job. At the church where I grew up there was a debate about whether the best china should be brought out for the suffragan or reserved for the Diocesan. I would imagine the stress comes from: 1. Finances – how many clergy can we afford? 2. Deployment – where do we put the clergy (and dealing with parishes used to having their own incumbent and/ or curate when they are told they will be sharing in future)? 3. Safeguarding 4. Complaints ranging from the trivial which the… Read more »
We were told in the St Albans diocese to have the evening off before our day off; once a month have two consecutive days off; to take six weeks holiday; to take days off in lieu of bank holidays we’d worked; a week’s retreat each year and to take time off for our cell group. This seemed to me to be wise advice from the bishop and I found that it was sufficient to cope with the demands of ministry. Clergy do have to take some responsibility for their own health and wellbeing.
The recommendation of six weeks holiday is all well and g
My last post got sent accidentally before I had finished it. It would be very nice to have six weeks holiday, but can nowadays be very hard for parish clergy to find Sunday cover when in dioceses like ours there are so many parishes in interregnum absorbing all the PTOs.
Why is it the priest’s job to find cover for their holiday? Other denominations make pulpit supply a lay responsibility. Can’t the churchwardens be a first point of contact in the absence of clergy?
Whose responsibility it is makes no difference to the main problem which is lack of availability of clergy to provide cover. This is exacerbated by the fact even the available clergy are not all well adapted to manage the sort of Sunday service we have. Unless they have been to Westcott, Staggers or Mirfield, recently ordained clergy will have received not even the most rudimentary instruction in how to conduct a liturgical service. I should say that up to 50% of clergy in this diocese have never worn mass vestments.
I understand that Common Tenure givs clergy six weeks leave each year. I have no idea where clergy find sufficient cover for that much leave.
Church wardens can lead morning and evening prayer if needs be. The labourer is worthy of his or her hire; getting enough rest is part of that contract. With the collapse in vocations clergy will have to signpost where there is a celebration of the Eucharist elsewhere if cover is not available. A cleric is not an unlimited resource.
Develop good relationships with local ptos, book them in early. Acclimate your parish to welcome regular noneucharistic worship at the main service, and employ and train readers and lay worship leaders to provide. Won’t work everywhere, and requires effort, but can be done.
When I worked in northern Alberta retired clergy were few and far between, since we were far from major cities and most clergy wanted to retire to cities. The Lay Readers went into action when I was on holiday. Most years we were lucky to get one week covered by a clergyperson during my holidays. The rest was covered by our local lay readers. Since I moved to Edmonton it was a little less difficult, but still at my past parish (where I served 24 years), if I was off for six weeks of the year (5 weeks holiday and… Read more »
Nor how they afford to go away for six weeks.
I’ve never been able to holiday away from the parsonage for 6 weeks a year, nor wanted to, TBH. In one parish no problem having time off at home as the house hidden away and I worked from an office elsewhere. In the other more problematic – house next door to church. But with a straightforward notice about being on leave on the door right next to the doorbell, and a clear message on the answerphone, it’s bearable.
That worked in some of the clergy houses I lived in. But in two of the vicarages, people were used to turning up at the vicarage at any time of the day or evening and refused to be put off. And the vandalism doesn’t stop just because the vicar is having a break.
An archdeacon commented to me that in poorer areas there are a lot more interruptions to life in the vicarage. In middle class/suburban areas, people art more inclined to leave the vicar alone.
(How?) did you cope with that level of engagement?
With difficulty!
For the second half of my ministry I was fortunate in that the Diocese of Edmonton had no rectories; we provided our own housing and there was no need to ‘go away’ if we couldn’t afford it at any given time. Yet another reason why I think rectories are a terrible idea. For the earlier part of my ministry we lived in rectories in Saskatchewan, the Arctic, and northern Alberta. and northern Alberta. My wife’s family lived over a thousand miles away in Ontario, and mine were in the UK. When our kids were little we almost always went to… Read more »
I appreciate that this can be a real issue. But for some people staying with friends or family for a couple of nights can be a restoring change of scene for some of their leave (while others may be so burnt out from people they just need to escape humans for a bit).
Remind me, please, what was the origin of this discussion? I seem to recall it was an article about the stress faced by bishops? Now we have chat about rectories in the Arctic and everywhere else.
I think the thread developed from matters of episcopal stress to clergy stress more generally.
Sharp minds keep to the point!
Diversity and digression are the hallmarks of regular discussion on TA.
I disagree. The tangents are often valuable.
Reflective minds are open to digression?