The church desperately needs to have a conversation about a healthy nationalism (as I once wrote, ‘theology and patriotism have to come together again’) but we’ll never get there so long as ‘far-right’ is used as unreflectively as it is in Hensman’s article. Sadly, she’s very representative of the institution.
To me ‘far’ in reference to political movements refers to those which are ready to dismiss constitutional limitations and individual rights in the service of the Cause, Left, Right or Crazy. Which organisations fall under that definition is another matter. Others may prefer another definition but agreement on definition would help
Sam Norton. To describe a respected, veteran Christian writer and campaigner for minority rights, justice, inclusion and public policy as a ‘representative of the institution’ is plainly inaccurate, and actually disrespectful. You are concerned that language needs using with more care in this debate. You are illustrating the problem.
HI David – are you saying that the institution (of the CofE) does *not* campaign for ‘minority rights, justice, inclusion and public policy’ and against the ‘far-right’? that is the sense in which I am taking her as representative (not that justice, for example, is bad of course!)
No I am not, because I not think that is what your first comment was saying. I understood it the same way Savi Hensman herself did, judging by her response in the comments below.
i wasn’t aware of your blog until this morning – lots of good stuff there! I particularly like your analysis of fear. is it he other side of the English tendency towards compromise and reasonableness? I also loved your comment: What is the definition of a Deanery Synod? A collection of Anglicans waiting to go home. I have zero experience of any synod at any level, but I know i would find it extremely uncomfortable, I would be afraid of exploding. The same fear I have when in any company of reasonable people. I prefer a good expletive laden argument.… Read more »
I also find these broadbrush terms very unhelpful, ‘far left’ or ‘far right’. They tend to be used to identify those whom we disagree with most vehemently and of course, because they are broadbrush very often we do not know exactly what they mean – or they mean different things to different people. In this way the underlying dynamics of the discussion are masked, rolled up into prejudice or obfuscated. Is this a conversation which is simply felt to be too difficult? If so, then as always, care needs to be taken over the terms we use. We also need… Read more »
The commenting system used on TA has provision for a “like” button. It was briefly enabled, but although some readers liked it there was very considerable opposition and we disabled it.
As someone who knows the wards of Houston where George Floyd grew up, and have various friends there, I felt rather alienated by some expressions of ‘Black Pride’. which used the tragic incidents to fuel their own agendas,
Poverty and prejudice in Texas and elsewhere is extensive and lived every day. Easy solutions do not exist.
I agree that there should be far more taught, and shared, about British – including English – working class history (and going back further, peasant history) than is the case at present. Hence my point about a different approach to that suggested by Linda Colley and the value of remembering movements, sometimes requiring great courage and determination, which brought a range of people together ‘across diverse backgrounds, including empathy and solidarity in the quest for greater freedom, equity and democracy.’ I believe that different aspects of history and heritage can and should be celebrated in the course of a year.… Read more »
This is one of the finest examples of old school Tory right wing propoganda dressed up as reasonable with a smattering of theology sprinkled on top as a distraction from the undertones of nationalism and remarkable propoganda mutton dressed up as lamb. I see what you did here, did others? Nothing Christian here just PR spun for the right wing conservative element within Anglicanism. Nothing but inanity and a troubling undertone of bending theology towards the subtle tones of standard right wing racist classist propoganda. The subtlety of the right wing when provoked to defend its. Vapid nonsense in this… Read more »
Richie, I am not sure why I should reply to this at all. It is unusual in TA to find a post so abusive: “Right wing propaganda”. “Smattering of theology”. “Undertones of nationalism”. “Mutton dressed up as lamb”. “Nothing Christian”. “Standard right wing racist classist propaganda”. “Vapid nonsense”. If what I thought was a reasonable response to Savi Hensman’s piece results in such a diatribe of personal abuse then where can we go with civilised discussion? I am sorry you wrote what you did and surprised actually that the editors let it pass. There is a kind of person who… Read more »
Not sure if Richie is willing to learn. In general I find that people with whom I have strong disagreements still have something useful for me to learn, even if I do not agree. Hence why, for example, I engaged with Geoff on understanding what is meant by ‘scripture is without error’. It turned out he is (probably) not as close to US fundementalists as i (and others) feared.. I have close friends who despair about the home office and their ability to control immigration (they were immigration officers so know what they are talking about), yet admit they probably… Read more »
Here’s a technical question. If you have very wide prior beliefs, doesn’t a Bayesian analysis reduce to maximum likelihood? ie don’t you simply end up choosing the hypothesis that best predicts the data?
That’s not necessarily bad, but isn’t the interesting element of Bayes methods when a narrower range of prior beliefs affects the answer, along with the data?
Bayesian theology sounded like it should be a thing, so I looked it up and found that it is …
“Don’t get so trapped where if you’re a Republican, you got to be this way, if you’re Democrat, you got to be that way. You’re not allowed to think nothing else. Well, how crippling is that? I’ve got as many Democrats as I do Republicans as fans, and I’m not going to insult any of them because I care about all of them. I ain’t that good a Christian to think that I am so good that I can judge people. That’s God’s job, not mine. So as far as politics, I hate politics. Hate politics.”
Going back to your question, I think wide priors lead to a widening of hypotheses.=, but the widening may not be significant.
I use Bayesian approaches extensively in oil and gas reservoir uncertainty studies. What I have found is that prior beliefs on, say, porosity and permeability have little influence on posterior beliefs once there is significant production history.
It obvisouly is problem dependent. But prior beliefs should normally, IMHO, be somewhat wider than most imagine or realise. Political parties reinforce the notion of narrow priors. Christian groups (sect, denominations, movements) the same.
Hi Nigel, I think the editors let my little comment run because they too are bleakly aware of the height and depth of the infestation of right wing ideology in the Neo Con Evangelical wings of the church. Calling out right wing propoganda dressed up as theology is not an easy thing to do you need both an understanding of political spin doctoring and also an awareness of how the spun is done. You must admit that your post had all the standard red flags. Not backing down , I called you out on publishing thinly veiled right wing talking… Read more »
I think that has been cleared up, he wasn;t talking about me. I wish i did understand my intentions when posting! BTW it is my real name, I try never to post anything which might embarrass me. Concerning “I think Jesus is on the side of the Black women celebrating Black History month” I’m not so sure. I’m married into a Black family, and I don’t recall any talking about Black History month. I have Black friends in Houston, one is more concerned because she has not had any money to eat for a week, and has low blood pressure.… Read more »
I was referring to N Ashworth not N Goodwin. So the rest of your admonishment is thankfully moot. One hopes you don’t take to admonishing any members of your faith community like that .
Oh dear my reply was to Nigel Ashworth , not Nigel Goodwin who although asking if I was willing to learn did not write the comment I was responding to that of Nigel Ashworth.
BTW by ‘willing to learn’ I think I meant listening to those who might be labelled ‘far right’ and entering a dialogue from which both sides might learn.
Isn’t one of the impetuses for ‘far right’ the sense that they are not being listened to?
Sorry Ritchie, but this is still offensive. I would ask you to consider: ‘Propaganda’: I always think of that as some sort of official false information. I am a private individual who is trying to be truthful, as are others who post on here. How you think I have spun right wing propaganda is a mystery to me. Maybe for you anything which references a conservative viewpoint is anathema – in which case you are out of tune with a great deal of Christian political thought of the last few centuries. Incidentally, anyone who actually knows me could never describe… Read more »
Methinks the gentleman protests too much. You got sprung and yes the Telegraph is just as bad. I’m out mate the bill is in the Mail for your subscription. Perhaps be more aware that twisting theology into your own political machinations will likely draw some attention from your congregation Archdeacon and lead to difficulties.
I read your demos quote …. Selective statistics to bolster your argument .
Perhaps you should not keep making a fool of yourself in this space.
For me I will go back to reading some Dean Jonathon Swift .
You evade the matter under discussion and cannot counter anything I have said in a proper way If you think that the Demos research is inadequate please offer something which is evidential, eg some different research. Calling someone a fool and saying they twist theology whilst evading the issue yourself maybe sums you up. Jonathan Swift would have made light work of you.
Your not a fool just either sadly naive or you know exactly what you were doing when called out played ad hominem and semantics. Nigel you should cease and desist now. Your only digging a bigger hole for yourself. Perhaps now silence or walk away from the screen and go outside and enjoy Gods green earth. I am not going to engage with you any more. My point was made , and trying to end this with a bang is more like a whimper. You used theology to bolster your particular viewpoint. Just like the right wing do. Someone called… Read more »
I can’t see nationalism as being anything other than idolatrous for a Christian. Sam, knowing my theological interests, you might be interested to know that what used to be called the ‘General Conference Mennonite Church’ was a multinational denomination in North America. Some years ago now, it was split into two national bodies, ‘Mennonite Church Canada’ and ‘Mennonite Church USA’. I wasn’t connected to it at the time so don’t know the reasons for this move, but I have been told that there was vociferous objection in some quarters because defining a denomination along national lines was seen as a… Read more »
So since you view nationalism as idolatrous, I imagine you are fully on board with D Trump’s proposed rationalization of the governance of North America, by merging Canada and Greenland with the USA. There would be big efficiency savings administratively, and it would make North America easier to defend. Just possibly you are not in favour of the merger, and that might be due to factors like valuing Canadian culture, traditions and ecology, and reasoning that they will be better developed and enriched by an independent government of Canada than by a pan-national government of North America. That doesn’t make… Read more »
Perhaps instead of describing what I might believe or feel, you’d do better to start by asking me. ‘Gotcha’ moments are not very helpful. And anyway, Sam and I know each other, whereas I don’t even know your name.
It is! My point is that nationalism can be idolatrous, but isn’t intrinsically. Many things can become idols: a spouse, a career, a football club.They presumably become idols when we care more about them than God. That is linked to the question of what is ‘far right’? And how does it differ from ‘right’? What are the defining characteristics? My surmise is that rather than being a very obvious entity, the ‘far right’ begins with a heightened focus on very ordinary things. And so to counter an eventual threat from it, we may do better to look at what is… Read more »
Thank you for the question. In view of the news over the past few hours, this is a very relevant issue (for those who don’t know what I’m talking about, see this link). First, I don’t know why you think it’s a direct step to ‘I think nationalism is idolatry’ to ‘I want my country to disappear’. Surely there are a lot of in-between steps there. Second, Canada and the US are two very different countries. One is founded (at least in theory) of the fundamental individual rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; the other is founded… Read more »
Very thoughtful answer, appreciated. I suppose nationalist movements are understood within the historic arcs of their associated nations. So Irish and Scottish nationalism are typically viewed as good, English and British nationalism less so. Further afield, Palestinian nationalism is viewed positively, Russian nationalism not so much. In a nutshell, people support nations’ desires to exist, not to dominate. Which raises the specific context of Britain in the early 21st century. We have a long history of overseas interventions, but much less today. We also have a nexus of problems around education, culture, hope and economic performance. In short, we need… Read more »
“They went to a movie theatre, and everyone stood and sang the US national anthem before the movie.”
I guess I must move in different circles. I have never in my long life experienced this.
I’m not opposed, but like a lot of things (I spend a good deal of time in Canada) find anecdotes hard to parse on any large map. And the US is a large map. Just like Canada.
When people ask me what Canada is like, I say “I don’t know. I live in Toronto.”
‘When people ask me what Canada is like, I say “I don’t know. I live in Toronto.” ‘
A very good point. I live in Alberta, which is very unlike the rest of Canada, and I live in Edmonton (sometimes, inaccurately, known as ‘Redmonton’), which is very unlike the rest of Alberta
A most excellent point Tim. LOL! I did a presentation at General Synod 1998 in Montreal ( great world class city) on, Nation and Identity. Maritimers had to fight to get a place on the forum. T.O. had nothing to do with it, it was the Archbishop who was solicitous of the PQ in Quebec. https://archives.anglican.ca/link/official7124 Here is a great tune by Canadian Murray McLauchlan, who was born in Paisley, Scotland btw. Out on the Timber Line. As the book title suggests somewhat extravagantly, Scots invented Canada–well not really. lol. https://youtu.be/7ZB4um5a7AM?si=Zd9FsskODrgrfQ8M Bio for TA here fyi Murray McLauchlan | The… Read more »
I say that to Americans, because having traveled widely in Canada I am aware of the contrast of Toronto with places like Alberta (which is a lot more like the northern plains in the US) or the Maritimes (and Maine) or Vancouver (and the pacific NW.)
Re: The Maritimes and the great state of Maine, we just had a commemoration out on the Tantramar of the siege of Fort Cumberland– Beausejour by colonel Eddy for whom Eddington, Maine is named. “The day we almost became Americans.” The historian Ernest Clarke mentioned here is a good friend of mine and a practicing Anglican as it happens. Perhaps you have had opportunity to visit the site. https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/dfhd/page_nhs_eng.aspx?id=159&i=51469 https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-guardian-charlottetown/20260818/281487873184321?srsltid=AfmBOorTW7m3S2WIdmUaqgMlJQdR1d4XOqmQxTIv4UbvQ1X2LPzDjoIC https://www.micmacfarm.com/nova-scotia-the-lost-star-and-stripe/ Interesting to visit New England and see the similarities and differences with The Maritimes. Of course the migration of Maritimers and Quebecers to the ‘Boston States’ in days of… Read more »
I recall as a teenager going to a local (and, for the time, rather old-fashioned) cinema here in the the UK where we sang the national anthem at the end of the screening. I experienced that as quaint, and nothing worse.
As a Yank, I affirm your reasons for wanting to stay strictly Canadian, Tim!
[But was your daughter’s Christmas in Florida movie theater experience by any chance in 2001? Except for those days right after 9/11, it’s difficult to imagine such a demonstration. Then again, maybe it was Florida! Said JCF from California]
The problem is the redefinition of terms like ‘nationalism’ by bad actors. Similarly with words like colonization, imperialism, etc.
I hate to use the term, but maybe a bit more ‘reflection’ is needed when using these terms.
I remember an old friend, now economics prof at Harvard, he taught economic history to a group of Indian students, he extolled the benefits of empire to them, they did not like it one bit! He did it more as a matter of balance rather than conviction, he was very far from being ‘far right’.
I came across this last night from Joya Chatterji’s Shadows at Noon: “identity is fluid. ‘Peoples’ and ‘ethnicities’ do not have a singular character or quality; individuals are in a constant state of becoming. It is useful to remember this in our neo-nationalist and xenophobic times.”
I don’t know if the writer is a Christian (Chatterji is a Bengali Hindu name), but “individuals are in a constant state of becoming” is a deeply Christian insight.
Exactly. Trying to assign people to little boxes is deeply insulting.
Adrian Clarke
25 days ago
Post modern and post Christian English society is increasingly liberal and secular. Trying to rebuild institutions that have been dismantled over the last 60 years is like trying to rebuild and enforce the old temple system after exile. Rather than patching up the ‘old wineskin’, something new is needed. Unity, patched up with some nationally or locally enforced social liberal values (all are made in God’s image), is not enough. Elvis has left the building.
Maybe a little O/T here – or maybe not – but when I mentioned on this site a few months back that the hysteria over the ‘Indian Residential Schools’ in Canada had roiled Canada but NOT ONE GRAVE was ever found – I received huge pushback here – and reports to read – suggesting I was wrong. A commentator here from the Maritimes send me an official report. I read it all: not one grave identified. I think even you admonished me, Tim. Now we can read in Wikipedia – certainly a liberal watering hole – that NOT ONE GRAVE… Read more »
Language matters. I don’t know if you have ever talked to any Canadian residential schools survivors, James? I have. I’d be very, very careful about using the word ‘hysteria’.
As to what being made in God’s image entails, theologians have spilled a lot of ink over that one. I don’t intend to get into any debate over what it means; I was just somewhat surprised to see it described as a ‘liberal value.’
Tim, I am talking about truth telling. NOT ONE GRAVE found. A Christian should care about telling the truth and opposing false witness. As for hysteria: flags at half-mast for six months, churches burned, long denunciations of deaths that never happened – yes, I would call that hysteria. You know the adage about the fish not noticing the water it swims in. It was Ruairidh here who sent me the link to the report – lots of emotions, not a single grave.
Well my anonymous friend, you are referring to some exchanges between you and I on a TA thread from last December.. I see no need to react at this time to your regurgitation of your skewed views posted there. If anyone is really interested, and has the time and patience, they can rummage through the linked thread and review . My comments on the matter remain largely as posted at that time.
One more post and then I’m done discussing this with a person who has never talked to a single residential school survivor. My memory is that in the original thread, we were discussing the wider issue of Canadian ‘Indian’ (sic) residential schools, which is a huge issue in our country – stretching over centuries, with hundreds of thousands of children forcibly taken from their homes and families and compelled to attend schools where they were forbidden from speaking their own languages, dressing and wearing their hair in traditional ways, practising their own ceremonies and so on. The stated aim of… Read more »
Ir’s a Jewish-Christian truth, Tim, from which flows the dignity of man and our obligation to treat each other with that dignity, something I fail at with depressing regularity.
Adrian’s point ie perhaps that its profundity can be morphed into an easy-going acceptance of the rightness of everything. We have urgent work to do in Britain on the foundations of our society, and to extend Adrian’s analogy, It’s Now or Never.
I suggest that using Wikipedia is often a form of acedia. Despite the occasional mea culpa, It is a sin I try and avoid as much as possible. Try and do the work to find more reliable sources, or several sources with competing perspectives, or supplement the quick fix it provides with other sources.
Not surprising, the quick fix of tech interconnectivity. If you are interested in a really deep dive check out Josef Pieper’s, Leisure the Basis of Culture, Chapter II. : )
Quickly, in addition to referencing Josef Pieper, I’m an old school kind of guy. I would prefer e.g. a hard copy dictionary like, Liddell and Scott’s Greek English Lexicon which gives “heedless, careless” as third definition. Besides, where is the fun in Wikipedia, lol? But as far web searches with AI turned off, here are some other articles perhaps of interest. I’m like a kid in a candy shop with this kind of thing. lol. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_lost_greek_word_that_explains_our_pandemic_emotions https://catholicstand.com/the-overlooked-vice/ NB: Pieper has a nuanced approach compared to the view expressed in the 2nd article linked above. And this one is fun: (… Read more »
I don’t possess a mobile ‘phone! I suppose an iPad can be a similar alternative addiction.
i enjoyed your ‘fun’ link. I’m sure our late and sadly-missed friend and correspondent Stanley Monkhouse would have done. He said something not dissimilar, albeit in a different context.
Yes, sadly I only learned of her death this morning at the same time as the email from TA publishing my comment. Had I known, I would probably not have used Stanley’s article at this time. But it was in Stanley’s style to say something provocative to stimulate thought and reaction. Although it offended some people, invariably it did just that.
No, see it as synchronicity. I think Stanley’s closer there referencing Dolly Parton is a bit of tribute. From what I recall from an email he sent me, mentioned in passing at the time, his appreciation was not glib. I suspect if he were still with us, we would have heard something provocative and appreciative from him this morning on the subject of Ms. Parton. She was a committed humanitarian as the article indicates.
Dolly Parton has been a subject of conversation on TA before, and Stanley with an appreciative perspective about her was there. 6 years ago on TA Stanley commented: (link)
“I’ve always thought of Dolly as a practical theologian, and have said so many times from the pulpit. She comes to mind particularly when I hear Matthew 5:16 which I paraphrase “if you’ve got it, flaunt it”. She has, and she does. A truly great woman.”
“I don’t want to be controversial or stir up a bunch of trouble but people are going to love who they are going to love. I think gay couples should be allowed to marry. They should suffer just like us heterosexuals. Ha ha ha!”
LOL! I had a good thought for Stanley yesterday upon hearing the news that Dolly Parton has died. And could her song, nine to five, for the movie and about gender equality, contribute to a discussion of acedia?
Is the ‘if’ a mistake? I’m not sure what your sentence means. Do you mean a post-Christian society clings to the idea that humans are made in the image of God? I definitely live in a post-Christian society and I’ve only ever heard the idea mentioned by Christians and Jews. Where is your evidence that a post-Christian society is remotely interested in this verse? Read Genesis post the Fall – liberals struggle with this I must be peculiarly dense today; I don’t know what this sentence means. Do you mean that Genesis post the Fall is an example of how… Read more »
” is like trying to rebuild and enforce the old temple system after exile” Strange remark. Without the rebuilding of the old Temple system after the Exile we would have neither the Hebrew Bible, nor Judaism nor Christianity.
I am struggling to understand why Savi Hensman’s article has started this debate, or why some contributors could not understand her argument.As for the term ‘far right’ being used unreflectively, I suggest reading Rowan Williams’ article in the latest Humanist magazine.
‘Theology and patriotism have to come together again’ may sound like a good slogan or rallying cry but isn’t that the sort of rationale which has lead many a war which don’t look quite so holy in the cold light of history?
“Elvis has left the building.” I recall those TV adverts hocking merch after Elvis died, the visual included switching around the letters in Elvis: “ELVIS LIVES”. lol. Apparently, in some quarters he has not so much left the building as haunting it, and is still the guy to beat. lol. Elvis tends to go together with retro longings for things like burning fossil fuels, big automobiles, hocking merch, and lots of bling. lol! (see link) “Trump for years has played Presley’s music at his campaign rallies across the country and often compared himself to Presley. He was in Memphis for… Read more »
Savi Hensman
24 days ago
This is probably the first time in my 60-odd years, as a layperson who has never been employed by any church-related organisation, and has been critical of many aspects of the Church of England while valuing others, that I have been described as ‘very representative of’ the institution’ or ‘an existing institution person’! My definition of ‘far-right’ would be broadly similar to that of Hope not Hate, while some of the drawbacks of the growing impact of far-right politics is outlined in Francis Davis’ article linked to near the end of mine. To me, it is particularly disturbing that this… Read more »
I apologise if my initial response seemed to indicate I thought you were representative of the institution. Maybe I should explain, and be more specific. I was not commentating on your conclusions, I was more commenting on the fact that I didn’t know what the conclusions were, or what actions you suggest. i was looking for a 100 word summary or call to action. It was in this sense that I saw your style of writing as belonging to a particular ‘institution’. Erudite, stylish, educated, but maybe not presented in an easy way. I also worry about how ‘the institution’… Read more »
Maybe a simpler question – what can the church do, regarding the ‘far right’, which existing political organisations are not doing? Who will listen? Will the church be merely preaching to the choir?
As mentioned in the article, there will be suggestions on what can and should be done in part 2. I tend to write in different ways for different audiences. If I am drafting the text of a leaflet or poster for a community event which includes a range of people and groups in London interested in health and care, for example, I will use a different style, and assume they know different things, from largely Sri Lankan readers and others interested in Sri Lankan society who can easily follow written English. And regular Church of England churchgoers, however diverse, will… Read more »
I am sorry. When I read yours, from the tone and content of your post, I genuinely assumed that you were already (or could be) a bishop of the Church of England which, depending on your perspective, might be life’s greatest possible compliment. My apologies. I look forward to reading Part 2.
FWIW I think Nationalism is very close to racism. So, if someone were to say to me, “Are you proud to be British?” I’d answer, “No, but I am pleased to be British”. My reasons are that despite our failings, we have much to be pleased about: we were a big factor in dismantling slavery, we helped defeat fascism (I refuse to capitalise it) we have a sort of liberal democracy and we are tolerant of many things, so that Homosexuals, for example, are not likely to end up hanging from lamposts as they might in Iran, even though I… Read more »
Was Jesus proud to be a Jew? What did it mean when He wept over Jerusalem?
Francis James
21 days ago
Political Labels can be confusing. Time was that being a Vietnam War Draft-dodger made you a ‘commie-loving traitor’ (or worse) , but now it entitles you to be a right-wing super-patriot.
Jospeh
19 days ago
I came across this quote on a servette “One of satan’s greatest victories isn’t making people hate Jesus but making people believe it does not cost anything. Therefore, you can have a crossless Christ, repentance-free gospel. A saviour who comforts but never confronts will cost nothing. A nice fuzzy feeling” And I thought this is what plagues our church.
Nigel Goodwin
3 days ago
This may be relevant to Savi’s article. Also Sarah seems to be speaking up.
The church desperately needs to have a conversation about a healthy nationalism (as I once wrote, ‘theology and patriotism have to come together again’) but we’ll never get there so long as ‘far-right’ is used as unreflectively as it is in Hensman’s article. Sadly, she’s very representative of the institution.
seemed to me the same with Paul Avis – an existing institution person.
To be honest, having read it again, I cannot make head nor tail of what she is trying to say. Roughly the same with Paul Avis.
Pass the salt, please.
I think they try to join up some dots to create a new thing. Image of God, Being In Christ… Together for the Church of England does it all the time.
To me ‘far’ in reference to political movements refers to those which are ready to dismiss constitutional limitations and individual rights in the service of the Cause, Left, Right or Crazy. Which organisations fall under that definition is another matter. Others may prefer another definition but agreement on definition would help
Sam Norton. To describe a respected, veteran Christian writer and campaigner for minority rights, justice, inclusion and public policy as a ‘representative of the institution’ is plainly inaccurate, and actually disrespectful. You are concerned that language needs using with more care in this debate. You are illustrating the problem.
HI David – are you saying that the institution (of the CofE) does *not* campaign for ‘minority rights, justice, inclusion and public policy’ and against the ‘far-right’? that is the sense in which I am taking her as representative (not that justice, for example, is bad of course!)
No I am not, because I not think that is what your first comment was saying. I understood it the same way Savi Hensman herself did, judging by her response in the comments below.
A member of Together for the Church of England/Inclusive Church?
I have no idea what this question means
‘Are you or have you ever been…’
Is this to become an identity check in the Reform-ed Church of England I wonder?
Are you going to enlighten us by sharing the definitive definition of “far-right?”
i wasn’t aware of your blog until this morning – lots of good stuff there! I particularly like your analysis of fear. is it he other side of the English tendency towards compromise and reasonableness? I also loved your comment: What is the definition of a Deanery Synod? A collection of Anglicans waiting to go home. I have zero experience of any synod at any level, but I know i would find it extremely uncomfortable, I would be afraid of exploding. The same fear I have when in any company of reasonable people. I prefer a good expletive laden argument.… Read more »
I also find these broadbrush terms very unhelpful, ‘far left’ or ‘far right’. They tend to be used to identify those whom we disagree with most vehemently and of course, because they are broadbrush very often we do not know exactly what they mean – or they mean different things to different people. In this way the underlying dynamics of the discussion are masked, rolled up into prejudice or obfuscated. Is this a conversation which is simply felt to be too difficult? If so, then as always, care needs to be taken over the terms we use. We also need… Read more »
Just the sort of comment that makes me want a ‘like’ button…
Terrible idea, Fr. A ‘like’ button would make us all unbearable.
The commenting system used on TA has provision for a “like” button. It was briefly enabled, but although some readers liked it there was very considerable opposition and we disabled it.
As someone who knows the wards of Houston where George Floyd grew up, and have various friends there, I felt rather alienated by some expressions of ‘Black Pride’. which used the tragic incidents to fuel their own agendas,
Poverty and prejudice in Texas and elsewhere is extensive and lived every day. Easy solutions do not exist.
Did your dad write a book about it? I can’t remember.
not at all!
I agree that there should be far more taught, and shared, about British – including English – working class history (and going back further, peasant history) than is the case at present. Hence my point about a different approach to that suggested by Linda Colley and the value of remembering movements, sometimes requiring great courage and determination, which brought a range of people together ‘across diverse backgrounds, including empathy and solidarity in the quest for greater freedom, equity and democracy.’ I believe that different aspects of history and heritage can and should be celebrated in the course of a year.… Read more »
This is one of the finest examples of old school Tory right wing propoganda dressed up as reasonable with a smattering of theology sprinkled on top as a distraction from the undertones of nationalism and remarkable propoganda mutton dressed up as lamb. I see what you did here, did others? Nothing Christian here just PR spun for the right wing conservative element within Anglicanism. Nothing but inanity and a troubling undertone of bending theology towards the subtle tones of standard right wing racist classist propoganda. The subtlety of the right wing when provoked to defend its. Vapid nonsense in this… Read more »
Say what?
Richie, I am not sure why I should reply to this at all. It is unusual in TA to find a post so abusive: “Right wing propaganda”. “Smattering of theology”. “Undertones of nationalism”. “Mutton dressed up as lamb”. “Nothing Christian”. “Standard right wing racist classist propaganda”. “Vapid nonsense”. If what I thought was a reasonable response to Savi Hensman’s piece results in such a diatribe of personal abuse then where can we go with civilised discussion? I am sorry you wrote what you did and surprised actually that the editors let it pass. There is a kind of person who… Read more »
Not sure if Richie is willing to learn. In general I find that people with whom I have strong disagreements still have something useful for me to learn, even if I do not agree. Hence why, for example, I engaged with Geoff on understanding what is meant by ‘scripture is without error’. It turned out he is (probably) not as close to US fundementalists as i (and others) feared.. I have close friends who despair about the home office and their ability to control immigration (they were immigration officers so know what they are talking about), yet admit they probably… Read more »
Here’s a technical question. If you have very wide prior beliefs, doesn’t a Bayesian analysis reduce to maximum likelihood? ie don’t you simply end up choosing the hypothesis that best predicts the data?
That’s not necessarily bad, but isn’t the interesting element of Bayes methods when a narrower range of prior beliefs affects the answer, along with the data?
Bayesian theology sounded like it should be a thing, so I looked it up and found that it is …
https://mbird.com/theology/bayesian-theology-or-how-i-learned-to-loosen-a-doctrinal-death-grip-and-love-statistical-thinking/
I am on mourning.
“Don’t get so trapped where if you’re a Republican, you got to be this way, if you’re Democrat, you got to be that way. You’re not allowed to think nothing else. Well, how crippling is that? I’ve got as many Democrats as I do Republicans as fans, and I’m not going to insult any of them because I care about all of them. I ain’t that good a Christian to think that I am so good that I can judge people. That’s God’s job, not mine. So as far as politics, I hate politics. Hate politics.”
So on their first date they were discussing theology?
I thought God implanted desire was meant to lead to marriage.
My own marriage started with rampant desire.
On other issues, this interview is illuminating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgclGi8yEu4
Some of my own work has continued O’hagans work.
Thanks rerum, wonderful response
Going back to your question, I think wide priors lead to a widening of hypotheses.=, but the widening may not be significant.
I use Bayesian approaches extensively in oil and gas reservoir uncertainty studies. What I have found is that prior beliefs on, say, porosity and permeability have little influence on posterior beliefs once there is significant production history.
It obvisouly is problem dependent. But prior beliefs should normally, IMHO, be somewhat wider than most imagine or realise. Political parties reinforce the notion of narrow priors. Christian groups (sect, denominations, movements) the same.
Hi Nigel, I think the editors let my little comment run because they too are bleakly aware of the height and depth of the infestation of right wing ideology in the Neo Con Evangelical wings of the church. Calling out right wing propoganda dressed up as theology is not an easy thing to do you need both an understanding of political spin doctoring and also an awareness of how the spun is done. You must admit that your post had all the standard red flags. Not backing down , I called you out on publishing thinly veiled right wing talking… Read more »
Richie, you have not “called out” anything. You have not identified “dark forces”
You have not done anything difficult and important based on your deep understanding of spin.
You need to listen to other people. The person who understands his intention when posting as Nigel Goodwin – is Nigel Goodwin.
You have entirely mis understood his meaning.
You have invented a bizarre conspiracy theory which obviously has absolutely no connection to anything that Goodwin is actually saying.
I think that has been cleared up, he wasn;t talking about me. I wish i did understand my intentions when posting! BTW it is my real name, I try never to post anything which might embarrass me. Concerning “I think Jesus is on the side of the Black women celebrating Black History month” I’m not so sure. I’m married into a Black family, and I don’t recall any talking about Black History month. I have Black friends in Houston, one is more concerned because she has not had any money to eat for a week, and has low blood pressure.… Read more »
Peter.
I was referring to N Ashworth not N Goodwin. So the rest of your admonishment is thankfully moot. One hopes you don’t take to admonishing any members of your faith community like that .
Ashworth no more deserves your conspiracy theory screed than Goodwin.
Oh dear my reply was to Nigel Ashworth , not Nigel Goodwin who although asking if I was willing to learn did not write the comment I was responding to that of Nigel Ashworth.
Ashworth is no more mired in conspiracy than Goodwin.
Peter. stop this .n
BTW by ‘willing to learn’ I think I meant listening to those who might be labelled ‘far right’ and entering a dialogue from which both sides might learn.
Isn’t one of the impetuses for ‘far right’ the sense that they are not being listened to?
When we stop learning, we stop living.
Sorry Ritchie, but this is still offensive. I would ask you to consider: ‘Propaganda’: I always think of that as some sort of official false information. I am a private individual who is trying to be truthful, as are others who post on here. How you think I have spun right wing propaganda is a mystery to me. Maybe for you anything which references a conservative viewpoint is anathema – in which case you are out of tune with a great deal of Christian political thought of the last few centuries. Incidentally, anyone who actually knows me could never describe… Read more »
Methinks the gentleman protests too much. You got sprung and yes the Telegraph is just as bad. I’m out mate the bill is in the Mail for your subscription. Perhaps be more aware that twisting theology into your own political machinations will likely draw some attention from your congregation Archdeacon and lead to difficulties.
I read your demos quote …. Selective statistics to bolster your argument .
Perhaps you should not keep making a fool of yourself in this space.
For me I will go back to reading some Dean Jonathon Swift .
pax Brother
You evade the matter under discussion and cannot counter anything I have said in a proper way If you think that the Demos research is inadequate please offer something which is evidential, eg some different research. Calling someone a fool and saying they twist theology whilst evading the issue yourself maybe sums you up. Jonathan Swift would have made light work of you.
Your not a fool just either sadly naive or you know exactly what you were doing when called out played ad hominem and semantics. Nigel you should cease and desist now. Your only digging a bigger hole for yourself. Perhaps now silence or walk away from the screen and go outside and enjoy Gods green earth. I am not going to engage with you any more. My point was made , and trying to end this with a bang is more like a whimper. You used theology to bolster your particular viewpoint. Just like the right wing do. Someone called… Read more »
All this back & forth over the above? Seemed pretty straight forward—and accurate!—to me.
I can’t see nationalism as being anything other than idolatrous for a Christian. Sam, knowing my theological interests, you might be interested to know that what used to be called the ‘General Conference Mennonite Church’ was a multinational denomination in North America. Some years ago now, it was split into two national bodies, ‘Mennonite Church Canada’ and ‘Mennonite Church USA’. I wasn’t connected to it at the time so don’t know the reasons for this move, but I have been told that there was vociferous objection in some quarters because defining a denomination along national lines was seen as a… Read more »
So since you view nationalism as idolatrous, I imagine you are fully on board with D Trump’s proposed rationalization of the governance of North America, by merging Canada and Greenland with the USA. There would be big efficiency savings administratively, and it would make North America easier to defend. Just possibly you are not in favour of the merger, and that might be due to factors like valuing Canadian culture, traditions and ecology, and reasoning that they will be better developed and enriched by an independent government of Canada than by a pan-national government of North America. That doesn’t make… Read more »
Perhaps instead of describing what I might believe or feel, you’d do better to start by asking me. ‘Gotcha’ moments are not very helpful. And anyway, Sam and I know each other, whereas I don’t even know your name.
It is John
It is! My point is that nationalism can be idolatrous, but isn’t intrinsically. Many things can become idols: a spouse, a career, a football club.They presumably become idols when we care more about them than God. That is linked to the question of what is ‘far right’? And how does it differ from ‘right’? What are the defining characteristics? My surmise is that rather than being a very obvious entity, the ‘far right’ begins with a heightened focus on very ordinary things. And so to counter an eventual threat from it, we may do better to look at what is… Read more »
So do you Trump to take over Canada then?
Thank you for the question. In view of the news over the past few hours, this is a very relevant issue (for those who don’t know what I’m talking about, see this link). First, I don’t know why you think it’s a direct step to ‘I think nationalism is idolatry’ to ‘I want my country to disappear’. Surely there are a lot of in-between steps there. Second, Canada and the US are two very different countries. One is founded (at least in theory) of the fundamental individual rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; the other is founded… Read more »
Very thoughtful answer, appreciated. I suppose nationalist movements are understood within the historic arcs of their associated nations. So Irish and Scottish nationalism are typically viewed as good, English and British nationalism less so. Further afield, Palestinian nationalism is viewed positively, Russian nationalism not so much. In a nutshell, people support nations’ desires to exist, not to dominate. Which raises the specific context of Britain in the early 21st century. We have a long history of overseas interventions, but much less today. We also have a nexus of problems around education, culture, hope and economic performance. In short, we need… Read more »
“They went to a movie theatre, and everyone stood and sang the US national anthem before the movie.”
I guess I must move in different circles. I have never in my long life experienced this.
I’m not opposed, but like a lot of things (I spend a good deal of time in Canada) find anecdotes hard to parse on any large map. And the US is a large map. Just like Canada.
When people ask me what Canada is like, I say “I don’t know. I live in Toronto.”
Goes both ways.
‘When people ask me what Canada is like, I say “I don’t know. I live in Toronto.” ‘
A very good point. I live in Alberta, which is very unlike the rest of Canada, and I live in Edmonton (sometimes, inaccurately, known as ‘Redmonton’), which is very unlike the rest of Alberta
A most excellent point Tim. LOL! I did a presentation at General Synod 1998 in Montreal ( great world class city) on, Nation and Identity. Maritimers had to fight to get a place on the forum. T.O. had nothing to do with it, it was the Archbishop who was solicitous of the PQ in Quebec. https://archives.anglican.ca/link/official7124 Here is a great tune by Canadian Murray McLauchlan, who was born in Paisley, Scotland btw. Out on the Timber Line. As the book title suggests somewhat extravagantly, Scots invented Canada–well not really. lol. https://youtu.be/7ZB4um5a7AM?si=Zd9FsskODrgrfQ8M Bio for TA here fyi Murray McLauchlan | The… Read more »
I say that to Americans, because having traveled widely in Canada I am aware of the contrast of Toronto with places like Alberta (which is a lot more like the northern plains in the US) or the Maritimes (and Maine) or Vancouver (and the pacific NW.)
Re: The Maritimes and the great state of Maine, we just had a commemoration out on the Tantramar of the siege of Fort Cumberland– Beausejour by colonel Eddy for whom Eddington, Maine is named. “The day we almost became Americans.” The historian Ernest Clarke mentioned here is a good friend of mine and a practicing Anglican as it happens. Perhaps you have had opportunity to visit the site. https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/dfhd/page_nhs_eng.aspx?id=159&i=51469 https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-guardian-charlottetown/20260818/281487873184321?srsltid=AfmBOorTW7m3S2WIdmUaqgMlJQdR1d4XOqmQxTIv4UbvQ1X2LPzDjoIC https://www.micmacfarm.com/nova-scotia-the-lost-star-and-stripe/ Interesting to visit New England and see the similarities and differences with The Maritimes. Of course the migration of Maritimers and Quebecers to the ‘Boston States’ in days of… Read more »
I recall as a teenager going to a local (and, for the time, rather old-fashioned) cinema here in the the UK where we sang the national anthem at the end of the screening. I experienced that as quaint, and nothing worse.
I too recall ‘back in the day’ the national anthem, for which people stood, was preceded by a rush for the cinema exits while the film credits rolled.
Great.
As a Yank, I affirm your reasons for wanting to stay strictly Canadian, Tim!
[But was your daughter’s Christmas in Florida movie theater experience by any chance in 2001? Except for those days right after 9/11, it’s difficult to imagine such a demonstration. Then again, maybe it was Florida! Said JCF from California]
The problem is the redefinition of terms like ‘nationalism’ by bad actors. Similarly with words like colonization, imperialism, etc.
I hate to use the term, but maybe a bit more ‘reflection’ is needed when using these terms.
I remember an old friend, now economics prof at Harvard, he taught economic history to a group of Indian students, he extolled the benefits of empire to them, they did not like it one bit! He did it more as a matter of balance rather than conviction, he was very far from being ‘far right’.
He has insightful views on economic nationalism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edNh2nbt0Ho
Just listening to another of his podcasts, he has strong views on tax and inequality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXhhtrd-QQs
I came across this last night from Joya Chatterji’s Shadows at Noon: “identity is fluid. ‘Peoples’ and ‘ethnicities’ do not have a singular character or quality; individuals are in a constant state of becoming. It is useful to remember this in our neo-nationalist and xenophobic times.”
I don’t know if the writer is a Christian (Chatterji is a Bengali Hindu name), but “individuals are in a constant state of becoming” is a deeply Christian insight.
Exactly. Trying to assign people to little boxes is deeply insulting.
Post modern and post Christian English society is increasingly liberal and secular. Trying to rebuild institutions that have been dismantled over the last 60 years is like trying to rebuild and enforce the old temple system after exile. Rather than patching up the ‘old wineskin’, something new is needed. Unity, patched up with some nationally or locally enforced social liberal values (all are made in God’s image), is not enough. Elvis has left the building.
If ‘all are made in God’s image’ is a ‘liberal value,’ then I’m happy to stand as a liberal beside the authors of Genesis.
Maybe a little O/T here – or maybe not – but when I mentioned on this site a few months back that the hysteria over the ‘Indian Residential Schools’ in Canada had roiled Canada but NOT ONE GRAVE was ever found – I received huge pushback here – and reports to read – suggesting I was wrong. A commentator here from the Maritimes send me an official report. I read it all: not one grave identified. I think even you admonished me, Tim. Now we can read in Wikipedia – certainly a liberal watering hole – that NOT ONE GRAVE… Read more »
Language matters. I don’t know if you have ever talked to any Canadian residential schools survivors, James? I have. I’d be very, very careful about using the word ‘hysteria’.
As to what being made in God’s image entails, theologians have spilled a lot of ink over that one. I don’t intend to get into any debate over what it means; I was just somewhat surprised to see it described as a ‘liberal value.’
Tim, I am talking about truth telling. NOT ONE GRAVE found. A Christian should care about telling the truth and opposing false witness. As for hysteria: flags at half-mast for six months, churches burned, long denunciations of deaths that never happened – yes, I would call that hysteria. You know the adage about the fish not noticing the water it swims in. It was Ruairidh here who sent me the link to the report – lots of emotions, not a single grave.
Well my anonymous friend, you are referring to some exchanges between you and I on a TA thread from last December.. I see no need to react at this time to your regurgitation of your skewed views posted there. If anyone is really interested, and has the time and patience, they can rummage through the linked thread and review . My comments on the matter remain largely as posted at that time.
https://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/opinion-24-december-2025/
One more post and then I’m done discussing this with a person who has never talked to a single residential school survivor. My memory is that in the original thread, we were discussing the wider issue of Canadian ‘Indian’ (sic) residential schools, which is a huge issue in our country – stretching over centuries, with hundreds of thousands of children forcibly taken from their homes and families and compelled to attend schools where they were forbidden from speaking their own languages, dressing and wearing their hair in traditional ways, practising their own ceremonies and so on. The stated aim of… Read more »
Ir’s a Jewish-Christian truth, Tim, from which flows the dignity of man and our obligation to treat each other with that dignity, something I fail at with depressing regularity.
Adrian’s point ie perhaps that its profundity can be morphed into an easy-going acceptance of the rightness of everything. We have urgent work to do in Britain on the foundations of our society, and to extend Adrian’s analogy, It’s Now or Never.
James, I don’t think there has ever been an excavation at Kamloops yet has there?
What is the conservative equivalent of wikipedia? Is there one?
I suggest that using Wikipedia is often a form of acedia. Despite the occasional mea culpa, It is a sin I try and avoid as much as possible. Try and do the work to find more reliable sources, or several sources with competing perspectives, or supplement the quick fix it provides with other sources.
https://usingsources.fas.harvard.edu/what%E2%80%99s-wrong-wikipedia
My iPad has an instant ‘look-up’ facility and when I highlighted acedia paradoxically it took me – immediately – to Wikipedia!
Not surprising, the quick fix of tech interconnectivity. If you are interested in a really deep dive check out Josef Pieper’s, Leisure the Basis of Culture, Chapter II. : )
Quickly, in addition to referencing Josef Pieper, I’m an old school kind of guy. I would prefer e.g. a hard copy dictionary like, Liddell and Scott’s Greek English Lexicon which gives “heedless, careless” as third definition. Besides, where is the fun in Wikipedia, lol? But as far web searches with AI turned off, here are some other articles perhaps of interest. I’m like a kid in a candy shop with this kind of thing. lol. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_lost_greek_word_that_explains_our_pandemic_emotions https://catholicstand.com/the-overlooked-vice/ NB: Pieper has a nuanced approach compared to the view expressed in the 2nd article linked above. And this one is fun: (… Read more »
I don’t possess a mobile ‘phone! I suppose an iPad can be a similar alternative addiction.
i enjoyed your ‘fun’ link. I’m sure our late and sadly-missed friend and correspondent Stanley Monkhouse would have done. He said something not dissimilar, albeit in a different context.
https://ramblingrector.me/2023/04/27/struggle/
And blow me, Rowland, Stanley ends with quote from Dolly Parton!
Yes, sadly I only learned of her death this morning at the same time as the email from TA publishing my comment. Had I known, I would probably not have used Stanley’s article at this time. But it was in Stanley’s style to say something provocative to stimulate thought and reaction. Although it offended some people, invariably it did just that.
No, see it as synchronicity. I think Stanley’s closer there referencing Dolly Parton is a bit of tribute. From what I recall from an email he sent me, mentioned in passing at the time, his appreciation was not glib. I suspect if he were still with us, we would have heard something provocative and appreciative from him this morning on the subject of Ms. Parton. She was a committed humanitarian as the article indicates.
Dolly Parton has been a subject of conversation on TA before, and Stanley with an appreciative perspective about her was there. 6 years ago on TA Stanley commented: (link)
“I’ve always thought of Dolly as a practical theologian, and have said so many times from the pulpit. She comes to mind particularly when I hear Matthew 5:16 which I paraphrase “if you’ve got it, flaunt it”. She has, and she does. A truly great woman.”
https://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/opinion-21-march-2020/
So a posthumous tribute for Dolly from Stanley appropriate to the ocassion.
“I don’t want to be controversial or stir up a bunch of trouble but people are going to love who they are going to love. I think gay couples should be allowed to marry. They should suffer just like us heterosexuals. Ha ha ha!”
LOL! I had a good thought for Stanley yesterday upon hearing the news that Dolly Parton has died. And could her song, nine to five, for the movie and about gender equality, contribute to a discussion of acedia?
https://genius.com/Dolly-parton-9-to-5-lyrics#:~:text=%E2%80%9C9%20to%205%E2%80%9D%20was%20the,Jane%20Fonda%20and%20Lily%20Tomlin.
Little doubt he would have weighed in redoubtably on the addiction angle. See my reply to Mike Nash.
It’s part of the wreckage if a post Christian society clings to, (Read Genesis post the Fall – liberals struggle with this).
Is the ‘if’ a mistake? I’m not sure what your sentence means. Do you mean a post-Christian society clings to the idea that humans are made in the image of God? I definitely live in a post-Christian society and I’ve only ever heard the idea mentioned by Christians and Jews. Where is your evidence that a post-Christian society is remotely interested in this verse? Read Genesis post the Fall – liberals struggle with this I must be peculiarly dense today; I don’t know what this sentence means. Do you mean that Genesis post the Fall is an example of how… Read more »
” is like trying to rebuild and enforce the old temple system after exile” Strange remark. Without the rebuilding of the old Temple system after the Exile we would have neither the Hebrew Bible, nor Judaism nor Christianity.
I am struggling to understand why Savi Hensman’s article has started this debate, or why some contributors could not understand her argument.As for the term ‘far right’ being used unreflectively, I suggest reading Rowan Williams’ article in the latest Humanist magazine.
‘Theology and patriotism have to come together again’ may sound like a good slogan or rallying cry but isn’t that the sort of rationale which has lead many a war which don’t look quite so holy in the cold light of history?
I completely agree with you.
“Elvis has left the building.” I recall those TV adverts hocking merch after Elvis died, the visual included switching around the letters in Elvis: “ELVIS LIVES”. lol. Apparently, in some quarters he has not so much left the building as haunting it, and is still the guy to beat. lol. Elvis tends to go together with retro longings for things like burning fossil fuels, big automobiles, hocking merch, and lots of bling. lol! (see link) “Trump for years has played Presley’s music at his campaign rallies across the country and often compared himself to Presley. He was in Memphis for… Read more »
This is probably the first time in my 60-odd years, as a layperson who has never been employed by any church-related organisation, and has been critical of many aspects of the Church of England while valuing others, that I have been described as ‘very representative of’ the institution’ or ‘an existing institution person’! My definition of ‘far-right’ would be broadly similar to that of Hope not Hate, while some of the drawbacks of the growing impact of far-right politics is outlined in Francis Davis’ article linked to near the end of mine. To me, it is particularly disturbing that this… Read more »
I apologise if my initial response seemed to indicate I thought you were representative of the institution. Maybe I should explain, and be more specific. I was not commentating on your conclusions, I was more commenting on the fact that I didn’t know what the conclusions were, or what actions you suggest. i was looking for a 100 word summary or call to action. It was in this sense that I saw your style of writing as belonging to a particular ‘institution’. Erudite, stylish, educated, but maybe not presented in an easy way. I also worry about how ‘the institution’… Read more »
Maybe a simpler question – what can the church do, regarding the ‘far right’, which existing political organisations are not doing? Who will listen? Will the church be merely preaching to the choir?
As mentioned in the article, there will be suggestions on what can and should be done in part 2. I tend to write in different ways for different audiences. If I am drafting the text of a leaflet or poster for a community event which includes a range of people and groups in London interested in health and care, for example, I will use a different style, and assume they know different things, from largely Sri Lankan readers and others interested in Sri Lankan society who can easily follow written English. And regular Church of England churchgoers, however diverse, will… Read more »
i look forward.
I am sorry. When I read yours, from the tone and content of your post, I genuinely assumed that you were already (or could be) a bishop of the Church of England which, depending on your perspective, might be life’s greatest possible compliment. My apologies. I look forward to reading Part 2.
Thanks. For many reasons, I very much doubt I would ever have had the chance of becoming a CofE bishop, for which I am grateful!
More’s the pity Savi !
Indeed!
FWIW I think Nationalism is very close to racism. So, if someone were to say to me, “Are you proud to be British?” I’d answer, “No, but I am pleased to be British”. My reasons are that despite our failings, we have much to be pleased about: we were a big factor in dismantling slavery, we helped defeat fascism (I refuse to capitalise it) we have a sort of liberal democracy and we are tolerant of many things, so that Homosexuals, for example, are not likely to end up hanging from lamposts as they might in Iran, even though I… Read more »
Was Jesus proud to be a Jew? What did it mean when He wept over Jerusalem?
Political Labels can be confusing. Time was that being a Vietnam War Draft-dodger made you a ‘commie-loving traitor’ (or worse) , but now it entitles you to be a right-wing super-patriot.
I came across this quote on a servette
“One of satan’s greatest victories isn’t making people hate Jesus but making people believe it does not cost anything. Therefore, you can have a crossless Christ, repentance-free gospel. A saviour who comforts but never confronts will cost nothing. A nice fuzzy feeling”
And I thought this is what plagues our church.
This may be relevant to Savi’s article. Also Sarah seems to be speaking up.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/10/fascism-on-the-rise-in-the-uk-anglican-bishop-says