Neil Patterson ViaMedia.News A Tale of Two Reports
David Runcorn Inclusive Evangelicals No turning back – holding fast in a hesitant church
Paul Avis Church Times Ailing and failing: the Church of England has lost its way
“An institution that is marred by scandal and division needs to prioritise ethical thinking and acting”
I’m very grateful to Paul Avis for his article. When we both worked together in the Diocese of Exeter I sometimes had disagreements with Paul, very notably over the Anglican Communion Covenant, which he seemed rather sold on at the time. From the tone of his article, I sense that his own thinking has moved on a little, especially in his suggestion that the LGBT+ community find themselves excluded from church life. I enjoyed his conclusion and reference to John Oman in the first world warm and the ethical dimension. I suppose the problem is that there is a very… Read more »
Paul Avis’s article appeals to me on an emotional level. It is heartfelt and good-hearted. But…… I’m unconvinced. The “presenting issue” (i.e the one everybody is talking about) might be safeguarding failures but I don’t believe that’s the reason why so many people don’t attend Sunday worship. The main reason is surely that people just don’t believe that supernatural stuff any more? I suspect my parents didn’t believe it either but their social world revolved entirely round the Church. I was a thinking, serious-minded, church-attending, teenager in a very high Anglo-Catholic church in Wales when “Honest to God” was published. My confirmation classes, with… Read more »
What a refreshing comment. I believe part of the reason for Church decline is the type of biblical, superstitious drivel that has been in the ascendency for the last few years. I would add Richard Holloway to John Robinson’s attempt to convey a mature and sensible faith to a doubting population. The people are asking for bread. We give them anti-gay evangelical nonsense in the hope they’ll become as hateful and narrow-minded as we are.
Much value in your words. I remember a priest telling us (when I was a young boy) that God was not an old man with a beard sitting in heaven above us. Yet, so much of our language clings to that concept. Who or what is this God which has a will? What is the nature of God? How can we communicate that, other than vague terms like ‘ground of our being’? When we pray, to whom or what are we praying? My least favourite verses are the last verses of psalm 137 ‘By the rivers of Babylon’, which are… Read more »
‘people just don’t believe that supernatural stuff any more?’ People believe all kinds of supernatural stuff nowadays – from a white feather being a sign from their dear departed, to the accuracy of horoscopes, to the efficacy of crystals. Watch a travel documentary and see the presenter sampling the rituals of different faiths – including witchcraft (Joanna Lumley) – or asking for a shamanic blessing. A major department store in London offers tarot readings. Maybe part of the problem is that the faith we’re offering isn’t supernatural enough, or isn’t supernatural in the right way. Charismatic and Pentecostal churches seem… Read more »
Yes, I really I should have said “most people don’t believe that supernatural stuff”. And the people who believe in crystals or fairies or witches probably never attended an Anglican church anyway. I would take little – indeed no – convincing that a shamanic blessing, bestowed with goodwill, is as effective as one from the Archbishop of Canterbury.
potential newcomer with an open mind will search the C of E website in vain for any indication that it has moved beyond third and fourth century theology. ” An incautious statement, not to say ill-informed, statement. I can think in the next 30 seconds probably of a dozen clergy and or theologians, or both, who’ve engaged with modern thinking and have been committed to, or contributory to, the Church of England. Begin with Rowan Williams, Oliver O’Donovan, Nigel Biggar, the late John Webster, Tom Wright, the late Stephen Sykes, Janet Martin Soskice (okay. She’s a Roman Catholic but still… Read more »
Though doubtless not as widely read as you I can think of clergy and others who have “engaged with modern thinking” too. I know and admire several personally and have read many others, including Richard Holloway. But I stand by my statement that the Church of England website is not a promising resource for those who are looking for signposting to such thinking.
I didn’t say that nobody is doing any interesting thinking. I suggested you would search for it in vain on the Church of England website.
Neil Patterson commends Love Matters for “presenting a theology of human relationships which responds more imaginatively to the great diversity of family situations where love is found in England today.” While Love Matters itself has (p101): “Studies of children growing up with parents of the same-sex have found no significant differences in child outcomes, adjustment, behaviour, gender development, wellbeing and self-esteem as a function of parental sexual orientation. …Children born to or adopted by same-sex parents are as likely as other children to thrive. The focus is clearly on relationship quality and family stability.” So why doesn’t the CofE extend… Read more »
For a Canadian Anglican, the endless decades of seeing the Church of England going forward and backward along with the running commentary of cynics, grumps, and naysayers seems so confusing and I can sense the discouragement in some of today’s articles. The situation in Canada is not similar, I admit. The Anglican Churchbof Canada is not part of the national conversation and our polarities are not as pronounced. That being said, the debate over same-sex issues was long and painful and its result was along the lines of an agreement to move forward, acknowledging that some disagree. The proximity of… Read more »
Is the congeniality of the ACC you note a function of its size (very small) and its liberal uniformity?