Helen King sharedconversations Consider the lilies: on changing one’s mind
Jo Stobart Like the Lorries… Ribbons – General Synod (February 2026)
Gavin Drake Church Abuse Why does the Church of England describe child abuse as an “intimate sexual relationship”?
I so agree with Gavin. Having worked in the past with vulnerable and abused girls, their experience needs to be called out and named for what it is ‘Child Sexual Abuse’. The law is clear, consent cannot be given by a young woman who is under 16, however mature she may seem to be.
Words certainly do matter. I read the extracts from the judgment with disbelief – it was almost as though we had regressed by sixty years in attitudes. There is no consent when a 29 year old male forces himself on a 15 year old girl that he has groomed – rape would be most accurate term.
Dr Wallace I totally agree, and this is another most illuminating article by Gavin Drake – thank-you. Society’s attitude towards the sexual abuse of young teenage girls has been changing very slowly during my working life. When I started the young victim having ‘asked for it ‘ and lead the unfortunate bloke astray was an extremely common view among both the police and quite a few of the judiciary, particularly if the unfortunate child returned and had sex on other occasions. Z might have got away with being raped once, but if she returned after that it became an ‘intimate… Read more »
I absolutely agree. I read the judgment and flinched at the Deputy President’s choice of words. Children cannot consent to sex or “intimate sexual relationships” with men twice their age: The End.
There are two questions here, personal and systemic.
Yes the deputy president used appalling language which showed outdated attitudes, and a wrong understanding of the law.
But when wrong things happen, what is the system or process to correct them? And as I understand it, there is no appeal process for this stage of judgment. Nothing can be done to change it, or him. Surely that is equally wrong.
So, it is time to demand the resignation of the Deputy President of Tribunals. This was statutory rape. There could be no consent. Time to go…
I wonder if part of the issue here is the way in which the law was muddied by the Gillick case in the 1980s. Following that, the legal system quickly became reluctant to prosecute anyone having sex with someone under 16, as that judgement appeared to suggest a competence to consent under the age of 16. Such cases were dropped as being “not in the public interest”, and by the late 90s some were suggesting that the age of consent had effectively been abolished. If the Deputy President is one of that generation of lawyers who take that view, that… Read more »
But didn’t the sexual offences act 2003 provide such clarity in cases, such as here, where there is an imbalance of power, and a person in a position of authority.
I also agree with Gavin. Words and power imbalance matter. Sadly the Epstein files demonstrate that the rich and powerful almost always get away with perpetrating abuse, only a very few face the consequences this side of the grave. I do wonder if the church’s deep ongoing problem in taking sexual consent seriously has its roots in part in the rather problematic and embarrassing idealisation and belief in a conception and ‘virgin’ birth that does not withstand too much close scrutiny in this context. What do Christians understand consent to mean, if sex and intimacy is only for heterosexual marriage?
I agree. Gavin’s analysis of the language used to describe Tudor’s abuse, e.g., ‘intimate relationship’, is chilling.
Helen King may have changed her mind on church flowers but I don’t see any change in the CofE’s approach to PR. Its post synod press release shows two blokes stood in front of an arrangement of twigs. There are male flower arrangers but in my experience they are very rare; without exception, all the flower arrangers I’ve ever known would have put that bunch of twigs on the compost heap.
https://www.churchofengland.org/media/news-and-press-releases/general-synod-backs-sustainable-church-flowers-motion
They aren’t male flower arrangers – if you watch the video they’re the local vicar and Shane Connolly who is a professional florist who has done arrangements for royalty etc. I agree, rather than use a still from a video a shot of some parish flower arrangers doing their thing would have been much better.
I am reminded of what I believe has been called the Alternative Australian National Anthem, and, given my lack of a black belt in ikebana, I feel a certain sympathy with its sentiments. So, arise Australia –
“This is the wattle,
the emblem of our land.
You can stick it in a bottle
or hold it in your hand.”
No, I don’t know the tune….
I am a survivor who has given evidence to Sue Williams’ review. Please respect my right to maintain anonymity. I will not comment here on the underlying cases or CDM decisions made but I do want to add further insight into Gavin’s comments about A “public session” that no one could attend. The session on 20th November was not in any sense public, even those with legitimate interest in it were unaware that it was going to happen. I was informed on 24th November (just before the notice of delay to SPR was published) that a 2nd CDM complaint against… Read more »
Once again the C of E has failed to be mindful of the needs of survivors. I’m sorry you have been treated with such casual cruelty.
It must have been a very harrowing time and presumably no support of any kind was offered to you … and the NST as ever sees its role as institution focused ( and would probably call itself independent)
Like Janet I’m very sorry
Thank you both for your concern but that has not been my experience. I have been offered and accepted support following contact with NST which has helped me find a way through the CDM and SPR process. As I wrote in a letter published in Church Times 24 January 2025 Letters to the Editor: “I fear that the news of so many historic safeguarding failures may discourage other victims of abuse from making disclosures, without which the Church cannot act. It has been a long and complicated process, but I have generally felt well supported through it since making contact… Read more »
Thank- you for the correction .I don’t often read the Church Times because of the paywall… I’m relieved that you have not found the situation as uncomfortable as it sounded !
There is another point that I would like to raise relating to paragraph 7 of the penalty determination: “We must fix a penalty that would have been appropriate for the respondent at the time he committed these acts…” At that time a complaint would have been made under the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Measure 1963 which allowed the penalty of “Deposition from Holy Orders” I believe that would be the most appropriate penalty for the respondent to receive but know that it is not an option under CDM rules. I understand that following IICSA recommendation this additional penalty will be reinstated in… Read more »