Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 27 July 2019

David Hamid Eurobishop Deacons make history in the Diocese in Europe

Archbishop Richard Clarke The Irish Times Church of Ireland has put its survival over public engagement

Peter Allan Church Times Humanity’s third movement
“God’s work in creation is not finished”

Colin Coward Unadulterated Love Boris kippers and sacred truth

Simon Robinson ruminations, contemplations, stumblings On being assaulted in church

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Philip GrovesPat O'NeillRowland Wateridgepeter kettleDavid Emmott Recent comment authors
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Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Regarding Peter Allan’s essay and his mention of artificial intelligence: At some point in this third millennium/movement, we will have to deal with the question of an artificial intelligence’s self-awareness and what this means to the very definition of being human.

Stanley Monkhouse
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Being human? What is an individual? Every single one of us is a colony. The billions of microorganisms that live in us produce chemicals that influence our moods, thoughts etc. We all carry cells that came from our mothers and, through them, our elder siblings. The placenta (embryonic tissue) is a wonderful mysterious organ – when it behaves which it usually does. When it doesn’t, it reminds us that the embryo/placenta is invasive, like a malignant tumour. It is almost a law unto itself. Embryonic cells remain in the mother after pregnancy – we don’t know what happens to them,… Read more »

Kate
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Kate

Thank you Stanley. Humans as a colony is fairly standard stuff but the question of what that means for theology is new (to me at least) and intriguing.

Simon R
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Simon R

Richard Clarke (who is rarely diffident about telling it how it is) could be writing about the Church of England, and how prioritising internal ecclesiastical cohesion above public engagement is the de facto stance. Of course, unlike the Church of England, the Church of Ireland does have bishops (and archbishops) of theological weight (alongside Richard Clarke, Michael Jackson, Kenneth Kearon and Michael Burrows immediately spring to mind), and they are not afraid to engage with potentially divisive public debates. The difference in Ireland is that there seems to be none of the culture of control that appears to be stifling… Read more »

peter kettle
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peter kettle

Simon R: Probably the reason ‘that letter’ hasn’t appeared on this website is because, as you indicate, no C of E Bishop has signed it, so it’s not a piece of Anglican (thinking or otherwise)! In its absence here, can you give us a link to it?

Tim Chesterton
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Establishment has a lot to answer for.

Philip Groves
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Philip Groves

Peter, are you suggesting that the C of E is the only Anglican Church in the world? The letter was signed by the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church – I would suggest he and the church he serves is Anglican! https://www.scotland.anglican.org/church-leaders-letter-to-new-prime-minister-brexit/

peter kettle
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peter kettle

Philip – fair point! Rather too easy for those of us in England to forget that C of E are not the only Anglicans around. But even more reason for the letter – or a link – to have been published here earlier on.

Philip Groves
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Philip Groves

Thanks Peter. It was on the facebook page of the Anglican Peace and Justice Network. The TA team do a great job – they can’t post everything.

Rowland Wateridge
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Rowland Wateridge

We don’t know who was invited to sign or who, if any, declined.

Equally there are no signatories from the Church in Wales or the Church of Ireland who are, of course, as much Anglican as the Scottish Episcopal Church. None of them is ‘Established’. I don’t think we should speculate that any church might have vetoed signing the letter.

Stanley Monkhouse
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Simon R, the bishops you name are from the Republic (Clarke is a Dubliner “on loan” to Armagh). That says something. The CoI in NI has a markedly different atmosphere from that in the RoI. Dioceses that straddle the border (Clogher, Armagh, Derry & Raphoe) feel more protestant. At least one of the northern bishops is a fellow traveller with GAFCON. The CoI in the north is, of course, riddled with Orangeism. The dynamics in the south are different: principally in rural parts (and most of it is rural) the maintenance of protestant land ownership and inheritance, though that has… Read more »

Rowland Wateridge
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Rowland Wateridge

It doesn’t really count, but the only CoI service I have attended was a Sunday morning Matins in Wexford. I told the kind landlady at my B&B that I would like to go to church. “Would that be Catholic?” she inevitably asked – they were a devout family and had a prie-dieu. I had to confess being Anglican (and slightly Anglo-Catholic – I don’t admit to being ‘protestant’). I was directed to the CoI church which was securely locked until arrival of the clergy. The layout of the church was ‘protestant’ with the organ in a west gallery and a… Read more »

Stanley Monkhouse
Guest

Oh, don’t get me wrong – I have great respect for aspects of the CoI, not least its adherence to liturgical worship (low church of course). As rector, I was in Michael Burrows’ diocese – a truly good man who suffers a degree of ostracism from some of his NI colleagues. As to the public square, it struck me in my 19 years in RoI that CoI punched above its weight – still does. The Catholic and Protestant archbishops are often together at public functions and such like. This comes I suspect from Dublin bending over backwards to let the… Read more »

T Pott
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T Pott

At times the Church of Ireland has been very prominently involved in the public square, perhaps most notably in the 1912 Ulster Covenant, pledging to use “all means which may be found necessary” to resist Home Rule. Most Ulster clergy signed this, and Covenant Services were held in most Anglican Churches in Ulster. Archbishop Clarke suggests disestablishment would, anyway, have followed Partition. That is questionable. In Dublin there are two Cathedrals and a pro-Cathedral. Both cathedrals, St Patrick’s and Christ Church are ancient, pre-dating the Reformation, and are now both Church of Ireland. Only the pro-Cathedral is Roman Catholic, confusingly… Read more »

David Emmott
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David Emmott

PLEASE can we have a ban on referring to the Prime Minister as ‘Boris’? He is not the cuddly clown he tries to portray himself as, and he is nobody’s friend except for the few hyper-rich plutocrats whose interests he serves. He should be kept at arms length by the use of formal terms of address. Just like the appalling Stephen Yaxley-Lennon who the media persist in referring to by his matey pseudonym Tommy Robinson.

T Pott
Guest
T Pott

I shall endeavour, in future, to avoid referring to the PM by his Christian name – I suspect it is because it is so unusual and Johnson so common. I can’t really say anything about SY-L/ TR since, I confess, my own name is not really T Pott; but as I don’t envisage referring to him at all, the question of which name to use will not arise.

peterpi - Peter Gross
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peterpi - Peter Gross

“Johnson” may be common, but “the PM” or “PM Johnson” wouldn’t be.

David Rowett
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David Rowett

I am of that generation which tends to append the name ‘Karloff’ to ‘Boris’ – sufficiently dark and sinister I’m sure….:-) Others may reference ‘Yeltsin’….

Anne
Guest
Anne

Mother was once, I am told, engaged to the B. Karloff, whose real name was Billy Pratt!

David Rowett
Guest
David Rowett

That’s the one! What an honour….
I suppose the other point of reference would be Boris Godunov. Perhaps in the UK’s case, ‘Boris Probably-Not-Really-Godunov’? Pays homage to BJ’s multi-barrelled moniker, too.

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

For those familiar with American television animation of the 1960s, perhaps the reference should be to “Boris Badenov”?

Dean Henley
Guest
Dean Henley

Simon’s description of his encounter with the disturbed man reminded me of Jesus’ interaction with the naked man chained up in the caves because his community could not cope with his behaviour. Simon models the same assertive kindness as Jesus. My only sadness is that Simon repeats several times that his sexuality is a private matter for himself, for God and the bishop. This reinforces a heteronormative view of human sexuality; heterosexuals are never expected by the church to be discreet about their sexuality. Their partnerships are lauded at licensing services and inductions, Marigold or Bob are welcomed as if… Read more »

Fr John Emlyn Harris-White
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Fr John Emlyn Harris-White

For me it is very upsetting to see the bile that has found its way onto this site regarding our Prime Minister. You may disagree with him, but each person is entitled to their views, and he seeks to do what is best for our nation, at a very difficult time. When I think of Our Lord’s command to love our neighbour, I am much more concerned with supporting our gay folk from families of faith who are being rejected by them. Some being ejected from their homes, others forced in to therapy, and some ending up taking their lives.… Read more »

David Emmott
Guest
David Emmott

Mr Johnson is indeed a child of God and deserves our prayers. He is also a proven liar and I don’t see any evidence that he ‘seeks to do what is best for our nation’, as opposed to what is best for BJ and his plutocratic friends. I don’t see the connection between your first and second paragraphs above. Of course homophobia is appalling, but it is being covertly encouraged by many voices in Johnson’s government, as is racism.
I’m willing to see the best in any of them, but they don’t make it easy!