These three very meaty articles were posted over a day ago and so far not a single comment from anyone.
Neil Patterson’s last line about allowing us to grow into a wiser and less judgmental church is a wonderful theme for Lent. I enjoyed Colin Coward’s article but am surprised that it seems to have passed by unnoticed.
Gavin Drake’s article about Safeguarding post Synod seems to me to be particularly well considered- we are not going in the right direction and obfuscation rules . Does no one else think this matters?
Thank you for commenting on all three articles, Susanna. My blog received very few comments on Facebook as well as zero reaction until now here. The absence of reaction is significant. I am curious as to why there is this silence. I have a number of ideas and theories but I’m hesitant to write about them here.
I did not entirely grasp your remarks about our God-map. Is the map our conception of what it is to be God? I would think that human conceptions of God and of the universe are complements, in that our understanding of the universe and of the main problem it presents, ‘evil’, determines the way we understand God, the ground of the universe’s being and either the answer to the problem of evil or the demonstration of the fact that the problem cannot be answered. Many say that however much power we assign to the ground of being that ground could… Read more »
Yes indeed Susanna I think it matters. I particularly relate to Gavin Drake’s post. I was present at the Synod of February 2025 and heard Bishop Grenfell say any complainant should be listened to. I wrote to her about my friend whom I have been supporting for exactly six years. I have mentioned him before on TA as having unjust treatment with the DSO refusing to investigate the case. Her excuse for withholding evidence which might have exonerated him was that the child must be believed and any evidence to the contrary is inadmissible. The Bishop’s excuse for inaction in… Read more »
I think there’s a kind of ‘comment-fatigue’. The fact that there are few or no comments doesn’t mean that meaty posts like this haven’t been read and appreciated. Sometimes when there are 40 or more comments confusion sets in and I begin to lose the will to live.
I agree. I appreciate the efforts of those who write the articles and of the editors who post them, and read them with interest. However, I frequently have nothing of any great interest to add and try to avoid commenting just for the sake of it.
On safeguarding matters, I am sparing in my comments not because I consider the subject unimportant but because it is too serious for me to say anything unless I am sure it is well- informed.
I agree on Gavin’s article, I didn’t comment solely because I didn’t have anything more of substance to add on this issue.
Just skimmed Neil Patterson’s article. Could it be compressed into fewer words? I probably agree 1000% with what he recommends, but can’t remember what he recommends. To be honest, I am astonished if anybody still uses the homilies he describes.
Alas, when there are wars and rumours of wars, the volume of content (true, false, just plain bizarre) has completely overwhelmed me, not to mention a growing avalanche LLF obituaries (and restarts), and GAFCON Tom-foolery, and…..
Strangely enough I had exactly the same thought about the absence of any reply to the sad news, sad for several reasons, of the death of the Bishop of Guildford. Even now the ‘score’ is only two. But, having said that, I deprecate the idea that TA readers, still less an author, should feel entitled to rebuke other TA contributors a mere day after publication. Apart from the appalling international situation facing all of us, at a local level in my neck of the woods there has been a conviction of multiple rape by boy teenagers of girl teenagers (none… Read more »
Rowland you are quite right that safeguarding isn’t solely a church problem- far from it . But does that justify the Church of England setting a terrible example and continuing to wrong victims and survivors they might be able to put things right for?
But fear not, Trump’s horsemen of the Apocalypse deserve everyone’s full attention so our house cannot be put in order
Well, it wasn’t about episcopal appointments or even gaiters!
What are we to expect?
So few comments or contributions were made about the death of the excellent Bishop of Guildford and his service to the Church
Last edited 15 days ago by Too old to genuflect
John Glasspool
18 days ago
I suspect people feel there are more important things going on in the world than what God thinks about what people do with their genitalia.
In response to Neil’s reference to the Books of Homilies, I think of Rosalind’s comment in As You Like It, Act 3, scene 2, ‘O most gentle pulpiter, what tedious homily of love have you wearied your parishioners withal, and never cried, “Have patience, good people”
Grateful thanks for this, John; it’s hugely refreshing to see TA quoting Shakespeare as well as the Bible!
Michael M.
17 days ago
Ref Colin Coward’s article, in my young day no-one waited for organisations to spoon feed a God map to us, we drew our own by picking and choosing, and redrawing as often as we liked without asking permission. As to why Colin cited William Rankin and Laura Spinney he doesn’t shed light. (According to Colin they are too unsound to be worth checking.) They – or he – or all three, seem to have a motive to deny the way proper skilled cartographers have mapped uncertainty and multiplicity both objectively and subjectively (which are on a continuum) all along, as… Read more »
Michael M.
17 days ago
To Neil Patterson’s point I would add, that institutionalism and clericalism don’t make a good mix.
Michael M.
17 days ago
I located some pages in maproomblog.com, freethemap.com and Laura’s Guardian piece. Rankin and others are concerned with institutional weaponising of maps against involved and uninvolved public to distort knowledge of realities. The bad overtone of Laura’s problem with the present political border within North America shows hers is not analogous. I always thought a map showed what it said it showed (if sometimes implictly), but that was just me, and I saw quantities of ones for numerous purposes. I would suggest Colin advocate we resume drawing maps of churches in order to disarm enforced gnosticism. In my young day we… Read more »
Susan Hunt
16 days ago
Daniel Lamont speaks of ‘Comment fatigue’ but I think it is much more than that. It seems to me that there is a sort of ‘battle fatigue’ and weariness with fighting for justice and honesty in safeguarding and being constantly ignored; no response of any sort, no discussion or debate or, most of all, no listening. Someone said to me recently that it is like, ‘flogging a dead horse’.
Gavin’s article describes it all so clearly.
No wonder that supporters are weary and exhausted after so many years of trying. Added to which we are all getting much older.
Susan I don’t know how you carry on . I waited for a day thinking someone else more involved must surely comment, and particularly on Gavin Drake’s article and no- one did. I have now read the replies to me when they came- mainly nothing to do with us guv, I don’t know anything about safeguarding and don’t you know there is a war on?? I have begun to think this site is not for me and that reading endless rounds of bishop jenga is really not my bag. But no doubt all the Ineque audits will find that great… Read more »
I was reluctant to say this in my earlier comment, and thought long and hard before doing so now. The Bishop of Guildford was himself the victim of horrendous and multiple abuse (and I assumed that most TA readers, particularly those close to the subject, knew this), and he courageously disclosed this fact. I thought, and still think, that some expression of compassion was appropriate.
Anglican Priest
16 days ago
It isn’t just ‘comment fatigue’ — it is that the church being commented on is inherently fatigued and fatiguing itself. How much longer will it be around and how can it be the “Church of England” when English people don’t attend it anymore? Could it be this is simply the final throes of a dying church, and we are just watching the battles going nowhere and ‘commenting’ on this is just so much noise.
These three very meaty articles were posted over a day ago and so far not a single comment from anyone.
Neil Patterson’s last line about allowing us to grow into a wiser and less judgmental church is a wonderful theme for Lent. I enjoyed Colin Coward’s article but am surprised that it seems to have passed by unnoticed.
Gavin Drake’s article about Safeguarding post Synod seems to me to be particularly well considered- we are not going in the right direction and obfuscation rules . Does no one else think this matters?
Thank you for commenting on all three articles, Susanna. My blog received very few comments on Facebook as well as zero reaction until now here. The absence of reaction is significant. I am curious as to why there is this silence. I have a number of ideas and theories but I’m hesitant to write about them here.
I did not entirely grasp your remarks about our God-map. Is the map our conception of what it is to be God? I would think that human conceptions of God and of the universe are complements, in that our understanding of the universe and of the main problem it presents, ‘evil’, determines the way we understand God, the ground of the universe’s being and either the answer to the problem of evil or the demonstration of the fact that the problem cannot be answered. Many say that however much power we assign to the ground of being that ground could… Read more »
Yes indeed Susanna I think it matters. I particularly relate to Gavin Drake’s post. I was present at the Synod of February 2025 and heard Bishop Grenfell say any complainant should be listened to. I wrote to her about my friend whom I have been supporting for exactly six years. I have mentioned him before on TA as having unjust treatment with the DSO refusing to investigate the case. Her excuse for withholding evidence which might have exonerated him was that the child must be believed and any evidence to the contrary is inadmissible. The Bishop’s excuse for inaction in… Read more »
The new bishop has a reputation for being very keen on due process. I would hope that extends to safeguarding matters.
I think there’s a kind of ‘comment-fatigue’. The fact that there are few or no comments doesn’t mean that meaty posts like this haven’t been read and appreciated. Sometimes when there are 40 or more comments confusion sets in and I begin to lose the will to live.
I agree. I appreciate the efforts of those who write the articles and of the editors who post them, and read them with interest. However, I frequently have nothing of any great interest to add and try to avoid commenting just for the sake of it.
On safeguarding matters, I am sparing in my comments not because I consider the subject unimportant but because it is too serious for me to say anything unless I am sure it is well- informed.
I only come here to read the comments. I rarely read the articles that generate them.
I don’t read the comments anymore. This is such a biased platform it has become an echo chamber for liberals.
I agree on Gavin’s article, I didn’t comment solely because I didn’t have anything more of substance to add on this issue.
Just skimmed Neil Patterson’s article. Could it be compressed into fewer words? I probably agree 1000% with what he recommends, but can’t remember what he recommends. To be honest, I am astonished if anybody still uses the homilies he describes.
Alas, when there are wars and rumours of wars, the volume of content (true, false, just plain bizarre) has completely overwhelmed me, not to mention a growing avalanche LLF obituaries (and restarts), and GAFCON Tom-foolery, and…..
Strangely enough I had exactly the same thought about the absence of any reply to the sad news, sad for several reasons, of the death of the Bishop of Guildford. Even now the ‘score’ is only two. But, having said that, I deprecate the idea that TA readers, still less an author, should feel entitled to rebuke other TA contributors a mere day after publication. Apart from the appalling international situation facing all of us, at a local level in my neck of the woods there has been a conviction of multiple rape by boy teenagers of girl teenagers (none… Read more »
Rowland you are quite right that safeguarding isn’t solely a church problem- far from it . But does that justify the Church of England setting a terrible example and continuing to wrong victims and survivors they might be able to put things right for?
But fear not, Trump’s horsemen of the Apocalypse deserve everyone’s full attention so our house cannot be put in order
Well, it wasn’t about episcopal appointments or even gaiters!
What are we to expect?
So few comments or contributions were made about the death of the excellent Bishop of Guildford and his service to the Church
I suspect people feel there are more important things going on in the world than what God thinks about what people do with their genitalia.
Amen
In response to Neil’s reference to the Books of Homilies, I think of Rosalind’s comment in As You Like It, Act 3, scene 2, ‘O most gentle pulpiter, what tedious homily of love have you wearied your parishioners withal, and never cried, “Have patience, good people”
Grateful thanks for this, John; it’s hugely refreshing to see TA quoting Shakespeare as well as the Bible!
Ref Colin Coward’s article, in my young day no-one waited for organisations to spoon feed a God map to us, we drew our own by picking and choosing, and redrawing as often as we liked without asking permission. As to why Colin cited William Rankin and Laura Spinney he doesn’t shed light. (According to Colin they are too unsound to be worth checking.) They – or he – or all three, seem to have a motive to deny the way proper skilled cartographers have mapped uncertainty and multiplicity both objectively and subjectively (which are on a continuum) all along, as… Read more »
To Neil Patterson’s point I would add, that institutionalism and clericalism don’t make a good mix.
I located some pages in maproomblog.com, freethemap.com and Laura’s Guardian piece. Rankin and others are concerned with institutional weaponising of maps against involved and uninvolved public to distort knowledge of realities. The bad overtone of Laura’s problem with the present political border within North America shows hers is not analogous. I always thought a map showed what it said it showed (if sometimes implictly), but that was just me, and I saw quantities of ones for numerous purposes. I would suggest Colin advocate we resume drawing maps of churches in order to disarm enforced gnosticism. In my young day we… Read more »
Daniel Lamont speaks of ‘Comment fatigue’ but I think it is much more than that. It seems to me that there is a sort of ‘battle fatigue’ and weariness with fighting for justice and honesty in safeguarding and being constantly ignored; no response of any sort, no discussion or debate or, most of all, no listening. Someone said to me recently that it is like, ‘flogging a dead horse’.
Gavin’s article describes it all so clearly.
No wonder that supporters are weary and exhausted after so many years of trying. Added to which we are all getting much older.
Susan I don’t know how you carry on . I waited for a day thinking someone else more involved must surely comment, and particularly on Gavin Drake’s article and no- one did. I have now read the replies to me when they came- mainly nothing to do with us guv, I don’t know anything about safeguarding and don’t you know there is a war on?? I have begun to think this site is not for me and that reading endless rounds of bishop jenga is really not my bag. But no doubt all the Ineque audits will find that great… Read more »
I was reluctant to say this in my earlier comment, and thought long and hard before doing so now. The Bishop of Guildford was himself the victim of horrendous and multiple abuse (and I assumed that most TA readers, particularly those close to the subject, knew this), and he courageously disclosed this fact. I thought, and still think, that some expression of compassion was appropriate.
It isn’t just ‘comment fatigue’ — it is that the church being commented on is inherently fatigued and fatiguing itself. How much longer will it be around and how can it be the “Church of England” when English people don’t attend it anymore? Could it be this is simply the final throes of a dying church, and we are just watching the battles going nowhere and ‘commenting’ on this is just so much noise.
FWIW our numbers, in rural Hampshire, are going up.