It seems to me that the teaching the Church about sexuality is contested rather than inconsistent and that there is not so much a problem about believing in truth as about identifying truth as the contest rages. The suggestion that there is a range of legitimate opinions, seemingly including mutually contradictory propositions within the range, is the only approach that in some way suggests that the truth is that the truth is too elusive for the traditional pursuit of it to succeed in this context. There is a poetic quality to this approach but it may not really be convincing.… Read more »
Naughtius Maximus
20 days ago
I like nice Bishops. The bishop of Winchester and the two suffragans seem really good and nice people. The previous bishop, who had to go, was a disaster and not a nice person. How he was appointed is a mystery, and that is a major problem with church appointments: lack of transparency.
Naughtius Maximus, I like to look at the voting record of present Bishops on GS before making judgement. ( LLF, July, item 19,July2026, and on Independent Safeguarding).
I assume this is being ironic since ‘nice bishops’ sums up much of the problem of the Church of England – inoffensive, urbane, smiley and essentially upholders rather than challengers of the status quo. Some of them admit their frustration about this. One of them (I forget which) said ‘Everywhere St Paul went, there was a riot… everywhere I go, they serve tea’.
Isn’t that the case for most appointments? If I am appointed town dog catcher for Trumpton, will the public be told that Joe Bloggs was also interviewed but his dog catching skills were not up to snuff and Fred Jones applied but gave a dodgy answer to the DEI question?
To spare the blushes of unsuccessful candidates, generally only the name of the successful candidate is announced. Why one candidate is chosen and others are rejected is known only to those who shortlist and interview. It is the same with bishops.
The problem with the present system of CNC is that to be successful, a candididate needs 10 out of 14 votes. I know where my diocesan colleagues are in terms of churchmanship and so can guess for whom they have voted with a reasonable degree of certainty, but the central members are generally quite unknown. As the votes are secret, I have no way of knowing that if I switch my vote from a candidate further down the list to one with more votes, this could be counterbalanced by an opposite switcher; so we all coalesce around a middle ‘potentially… Read more »
My experience was with ++Rowan needing to leave to open a school in Tadcaster at 2pm! That really put the skids under us! From memory (possibly Oxford in 2005) we had a preferred finalist candidate but were flagging on the need (mandatory then) to get a second. Fail on the second and the whole CNC fails, a bit like Hereford years later.
During a deanery Lent course, the suffragan bishop led a session on the subject of evil. In the Q&A I asked him about the prolific knife crime in a large town in his patch. He was speechless, it was as though he’d never connected the gangs and organised crime groups in the town with his subject matter. If bishops communicate that they want to keep things ‘nice’ then most church people will go along with that; however surely the gospel is about the specificity of human weakness.
I believe the previous Bishop of Winchester, Tim Dakin, came straight from leading CMS. While this can prove effective – John V Taylor being a standout example – there is not the detailed tracking that experience in Parishes / Cathedrals might give. After ordination, his primary roles were administrative and educational. He served as the Principal of Carlile College in Kenya and then spent 12 years as the General Secretary of the Church Mission Society (CMS) Dakin’s appointment directly mirrors the “Fast Track” phenomenon. When he was consecrated as the 97th Bishop of Winchester in 2012, it was highly unusual… Read more »
Nice bishops alas are sometimes weak bishops – e.g. the last Archbishop of Canterbury. The trouble is that until someone is appointed it can be very hard to see where that is going. Look at the recent retiring Bishop in Scotland. When she was consecrated, it was widely celebrated as a historic milestone as Scotland’s first female bishop. On paper, she possessed a solid mix of traditional parish ministry (including serving as a Rector in Haddington) and wider theological education experience. To the appointing bodies, she looked like a progressive, unifying, and pioneering choice to lead a historic diocese. Her… Read more »
‘Niceness’ sums up much of western Anglicanism, but any analysis of trends over the last 50 years reveals the demographic time bomb sitting under the C of E and any change by bishops and others needed to address this issue has been either resisted or ignored, out of arrogance more than anything else. And without any effective levers to pull, frustration inevitably builds up with untold consequences, ultimately leading to the church being scattered. The only question is when not if. Listening to the interview with one of the leaders of the Save the Parish campaign was revealing; the rationale… Read more »
“…but any analysis of trends over the last 50 years reveals the demographic time bomb sitting under the C of E and any change by bishops and others needed to address this issue has been either resisted or ignored, out of arrogance more than anything else.” I must say it does seem inexplicable. The numerical facts are patent. Why is this not Topic #1? When you put it down to arrogance, do you mean it would not look right to admit the problem as it would suggest a diminishment of status? “I am a Bishop of a dying church” isn’t… Read more »
I think the reason is that bishops and others simply don’t know what to do about numerical decline. Such growth as there is in English religion seems to be going to new ” free churches” that meet in school halls and so forth. Ethnic churches both black and Orthodox are growing simply for demographic reasons. RC ism is declining in its former heart lands of the NW and NE but holding up through immigration and perhaps the quiet Revival. It’s problem is lack of clergy. The C of E lacks an overall identity in an increasingly pluralist religious picture. Bits… Read more »
“The C of E lacks an overall identity.” I keep coming back to these few words in Perry Butler’s post. We live in fallow times. Yet, instead of responding with the humility that scarcity demands, we invest heavily in HTB plants and Resource Churches. These suffer from an ecclesiological thinness, weak sacramental theology and a functional understanding of ministry which, when taken together, eat away at our Anglican identity and instincts: the liturgical formation of the faithful and a commitment to the whole parish through a ministry of presence and place. The underlying issue is ontological. The parish embodies the… Read more »
Tim Evans
17 days ago
As an antidote to the tribalism of GS elections there’s a great article by Mark Clavier from the Church in Wales perspective. He suggests that we should love and rejoice in the church that actually exists where we are today, the people we’re called to be with and learn from and serve. Rather than form tribes that work to create the church we want, claiming that it’s the church that God wants. It’s at: https://markclavier.substack.com/p/if-only
I don’t want to let the TA conversation move on to a new set of blogs and articles without commenting on my liking with Andrew Goddard’s post for Psephizo. Andrew and I have been friends for over twenty years. We first met when the Diocese of Oxford organised deanery meetings to explore sexuality. Andrew’s memory is better than mine and he will remember the name of the woman who organised the events. Andrew was invited to present a picture of the Biblical teaching about sexuality and I was invited to talk about the lived experience of LGBT people in the… Read more »
JC Fisher
15 days ago
Colin Coward:
Evangelicalism and Anglo-Catholicism are also in crisis, partly because both have struggled to defend their truth claims in the face of the postmodern critique that their doctrines represent the attempt to gain power over people’s lives. The safeguarding scandals provide the evidence for this charge. [Emphasis added]
So much THIS. “My opinion is God’s Command: it’s the plain meaning of Scripture! Now back down, sinners.”
It seems to me that the teaching the Church about sexuality is contested rather than inconsistent and that there is not so much a problem about believing in truth as about identifying truth as the contest rages. The suggestion that there is a range of legitimate opinions, seemingly including mutually contradictory propositions within the range, is the only approach that in some way suggests that the truth is that the truth is too elusive for the traditional pursuit of it to succeed in this context. There is a poetic quality to this approach but it may not really be convincing.… Read more »
I like nice Bishops. The bishop of Winchester and the two suffragans seem really good and nice people. The previous bishop, who had to go, was a disaster and not a nice person. How he was appointed is a mystery, and that is a major problem with church appointments: lack of transparency.
Naughtius Maximus, I like to look at the voting record of present Bishops on GS before making judgement. ( LLF, July, item 19,July2026, and on Independent Safeguarding).
I assume this is being ironic since ‘nice bishops’ sums up much of the problem of the Church of England – inoffensive, urbane, smiley and essentially upholders rather than challengers of the status quo. Some of them admit their frustration about this. One of them (I forget which) said ‘Everywhere St Paul went, there was a riot… everywhere I go, they serve tea’.
I did say both “good” and “nice”. I’d be happy to have any of them as neighbours. Our diocesan bishop can walk with kings, nor lacks the common touch.
Isn’t that the case for most appointments? If I am appointed town dog catcher for Trumpton, will the public be told that Joe Bloggs was also interviewed but his dog catching skills were not up to snuff and Fred Jones applied but gave a dodgy answer to the DEI question?
To spare the blushes of unsuccessful candidates, generally only the name of the successful candidate is announced. Why one candidate is chosen and others are rejected is known only to those who shortlist and interview. It is the same with bishops.
The problem with the present system of CNC is that to be successful, a candididate needs 10 out of 14 votes. I know where my diocesan colleagues are in terms of churchmanship and so can guess for whom they have voted with a reasonable degree of certainty, but the central members are generally quite unknown. As the votes are secret, I have no way of knowing that if I switch my vote from a candidate further down the list to one with more votes, this could be counterbalanced by an opposite switcher; so we all coalesce around a middle ‘potentially… Read more »
+ Ebor needed to be in Grimsby? Sounds a bit fishy to me!
My experience was with ++Rowan needing to leave to open a school in Tadcaster at 2pm! That really put the skids under us! From memory (possibly Oxford in 2005) we had a preferred finalist candidate but were flagging on the need (mandatory then) to get a second. Fail on the second and the whole CNC fails, a bit like Hereford years later.
Thanks, Ian for your insightful comment. I did wonder whether Grimsby was an excuse like ‘diplomatic flu’!
Outside his Province, too. Contrary to the belief of many, Grimsby is not in Yorkshire!
During a deanery Lent course, the suffragan bishop led a session on the subject of evil. In the Q&A I asked him about the prolific knife crime in a large town in his patch. He was speechless, it was as though he’d never connected the gangs and organised crime groups in the town with his subject matter. If bishops communicate that they want to keep things ‘nice’ then most church people will go along with that; however surely the gospel is about the specificity of human weakness.
I believe the previous Bishop of Winchester, Tim Dakin, came straight from leading CMS. While this can prove effective – John V Taylor being a standout example – there is not the detailed tracking that experience in Parishes / Cathedrals might give. After ordination, his primary roles were administrative and educational. He served as the Principal of Carlile College in Kenya and then spent 12 years as the General Secretary of the Church Mission Society (CMS) Dakin’s appointment directly mirrors the “Fast Track” phenomenon. When he was consecrated as the 97th Bishop of Winchester in 2012, it was highly unusual… Read more »
I have ordered a copy. Thank you for the recommendation.
Nice bishops alas are sometimes weak bishops – e.g. the last Archbishop of Canterbury. The trouble is that until someone is appointed it can be very hard to see where that is going. Look at the recent retiring Bishop in Scotland. When she was consecrated, it was widely celebrated as a historic milestone as Scotland’s first female bishop. On paper, she possessed a solid mix of traditional parish ministry (including serving as a Rector in Haddington) and wider theological education experience. To the appointing bodies, she looked like a progressive, unifying, and pioneering choice to lead a historic diocese. Her… Read more »
‘Niceness’ sums up much of western Anglicanism, but any analysis of trends over the last 50 years reveals the demographic time bomb sitting under the C of E and any change by bishops and others needed to address this issue has been either resisted or ignored, out of arrogance more than anything else. And without any effective levers to pull, frustration inevitably builds up with untold consequences, ultimately leading to the church being scattered. The only question is when not if. Listening to the interview with one of the leaders of the Save the Parish campaign was revealing; the rationale… Read more »
“…but any analysis of trends over the last 50 years reveals the demographic time bomb sitting under the C of E and any change by bishops and others needed to address this issue has been either resisted or ignored, out of arrogance more than anything else.” I must say it does seem inexplicable. The numerical facts are patent. Why is this not Topic #1? When you put it down to arrogance, do you mean it would not look right to admit the problem as it would suggest a diminishment of status? “I am a Bishop of a dying church” isn’t… Read more »
I think the reason is that bishops and others simply don’t know what to do about numerical decline. Such growth as there is in English religion seems to be going to new ” free churches” that meet in school halls and so forth. Ethnic churches both black and Orthodox are growing simply for demographic reasons. RC ism is declining in its former heart lands of the NW and NE but holding up through immigration and perhaps the quiet Revival. It’s problem is lack of clergy. The C of E lacks an overall identity in an increasingly pluralist religious picture. Bits… Read more »
“The C of E lacks an overall identity.” I keep coming back to these few words in Perry Butler’s post. We live in fallow times. Yet, instead of responding with the humility that scarcity demands, we invest heavily in HTB plants and Resource Churches. These suffer from an ecclesiological thinness, weak sacramental theology and a functional understanding of ministry which, when taken together, eat away at our Anglican identity and instincts: the liturgical formation of the faithful and a commitment to the whole parish through a ministry of presence and place. The underlying issue is ontological. The parish embodies the… Read more »
As an antidote to the tribalism of GS elections there’s a great article by Mark Clavier from the Church in Wales perspective. He suggests that we should love and rejoice in the church that actually exists where we are today, the people we’re called to be with and learn from and serve. Rather than form tribes that work to create the church we want, claiming that it’s the church that God wants. It’s at: https://markclavier.substack.com/p/if-only
I don’t want to let the TA conversation move on to a new set of blogs and articles without commenting on my liking with Andrew Goddard’s post for Psephizo. Andrew and I have been friends for over twenty years. We first met when the Diocese of Oxford organised deanery meetings to explore sexuality. Andrew’s memory is better than mine and he will remember the name of the woman who organised the events. Andrew was invited to present a picture of the Biblical teaching about sexuality and I was invited to talk about the lived experience of LGBT people in the… Read more »
Colin Coward:
So much THIS. “My opinion is God’s Command: it’s the plain meaning of Scripture! Now back down, sinners.”