As someone who saw domestic abuse by my father towards my mother for 35 years until he died I have mixed feelings about why it didnt get stopped or whether it was patriarchal attitudes. My father was a church minister and it was well known by the church we attended that it was going on. The policeman next door must have heard what went on and the schools we attended were alerted. As children I was least affected but my sisters never led meaningful lives because of the trauma. It needs to be seriously addressed and children believed when they… Read more »
This had occurred to me also – there is an unfortunate tendency in society generally to overlook female on male abuse, and a fascinating video study (available somewhere on YouTube) had two actors stage a ‘domestic’ in public – when the male attacked the female, people rushed in to intervene, but when roles were reversed, the response went from indifference, through laughter, filming and ridicule, through to one member of the crowd joining in with the staged assault. That being as it may, it would be enlightening to now whether that 2:1 gender ratio is maintained in Church circles, or… Read more »
Sorry Adrian your statistics are false. What agenda are you pushing ? The Australian study into Anglican DV showed a huge increased risk in Evangelical and High control Anglo Catholic sects such as Forward in Faith and other groups like those surrounding Walsingham and such who forbid women’s ordination. The Anglican Churches data showed that DV was higher in Churches than in secular relationships. I am not saying that male – male DV and female to male DV or female to female DV isn’t statistically important but the stats in Australia are more 90 – 10%. Such a throw down… Read more »
I have seen several reports of UK studies which support the 2:1 ratio Adrian mentions (eg “The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) year ending March 2023 shows the following trends. An estimated 1.4 million women and 751,000 men aged 16 years and over experienced domestic abuse in the last year; a prevalence rate of approximately 5.7% of women and 3.2% of men)” https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023 It could be that societal differences between the UK and Australia (eg the widely-reported sexist/misogynistic behaviour of some Australian politicians suggests that there are some significant differences between what wider Antipodean society regards as ‘normal’… Read more »
This is quite puzzling. I am not saying it is wrong. Walsingham is rather a long way from Australia, and I really wonder how many F in F people there are in Australia. I expect the numbers are vanishingly few.
Yes, Walsingham is an awfully long way from Australia. St Peter’s Eastern Hill in Melbourne had a Walsingham Cell at one time. I don’t know whether it still has. That church is not more than 20 minutes in a car from Christ Church Brunswick, where Lindsay Urwin used to be vicar. I recall in 2018 attending a Saturday morning event at Christ Church St Laurence, which was led by Lindsay. I am fairly sure that that was Walsingham focused.
Can we perhaps have some reference that will enable us to locate this Australian study? It’s no good talking about false statistics and then providing unsubstantiated allegations. I rather suspect that it is Richie who is pushing an agenda – a wholly obvious agenda.
I was thinking less of the actual abuser, than of the writer’s church colleagues who failed to support her. And I wonder if they failed to support her due to unconscious patriarchal attitudes. “my Christian peers didn’t “get” my experience of domestic abuse. I was told to repent of my own part in the abuse, urged to drop the charges against my husband, and made to feel less like an equal and valuable member of my church, and more like a project, a failure, and someone to be pitied, or worse: judged. . . . . .All victims of abuse… Read more »
This is really a comment on several posts. The tendency, slithering into view here, to take sides on women are abused/ men are abused is unacceptable. Both are appalling and we need to recognise that our assumptions about appropriate behaviour are contributing to the damage. Statistics about who abuses whom are more important than the crime? Come on. Who are we rejecting with our pursuit of numbers? Abuse is abuse.
Statistics are important, for example, domestic violence is a gendered crime with more women affected by men, once aware of this (and society has been for many, many, many years) then we all should be discussing this to work out what we all need to do to affect change. The stats that – one woman is murdered every 4 days by a current or former partner is also vital information, that isn’t an irrelevant figure, it is murder, and details can be found in the news almost every day. The statistic that more women are murdered after they leave an… Read more »
I agree with you on the importance of statistics, but I was troubled by the possibility that the pursuit and deployment of statistics in some comments could be seen as diminishing the experience of one category of victim.
Pam Wilkinson
20 days ago
The response Sally received from her Church (repent, drop the charges) was indeed cruel. And her recovery, equipping her to build a programme to help other women, a cause for rejoicing and admiration. She asked why God had given her friends at church what she desired (a happy marriage) when she “had been given a husband who would spend our 13-year marriage abusing me and my children? I find this a troubling question. Reminds me of a woman who told me she had “lost her faith” when she’d lost a beloved child to cancer and wanted nothing more to do with a… Read more »
David James
19 days ago
I understand the context of ‘keeping the show on the road’, but no mention of spouses, partners, families, friends and a plethora of activities, groups, interests etc where we can get involved and just be ourselves. As far as the first few mentioned are concerned, we also have a vocation to be a wife, husband, father, grandparent etc and it may be something we’ve neglected somewhat in our paid roles. As for the latter, we’re still priests, and the richness of life is there to be explored.
Phoenix
19 days ago
” In the vast majority of cases, domestic abuse is experienced by women and perpetrated by men. A woman is killed by her male partner or former partner every four days in the UK England and Wales. In the year ending March 2023, data supplied from 28 police forces showed that the victim was female in 73.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes recorded by the police compared with 26.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes where the victim was male (ONS,2023a)”. Ref: womensaid.org.uk
Phoenix
19 days ago
“Today’s ONS data confirms that male violence against women and girls (VAWG) remains at horrifically high levels with around 1.6 million women experiencing domestic abuse in the year ending March 2024.However, these figures are likely to represent the tip of the iceberg as VAWG remains severely under-reported, and police have changed their recording practices [ ] “While people of all genders experience domestic abuse, the new figures show that the victim was female in 72.5% of domestic-abuse related crimes, while 64.5% of victims in domestic homicides were women” Ref: refuge.org.uk
Pam Wilkinson
18 days ago
A cursory look at the scholarly articles on the subject of domestic abuse suggests that many of the male victims are in homosexual relationships.
David Hawkins
17 days ago
Far too often the Church of England doesn’t take abuse seriously. That has certainly been my personal experience in the Diocese in Europe. Victims need pastoral care and far too often pastoral care is in very short supply. Are we ordaining the right people as bishops and priests ?
I strongly recommend this chilling documentary.
Sally Hope has written an excellent article on the dark shadow of domestic abuse.
Women are too often expected to suffer in silence and a much wider and tougher discussion is needed on the subject.
On this matter, it seems to me that all of us – whatever our theological position – can and must work together.
Helen King is to be thanked for calling us to face these issues.
Peter
Is this another issue where it can be argued that unconscious patriarchal assumptions and values within the church are causing damage to many women?
Men who abuse women are engaging in evil.
If you wish to use other vocabulary that is your prerogative
More accurately all perpetrators of domestic abuse are engaging in evil. For every 3 cases of domestic abuse 2 are against women and 1 against men.
As someone who saw domestic abuse by my father towards my mother for 35 years until he died I have mixed feelings about why it didnt get stopped or whether it was patriarchal attitudes. My father was a church minister and it was well known by the church we attended that it was going on. The policeman next door must have heard what went on and the schools we attended were alerted. As children I was least affected but my sisters never led meaningful lives because of the trauma. It needs to be seriously addressed and children believed when they… Read more »
This had occurred to me also – there is an unfortunate tendency in society generally to overlook female on male abuse, and a fascinating video study (available somewhere on YouTube) had two actors stage a ‘domestic’ in public – when the male attacked the female, people rushed in to intervene, but when roles were reversed, the response went from indifference, through laughter, filming and ridicule, through to one member of the crowd joining in with the staged assault. That being as it may, it would be enlightening to now whether that 2:1 gender ratio is maintained in Church circles, or… Read more »
You have entirely missed the point of the article by Sally Hope.
You have turned the discussion towards the issue of attitudes towards men
Sorry Adrian your statistics are false. What agenda are you pushing ? The Australian study into Anglican DV showed a huge increased risk in Evangelical and High control Anglo Catholic sects such as Forward in Faith and other groups like those surrounding Walsingham and such who forbid women’s ordination. The Anglican Churches data showed that DV was higher in Churches than in secular relationships. I am not saying that male – male DV and female to male DV or female to female DV isn’t statistically important but the stats in Australia are more 90 – 10%. Such a throw down… Read more »
I have seen several reports of UK studies which support the 2:1 ratio Adrian mentions (eg “The Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) year ending March 2023 shows the following trends. An estimated 1.4 million women and 751,000 men aged 16 years and over experienced domestic abuse in the last year; a prevalence rate of approximately 5.7% of women and 3.2% of men)” https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/domesticabusevictimcharacteristicsenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023 It could be that societal differences between the UK and Australia (eg the widely-reported sexist/misogynistic behaviour of some Australian politicians suggests that there are some significant differences between what wider Antipodean society regards as ‘normal’… Read more »
This is quite puzzling. I am not saying it is wrong. Walsingham is rather a long way from Australia, and I really wonder how many F in F people there are in Australia. I expect the numbers are vanishingly few.
Yes, Walsingham is an awfully long way from Australia. St Peter’s Eastern Hill in Melbourne had a Walsingham Cell at one time. I don’t know whether it still has. That church is not more than 20 minutes in a car from Christ Church Brunswick, where Lindsay Urwin used to be vicar. I recall in 2018 attending a Saturday morning event at Christ Church St Laurence, which was led by Lindsay. I am fairly sure that that was Walsingham focused.
Can we perhaps have some reference that will enable us to locate this Australian study? It’s no good talking about false statistics and then providing unsubstantiated allegations. I rather suspect that it is Richie who is pushing an agenda – a wholly obvious agenda.
On a matter such as this, a measure of maturity is required of men.
If your response to an observation about the abuse of women is “yes, but…” you need to reflect deeply on your own attitudes.
I was thinking less of the actual abuser, than of the writer’s church colleagues who failed to support her. And I wonder if they failed to support her due to unconscious patriarchal attitudes. “my Christian peers didn’t “get” my experience of domestic abuse. I was told to repent of my own part in the abuse, urged to drop the charges against my husband, and made to feel less like an equal and valuable member of my church, and more like a project, a failure, and someone to be pitied, or worse: judged. . . . . .All victims of abuse… Read more »
And we might add that “unconscious patriarchal assumptions and values within the church” are causing damage to many men, too.
This is really a comment on several posts. The tendency, slithering into view here, to take sides on women are abused/ men are abused is unacceptable. Both are appalling and we need to recognise that our assumptions about appropriate behaviour are contributing to the damage. Statistics about who abuses whom are more important than the crime? Come on. Who are we rejecting with our pursuit of numbers? Abuse is abuse.
Statistics are important, for example, domestic violence is a gendered crime with more women affected by men, once aware of this (and society has been for many, many, many years) then we all should be discussing this to work out what we all need to do to affect change. The stats that – one woman is murdered every 4 days by a current or former partner is also vital information, that isn’t an irrelevant figure, it is murder, and details can be found in the news almost every day. The statistic that more women are murdered after they leave an… Read more »
I agree with you on the importance of statistics, but I was troubled by the possibility that the pursuit and deployment of statistics in some comments could be seen as diminishing the experience of one category of victim.
The response Sally received from her Church (repent, drop the charges) was indeed cruel. And her recovery, equipping her to build a programme to help other women, a cause for rejoicing and admiration. She asked why God had given her friends at church what she desired (a happy marriage) when she “had been given a husband who would spend our 13-year marriage abusing me and my children? I find this a troubling question. Reminds me of a woman who told me she had “lost her faith” when she’d lost a beloved child to cancer and wanted nothing more to do with a… Read more »
I understand the context of ‘keeping the show on the road’, but no mention of spouses, partners, families, friends and a plethora of activities, groups, interests etc where we can get involved and just be ourselves. As far as the first few mentioned are concerned, we also have a vocation to be a wife, husband, father, grandparent etc and it may be something we’ve neglected somewhat in our paid roles. As for the latter, we’re still priests, and the richness of life is there to be explored.
” In the vast majority of cases, domestic abuse is experienced by women and perpetrated by men. A woman is killed by her male partner or former partner every four days in the UK England and Wales. In the year ending March 2023, data supplied from 28 police forces showed that the victim was female in 73.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes recorded by the police compared with 26.5% of domestic abuse-related crimes where the victim was male (ONS,2023a)”. Ref: womensaid.org.uk
“Today’s ONS data confirms that male violence against women and girls (VAWG) remains at horrifically high levels with around 1.6 million women experiencing domestic abuse in the year ending March 2024. However, these figures are likely to represent the tip of the iceberg as VAWG remains severely under-reported, and police have changed their recording practices [ ] “While people of all genders experience domestic abuse, the new figures show that the victim was female in 72.5% of domestic-abuse related crimes, while 64.5% of victims in domestic homicides were women” Ref: refuge.org.uk
A cursory look at the scholarly articles on the subject of domestic abuse suggests that many of the male victims are in homosexual relationships.
Far too often the Church of England doesn’t take abuse seriously. That has certainly been my personal experience in the Diocese in Europe. Victims need pastoral care and far too often pastoral care is in very short supply. Are we ordaining the right people as bishops and priests ?
I strongly recommend this chilling documentary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002dzgr?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile