Chine McDonald Financial Times New Archbishop of Canterbury will face old evils
Peter Crumpler Christian Today Five reasons why I’m choosing to be hopeful about the new Archbishop of Canterbury
Phil Groves ViaMedia.News Representation and Celebration
Bosco Peters Liturgy Priests who are NOT Deacons
Steve Hollinghurst Inclusive Evangelicals Understanding the House of Bishops decisions
Regarding Peter Crumpter’s article, if we can manage the next 7 years in silent prayer and contemplation regarding sexuality, and put in place a fully independent up to date safeguarding process, that would be a great success.
Hope she can achieve that.
Phil Groves’ article was grounded in reality. The issue of female ministry should be history. We are already wondering what all the fuss was about.
Somebody else commented here somewhere today – Mary Mother of Jesus, Elizabeth, Mary Magdalene, Martha and Mary, plus washing of feet and finding the empty tomb. Women are central throughout the Gospels.
Why do you think the issue of female ministry is history when it’s still very current and there is a whole episcopal structure in place to support it in England? And even a small percentage of a very large number is still a large number, which maybe the King and Archbishop of York may at least raise and eyebrow if not a finger, or maybe two, as he is ultimately accountable whether he likes it or not break up of the Anglican communion.. And he claims to be someone takes accountability seriously. Will he over the failure of LLF? I… Read more »
I didn’t say it is history, I said it should be history.
What we are seeing are post-death spasms.
All four gospels quite pointedly note the presence of women during the crucifixion, seemingly in large numbers. If they are qualified enough to go through that, surely they are qualified for church leadership – in fact you might say that leading the church is exactly what they were doing at the cross.
Bosco Peters’ article on the diaconate is the most sensible thing on the subject I’ve ever read. I spent 7 years as a deacon, knowing it was not my real vocation. It was an uncomfortable position to be in – especially when senior male clergy kept ‘reassuring’ us women, ‘I’m still a deacon too.’ But I did it in obedience, because it was the closest I could get to my real vocation. And before someone chips in about women ‘wanting’ to be priests, I never did want it. I fought it as long as I could, but the vocation was… Read more »
Janet, I’ve heard that phrase used unfeelingly back in the day. But the C of E hasn’t taken the diaconate seriously for decades – 50 years ago even producing a report that proposed scrapping the order. As most deacons now are ordained priest after a year it’s not surprising if deacons are seen as wannabe priests. And while there’s much to be said for spending some time in the diaconate, treating the order solely as a presbyteral noviciate is to the detriment of our mission. Readers/LLMs could be encouraged to explore a vocation to the permanent diaconate, giving their servant/prophetic ministry… Read more »
We do still have a few permanent deacons, but they’re mostly women who didn’t go on to the priesthood, for one reason or another, when it became possible in 1994.
I agree with you re a permanent order of the diaconate. It would be very apt for those who are now licensed as pastoral assistant, parish nurse, and other roles. That would mean, of course, their being clergy rather than lay roles, and I doubt that would be allowed to happen.
I agree with Janet and Allan, but coming at it from an LLM reader experience. I was certain that as a reader my vocation was to education, teaching and preaching, and not a wannabe sacramental ministry which I was barred from as a partnered gay man. The two vocations are different, but readers are often seen as assistant priests.
If we can remove the diaconate from the priestly pathway will it provide greater clarity about what a deacon’s vocation is?
Clarity about diaconal and episcopal vocations has been a victim of what has been called ‘the omnivorous priesthood’, with deacons often seen as priests minus and bishops as priests plus. So a vocational diaconate might, as Perry Butler has said, “breathe some new life into the Three Fold Order”.
For several years I was assisted in my parish by a Deacon Sister of St Andrew who had come to England from Sweden. I subsequently visited Sweden several times and saw their diaconate first hand. At my next parish the Distinctive Diaconate hosted a day conference addressed by Bishop Chartres. But as Fr Sheath says nothing much has happened in 50 years or more. I rather hoped membership of the Poorvoo Communion might lead to some creative rethinking of the role of the permanent Diaconate and breathe some new life into the Three Fold Order to the benefit of all… Read more »
I agree, it’s a loss, and not only to the Church. As an historian you’d know if I’m right in thinking that interest in the diaconate emerges whenever social structures are failing. In 2001 the HoB published ‘For such a time as this – a renewed diaconate’. It was soon forgotten – maybe the time wasn’t right. But now, given the Welfare State’s struggles? John N Collins, did a lot of work on recovering the prophetic and incarnational aspects of diaconal ministry, summed up as: ‘the deacon is to remind the world about God and his Church; the Church about… Read more »
Indeed. The churches in the area thought my parish deacon was the obvious person to be chaplain to the local police.
Is there some confusion or disagreement here over the role of the deacon and LLM. As I understand it (and I am happy to be corrected), the LLM/Reader ministry is primarily a teaching/educational role – to teach, preach and lead worship. The clue is in the world “read”, implying studying text. There are still lecturer posts at Oxbridge labeled reader, and I suspect the origin of both posts overlaps Whereas a deacon (from the Latin “servant”) is primarily a pastoral role – hence Janet’s suggestion that pastoral assistants or pastoral nurses might become deacons. Both roles are valuable but they… Read more »
A problem with Reader/LLM ministry is that (quoting the CofE website) “it looks different in different places depending on the local context.” Add to this the CofE’s confusion around the diaconate and you can see why the 2001 report on a renewed diaconate ran into opposition from Readers on GS who felt it was trespassing on their ground. I once ‘inherited’ a LLM whose ministry was diaconal in that it was both pastoral (working in the food bank) and prophetic (calling the local authority and us to greater generosity). So I asked her to take on the deacon’s liturgical role… Read more »
It does depend on the local bishop. I seem to remember the restoration of a permanent Diaconate in the diocese of Portsmouth but under the succeeding bishop this initiative withered. “Wanting eucharistic hands” is a good phrase. And true enough.
Such a time as this (concerning the ASB Ordinal): “The text of the Ordinal suggests a movement of reaching out from the liturgical heart of the parish to those who are estranged by poverty or sickness, rallying the resources of the parish to meet their need. The converse of this, the reciprocal movement from the needs and concerns of the world to the eucharistic heart of the Church through the ministry of the deacon is a later insight and is not adequately bought out in the Ordinal.” The CW Ordinal, with its more robust theology of the diaconate, does address… Read more »
Thanks Allan, I agree with both your posts. There might be sense in having three distinct and well understood vocations, LLM (education and preaching), deacon (pastoral) and Sacristan (liturgical/sacramental assistance to priest). But the widespread confusion, and the need for all hands on deck, means that will never happen. The clear boundaries are so often blurred.
What Such a time as this is saying, in admittedly somewhat orotund language, is that the deacon’s liturgical role – reading the Gospel, setting the table, singing the dismissal – is consequent upon the order’s pastoral and prophetic role. It was said that during the Bolshevik revolution the priests were sent to the gulags while the deacons went into the opera!
Phil Groves,
Are any of bishop Emily Onyango’s theological writings available in the UK. I would love to read some, to see her take on women’s issues in the Hebrew Scriptures, coming from her very different non-western context.
All the publications listed on-line are more to do with specific Kenyan pastoral and ecclesial issues.
Many thanks.
I am sorry Simon, due to the way the Anglican Communion published the Continuing Indaba essays they are no longer available. I share the blame for that. She is not the only voice who should be offered pathways to publishing.
I am just getting to a couple of articles here. Saw Simon Dawson commented on yours, so just reading it this morning. Very helpful piece. I’ve sent it around via direct link to ViaMedia.News to several friends. We’ve been long time active members of Mothers Union (Canada). I am also interested in what you write about Bishop Emily Onyango. I saw the news item you reference from BBC when it came out, and adverted to it in a comment here on a previous thread. But, I am not conversant with her work and would like to know more. Thanks again,… Read more »
Just getting to the Peter Crumpler piece in, Christian Today. Good article. Some things I was not aware of with regard to Archbishop Sarah Mullally. I like the pragmatic analysis behind the author’s optimism. His first point called to mind something I read from John Dewey: “All of the theories which put conversion ‘ of the eye of the soul’ in the place of a conversion of natural and social objects that modifies goods actually experienced, is a retreat and escape from existence–and this retraction into self is, once more, the heart of subjective egoisms. The typical example is perhaps… Read more »