Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 18 November 2020

Helen King ViaMedia.News Living in Love & Faith – Waiting for Godot

Diarmaid MacCulloch Modern Church Living in Love and Faith

David Monteith Dean of Leicester Living in Love and Faith
“No change but change?”

Stephen Parsons Surviving Church ‘Vulnerable Adults’ and Safeguarding literature.

Church of England Evangelical Council The Beautiful Story “a film to encourage and enable evangelicals to engage and contend in discussions about human sexuality”. It’s 32 minutes long. They have also published a fuller introduction and suggested ‘next steps’ for church leaders here.
Charlie Bell has published this response.

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Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
5 days ago

It’s nice to hear someone as eminent as Diarmaid MacCulloch support my very amateur assertion that the major flaw in the LLF document is the almost total blindness to history.

And the stuff about David and Jonathan is fascinating. It confirms yet again how much we are in the hands of biblical translators.

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
5 days ago

I think Diarmaid has with exquisite good manners upturned the LLF applecart of assumptions about marriage. It will be interesting to see if there is any response, my sense is that they usually ignore his brilliant scholarship. None of the bishops are of a sufficient academic calibre to put forward a different view, even supposing such a view could be legitimately argued. Diarmuid for archbishop I say!

Paul
Paul
5 days ago

Apologies – but I don’t really see why his piece would merit a response? I’ve appreciated MacCulloch’s books, but I really don’t see what’s so revolutionary about this piece.  What are his big historical claims? 1. Many recent scholars think 2 Timothy is pseudepigrapha 2. Some scholars think there are homoerotic overtones to David and Jonathan’s relationship 3. Jesus allows no exceptions for divorce except in Matthew 19 which some have suggested is an addition 4. The early church believed in an imminent parousia 5. Until the 1100s marriages weren’t celebrated in church  6. The Professor thinks that Paul contradicts… Read more »

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
4 days ago
Reply to  Paul

It may be that recently trained clergy already know all that, but there will be many lay people and older clergy to whom some of those points are new.

Although I concluded many years ago that there are homoerotic elements in the David and Jonathan account, there was consternation when I suggested it in a Bible study more recently. The detail give by MacCulloch was new to me and it does strengthen the case.

ACI
ACI
4 days ago
Reply to  Paul

Thank you. It is easy to decide an ‘expert’ has spoken and all is solved. As you note, much of this is recycled stuff and parts of it question-begging.

Susannah Clark
5 days ago

I no longer post regularly here, though I do follow people’s comments. That should not be taken as a snub. This is a valuable site. However, my withdrawal was part of a recognition that my vocation was not in church politics, but in prayer: what you might call ‘deep-state contemplation’ and prayer for the world. I know I can be critiqued for that withdrawal, but it’s who I am, and I know that. A few words, from silence, on LLF. I don’t believe in ‘either… or’. I believe in a radical inclusion that takes a ‘broad church’ approach, as true… Read more »

Savi Hensman
Savi Hensman
5 days ago
Reply to  Susannah Clark

Good to hear from you, Susannah. I think we might give the bishops slightly longer into 2022 to hear from parishes and have Synod discussions – but if they keep blocking progress towards allowing diversity of practice and what is on offer is as meagre as David Monteith’s piece indicates, action of this kind is well worth considering.

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
5 days ago

A former parishioner gave up a good job earning squillions in the mining industry to work for the CofE in Church House, Westminster. Part of the role involved going round dioceses attending the bishop’s senior staff meetings. She told me that she had never encountered such a dysfunctional organisation as the CofE, both nationally and regionally. She resigned after eight months in the role. David Monteith’s article reveals the dysfunctional relationships in the Leicester set up: ‘Our diocesan bishop holds (as far as I can glean) a fairly conservative approach to sexuality, gender and marriage.’ Ought not the dean as… Read more »

Charles Read
Charles Read
5 days ago

The bishop’s ruling is, I suspect, to cover licenced lay ministers. The Church of England has prohibited clergy from entering into same-sex marriages. (I am not suggesting I agree with this – just explaining where we are!)

Perry Butler
Perry Butler
5 days ago
Reply to  Charles Read

But if so I think it varies from diocese to diocese.

Charles Read
5 days ago
Reply to  Perry Butler

Yes it does – there are no national guidelines for Readers regarding same sex partnerships. It is a postcode lottery. However, I don’t want a national guideline on this because we all know what it would be! (It does mean Readers moving dioceses might find themselves unable to apply for a licence in their new diocese.)

Father David
5 days ago

Just as every parish I have ever served in contained its “usual suspects” who constantly behaved like St. Paul’s “thorn” so too every parish should also contain a Doris Spink to gladden the heart and provide legendary plum bread. In one of my former parishes it wasn’t a Doris but a Barbara and it wasn’t plum bread but delicious sloe gin!

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
4 days ago
Reply to  Father David

Father David you were called to classy parishes, I was never offered sloe gin. I think Doris decided of me ‘let him eat cake’!

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
4 days ago

I hear everything you say Fr. Dean. But knowing David Monteith well, as a friend and former colleague, I want to urge compassion. Please read between the lines and find the courage that writing his article will have taken, and the further grief that will come because of it. I am sure, from what you write, that you know all about that. It is easy to post what other people should do, but we need to stand in their shoes and understand how the world feels from there.

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
4 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Mike, surely by publishing the article the Dean anticipated and sought some sort of reaction. My comments are not unkind or even critical, more about emboldening the Dean to use his position of power to improve the lot of the LGBTQI clergy in Leicester. If you’re suggesting that this article was a ‘coming out’ then I think you’ll find that it will be a hugely liberating experience for David Monteith and his partner. The homophobe’s ability to bully you is greatly diminished from that moment on. I don’t mean this in an unkind way, in fact quite the opposite: most… Read more »

Charles Read
Charles Read
5 days ago

I have managed to watch the first third of the CEEC video after a friend who would not describe themselves as evangelical alerted me to it. (They said it put them off their breakfast.) I am one of those evangelicals who was pushed out of the evangelical group at GS when EGGS changed its constitution to say there was only one view (for evangelicals) on same sex partnerships and on gender identity. If you deem those who disagree with you as heretics, then of course you can say, as this video does, that ‘all evangelicals agree…’. I could go on… Read more »

Lizzie Taylor
Lizzie Taylor
4 days ago
Reply to  Charles Read

Thanks to Charles for illuminating the important parallel and irony here. Remember all the years we were told that “the Bible is clear” that women should submit to men in marriage and church, not be priests or bishops, etc? Now evangelicals are generally acknowledged to have differing, Biblically-faithful views on women’s ministry and roles. Indeed, there’s a bishop who is a woman speaking on the CEEC video, alongside one of the bishops who teaches that the Bible says women should not be priests or bishops. Evangelicals now agree to differ on the roles of women, but count themselves Biblically-faithful. So… Read more »

Canon Dr Graham Blyth
Canon Dr Graham Blyth
3 days ago
Reply to  Lizzie Taylor

I would simply like to add that, as usual, there was no reference whatsoever to divorce in ‘The Beautiful Journey’. Amongst all the unbeautiful unmarried sex that was discussed, the CEEC are obviously quite unperturbed by Jesus’ strictures on putting away wives.I assume there are no remarried clergy or laity in this particular evangelical cohort – which must add to how pleased they all seemed with themselves.

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
2 days ago

And, presumably, none who practise birth control. Until the modern era contraception was widely regarded as the ‘sin of Onan’ and forbidden by most churches.

Stanley Monkhouse
5 days ago

I welcome the Evangelical Council’s video. I hope they produce many more of its ilk. It is slick and smooth, as I’d expect. The content is also as I’d expect: vacuous and anti-intellectual. It’s rehearsal of Biblical and Dominical instructions on the matter are fictional. The more that see the video, the more they will appreciate the qualities of the Evangelical Council – some of whom even have PhDs. I pray that the video will (pardon the expression) go viral.

Last edited 5 days ago by Stanley Monkhouse
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
4 days ago

But don’t you think Stanley that, because this film is so slick and no contrary voices are heard, that some in our churches who instinctively are much more in the middle ground, will hear this and think it is mainstream. I fear that, unless this film is challenged robustly in an equally informed and high production way, then it risks gaining an orthodoxy that it should not have.

Stanley Monkhouse
4 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Maybe, Mike, but I can’t resist a bit of irony. Or is s sarcasm? I’m not worrying too much. Having ministered in posh suburbia, rural, Ang/Meth LEP, country town, town centre and UPA, I have never encountered anyone even remotely interested in what other people do with their genitals, or even what the Bible says, or rather doesn’t say, about it. As Graeme Buttery (I think it was he) pointed out, the lives of the upper echelons of the C of E and members of GS are far removed from the lives of ordinary church goers, and light years away… Read more »

Kate
Kate
5 days ago

The CEEC video will put some LGBTI+ people at risk of harm if they watch it. If the House of Bishops don’t do something about it and those promoting it, then the Church of England response to safeguarding is utterly bankrupt.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
4 days ago
Reply to  Kate

Kate, I am with you. In took about 1 minute after I had watched this slick and yet horrid film to move from my own anger and frustration to concern for LGBTI+ friends and colleagues who may watch it, or have other people tell them about it. The film is bad enough, but releasing it at a time when all our mental health is under huge pressure, is down right malicious and cruel. I fear for some this might be the one thing that tips their health over the edge. It is a safeguarding issue, and we need to see… Read more »

Henry Fermoy
Henry Fermoy
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

What patronising nonsense. If you think gay people like myself are such wilted violets as to not be able to watch a video on a subject of debate then you are even worse than the homophobes. At least they treat us like adults.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
1 day ago
Reply to  Henry Fermoy

Bless you brother. I know loads of people, gay and straight, who are really struggling at the impact of this virus. My suggestion was to criticise the release of this film at this time. Apologies my comments didn’t work for you

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
5 days ago

The CofE must sound very attractive to those outsiders seeking meaning in their lives: “Come unto me all who travail and are heavy laden – and then spend years discussing if gay people are equal”. How fulfilling! What puzzles me is why somebody like Charlie Bell is actually seeking ordination in an organisation which can produce such a horrible, hate-filled video.

Kate
Kate
5 days ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

“What puzzles me is why somebody like Charlie Bell is actually seeking ordination in an organisation which can produce such a horrible, hate-filled video.”

I guess some might say that CEEC isn’t the Church of England but with bishops contributing to the video, I think it’s an uncomfortable distinction. How can any LGBTIQ ordinand accept ordination if they could end up under a vow of obedience to one of the bishops who appeared in the video?

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
4 days ago
Reply to  Kate

At least the Bishop of Blackburn admits he might have to leave the CofE and look for “alternative solutions” to be able to preach hatred. It would be far better if he did since he – like a few other bishops – would be happier huddled together elsewhere with like-minded bigots, without the platform of the Established Church giving their views respectability.

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
4 days ago
Reply to  Kate

I’d be the first to acknowledge that I made compromises in order to be ordained and to remain on the payroll, though I also like to think that I was no episcopal doormat either. As to ‘obedience’ I reckoned that it was in matters ‘lawful and honest’. Froghole could possibly give a precise legal definition of that concept that I potentially could have fallen foul of. As it was, none of the bishops I served with ever made a matter we disagreed about a matter of obedience. If he had (they were all men) I would have had to reflect… Read more »

Kate
Kate
4 days ago

I think there is a difference between joining the Church of England in the past when bishops taking a homophobic stance is at least vaguely hypothetical and now when they have released a public video.

Stanley Monkhouse
4 days ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

Provoking statement, FrDavid H – for which I thank you: why did I at the age of 53 contact the DDO about ordination? Why did I one year later ask to change from NS to stipendiary? Why does any of us do what we do? In my case it was inter alia seeking “home” at a turbulent time, seeking the beauty that entranced the adolescent me, and a realisation that the gospel message is profoundly humanly and psychologically authentic. Do I regret it? Yes, sometimes. My pension would have been better had I stayed where I was. I would have… Read more »

Shamus
Shamus
5 days ago

“The Beautiful Story” all seems to be filmed in stunningly well maintained churches. I must say, great production values. Meanwhile, most of us are, if I can put it like this, living in the real world.

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
4 days ago
Reply to  Shamus

Stunningly maintained, but I kept wondering where all the seats had gone. Doesn’t anyone actually attend those churches?

peter kettle
peter kettle
4 days ago
Reply to  Janet Fife

Most of the large churches and cathedrals I have visited when possible this year, have removed all but a few of their seats – when worship re-started, returning just enough to accommodate the permitted number of worshippers.

I agree, it gives the wrong impression at this time, though in medieval times, of course, there wouldn’t have been many seats anyway. and those I have visited have a certain chaste beauty to them, even if the scene can be interpreted as the glory having departed ….

Kate
Kate
4 days ago
Reply to  Shamus

I found it particularly upsetting that one of the churches used was where I was baptised and where, in prayer, I first reconciled my faith and my gender identity. . Had the teenage me sought spiritual advice from the Bishop of Lancaster, based on what I saw in the video, I doubt I would have survived the encounter. That’s scary, but not as scary as the realisation that someone else, today, might suffer horribly, might kill themselves, if they encounter that prejudice and was as vulnerable as my past self. . I think the use of Lancaster Priory shocked me… Read more »

Stanley Monkhouse
4 days ago
Reply to  Kate

Fret not thyself because of those that think they alone are not ungodly, Kate, for Lancaster Priory does not appear. Most of the filming is from the wealthy neoclassical elegance of All Souls Langham Place and that is where the Bishop of Lancaster is filmed. The “gothic” church(es) used is/are not Lancaster Priory. Believe me. Anyway, despite the monarch being its Duke, Lancaster is somewhere north of Oxford/Cambridge, so it wouldn’t be likely to be used. Good train service though. As a native Carliolian, I think of Lancaster as the beginning of The South. Which leads me to another hobbyhorse,… Read more »

Simon Bravery
Simon Bravery
4 days ago

There is a certain irony in Bishop Duff being filmed in All Souls’. The church is under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Maidstone, as it does not believe she should have a leadership role in the church.

The neighbouring All Saints Margaret Street is under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Fulham as it has come to the same conclusion for different reasons. By coincidence both livings are currently vacant.

Stanley Monkhouse
4 days ago
Reply to  Simon Bravery

Yes indeed. It’s delicious!

Jo B
Jo B
3 days ago
Reply to  Kate

I think it vanishingly unlikely that Fr Chris would have permitted Lancaster Priory to be used in such a way. The Priory remains a safe place.

Dave
Dave
4 days ago

I agree with many of the comments about the CEEC video. I am concerned that at the beginning of what I take to be a time of careful listening and discussion, hopefully with a spirit of openness a group in the church produce such a video. Doesn’t this go against the spirit of the process? It seems to me that the video was probably in the making before the publication of the report – it involves so many people in so many different situations, and is so professionally done. I also feel those with knowledge of such things could suggest… Read more »

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
4 days ago
Reply to  Dave

Kate, that’s really distressing. I hope your comments come to the attention of the bishop.

Kate
Kate
4 days ago
Reply to  Janet Fife

I have submitted a formal safeguarding concern to the bishop about the video, it’s content and intended roll out through Zoom sessions with, IMO, insufficient safeguarding in place for vulnerable viewers, some of whom may not be out but made to watch through peer pressure. In fact, it is obvious that part of the intended audience is LGBTI people who are struggling to reconcile their sexuality and faith.

Last edited 4 days ago by Kate
Revd Mark Bennet
Revd Mark Bennet
4 days ago

The CEEC “The Beautiful Story” video is unfortunately framed, I think. It invites people to take their interpretation of scripture from the narrators rather than engaging with the primary text directly (at least there is barely a nod to scripture except to give some generalised assertion, at least in the first part of the video). Also they are in the Church leaders material inviting people to engage with their own video, rather than directly with the material of LLF. It is as if one can only engage with primary texts if one already knows what they say, or should say.… Read more »

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
4 days ago

“There is a lot of good in evangelicalism”. With their association with anti-gay bigotry, tendency to fundamentalism and support for Trump, I’d been interested to know what the ‘good’ is.

Jill Armstead
Jill Armstead
4 days ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

Jesus?

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
4 days ago
Reply to  Jill Armstead

I hadn’t realised He was anti-gay, played the guitar and sang trite worship songs.

Jill Armstead
Jill Armstead
3 days ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

You’re a priest?!

Tim Chesterton
17 hours ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

FrDavidH, I believe we have no record as to whether or not Jesus played any musical instrument, but since you’re speculating, can you give me a good argument for your belief that he wouldn’t have played the guitar? I’m curious. Some folks here will know that I’m a lifelong guitarist who has gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. Is it something I need to give up as a follower of Jesus?

Charles Read
Charles Read
4 days ago
Reply to  FrDavid H

Don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant, but most evangelicals in the Church of England are not anti-gay, fundamentalists or Trump supporters.

Fr. Dean Henley
Fr. Dean Henley
4 days ago
Reply to  Charles Read

Charles, do you have some evidence for your ‘facts’?

Charles Read
3 days ago

Yes I do. I have been in that tribe all my life and know its inner life well. In July 2019 those of us who do not take a conservative line on sexuality were ejected from the evangelical group on Synod. Almost all the other evangelicals I know dissent from the hard line anti-gay stance of the conservatives and are certainly not Biblical fundamentalists, using Biblical scholarship to hear God’s voice in the scriptures. And there are not many Trump supporters anywhere in the UK.

David Runcorn
David Runcorn
3 days ago
Reply to  Charles Read

Folk here might be interested in the initiative of an evangelical church in in Manchester. They have today launched their ‘inclusive vision’ for church community. They have been working towards this for some years. https://churchforeveryone.info

Kate
Kate
3 days ago
Reply to  David Runcorn

I think the concept is absolutely brilliant.

Andrew Lightbown
3 days ago
Reply to  David Runcorn

I think we really need to get beyond using big sweeping terms and wrapping people in them. I would self describe as both catholic and evangelical. There are many good people in all these ‘seemingly’ divergent camps. We need to pull together, accept that some of our ‘differences’ are matters of nuance and style and focus on the tasks in hand, with love and grace. I am appalled by some of the antics that we have witnessed but there are, just are, others in the ‘evangelical’ set who I have the utmost respect for and can and do happily work… Read more »

Interested Observer
Interested Observer
4 days ago

As a general rule, if someone expresses their ideas via a YouTube video rather than writing an essay, then their ideas are worthless. They don’t want their ideas to be critically analysed by people used to working with text, or they don’t believe themselves able to write. Moreover, they don’t want their ideas examined by people who aren’t willing to spend 32 minutes to get to the punchline. They are aiming at the already converted, whom they don’t trust to get the right message unless it is laboriously packaged in the “right way”. An audience of which they are so… Read more »

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
4 days ago

But what is more important, to be right, or to be in power?

Just ask Donald Trump, or the BREXIT campaigners. You don’t have to write convincing articles to persuade people to your point of view. If you use social media to tell even falsehoods convincingly it is much more effective in mobilising mass opinion.

Don’t assume that the people behind these social media campaigns are unintelligent. They know exactly what they are doing.

Pat O'Neill
Pat O'Neill
4 days ago

In my experience, most scriptural literalists (at least the leaders of such movements) do not trust their followers to make up their own minds about the text–after all, they might come to the “wrong” conclusions.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
4 days ago
Reply to  Pat O'Neill

Why should the dignity
of gay people and others depend on “texts”? For most people it should be self-evident. Harking back to the opinion of people 2000 years ago is incomprehensible.

Fr Andrew Welsby
Fr Andrew Welsby
4 days ago

Not very original, but after 36 hours of trauma after watching the video, here’s my response to CEEC: Go on now go, walk out the door, just turn around now ‘cause you’re not welcome anymore. Weren’t you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye? Did I crumble ? D’you think I’d lay down and die?   Oh no not I.   I will survive oh, as long as I know how to love I know I’ll stay alive; I’ve got all my life to live, I’ve got all my love to give, and I’ll survive. WE WILL SURVIVE… Read more »

David Keen
David Keen
4 days ago

A number of commenters seem to be suggesting that any public comment about sexuality which lines up with the current official CofE teaching is acting out of hate and quite possibly committing a safeguarding offence. Does that include the bits of LLF which reflect that view?

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
4 days ago
Reply to  David Keen

Yes, The official teaching of the CofE is hateful.

Sam Jones
Sam Jones
3 days ago
Reply to  David Keen

The comments here show that it really is over for the C of E. It is possible to remain in the same church with people you disagree with but not with people whose views you want to be disciplined or even criminalised. It’s time to start discussing a split.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
3 days ago
Reply to  Sam Jones

You are right. For too long LBGTQ Christians have been disciplined or even criminalised. Time for a split.

Kate
Kate
3 days ago
Reply to  Sam Jones

“It is possible to remain in the same church with people you disagree with but not with people whose views you want to be disciplined…”

LGB clergy are disciplined if they marry which hurts nobody, but apparently if people circulate a video which may put the lives of vulnerable LGBT+ Christians at risk, you think that shouldn’t be a problem. Seriously, how can that possibly be right?

Savi Hensman
Savi Hensman
3 days ago
Reply to  David Keen

I do not think that expressing support for the official line is necessarily acting out of hate (some people genuinely think this is best for LGBT+ people, though a deeply flawed position which causes much harm) nor that it is a safeguarding offence, though actions such as attempted exorcisms, ‘therapy’ supposedly to ‘cure’ people etc are. I think the costs of suppressing freedom of speech are even greater than the price of damaging misunderstandings of the Bible, which should be countered by better readings. It is disappointing though that some non-affirming Christians here lavish such praise on leaders elsewhere who… Read more »

Kate
Kate
3 days ago
Reply to  Savi Hensman

“I think the costs of suppressing freedom of speech are even greater than the price of damaging misunderstandings of the Bible,’

Should Donald Trump be telling his supporters that the election was stolen from him? It is free speech but it is downright dangerous and many people are saying so. Free speech has to be balanced by responsibility, especially when prominent individuals (president, senators, bishops etc) are speaking.

Father Ron Smith
4 days ago

I loved the responses to LLF from both Diarmaid MacCulloch and David Monteith. The Bishops of the Church need to seriously consider what they have to say about this new document. There has been enough obfuscation and delay about the official stance of the C.of E towards LGBT+ people (both laity and clergy). Truth and honesty need to banish the institutional and enforced hypcrisy that the current situation encourages. Time for change – both in strategy and attitude.

John Darch
John Darch
3 days ago

The Church of England Evangelical Council has clearly ceased to be ‘what it says on the tin’. A quick look at its council membership (on its website http://www.ceec.info) and its basis of faith confirms this. One or two more progressive voices remain but are numerically insignificant. Even the AMiE, a body which operates in opposition to existing Anglican parishes, has a seat on the council. The CEEC no longer acts as an umbrella for the many shades of Anglican evangelicalism and is now clearly identified with the hard conservative end of that spectrum. I for one have no confidence in… Read more »

Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
3 days ago

I expect we might discover how CEEC is governed in coming weeks. Its extensive Council (47 members) is effectively led by +Blackburn, as President. It has five other Church of England bishops (+Guildford, +Hereford, +Willesden, +Birkenhead, and +Penrith). The CEEC is not the kind of body that you join in your own right. All council members are effectively representatives. Membership defines you in all areas of your ministry. For example, there are two theological college principals on council, Jonny Jukes (Oak Hill), and Philip Plyming (Cranmer Hall). The working assumption is that all 47 members signed off on the video,… Read more »

Last edited 3 days ago by Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
2 days ago
Reply to  Anthony Archer

It may or may not be noteworthy that, as of today, Philip Plyming’s name no longer appears on the list of council members on the CEEC website. I should add that the council members are not the trustees. The trustees are George Curry, Stephen Hofmeyr, Julian Henderson and Hugh Palmer (source: Charity Commission).

Kate
Kate
2 days ago
Reply to  Anthony Archer

It is common for charitable trusts to have different operational management than the trustees

Last edited 2 days ago by Kate
Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
1 day ago
Reply to  Anthony Archer

It will be interesting to see whether we hear anything from Cranmer Hall in the coming days, one way or another. Of more interest, perhaps, is whether we hear from any CEEC bishops. Expect Zoom chat among GS members during the Group of Sessions this week.

Anthony Archer
Anthony Archer
12 hours ago
Reply to  Anthony Archer

The Bishop of Penrith’s name no longer appears on the list of CEEC council members, a change in the last few hours. That is more significant.

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