Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 8 December 2021

LGBTQ Faith UK Yes Bishop. Sir Humphrey 2 – Church of England 0

Andrew Knight ViaMedia.News Blessings & Same-Sex Relationships

Martyn Percy Modern Church Rickety Religion: Advent Calling
“The first in a short series of Advent reflections on mission, money, sex, power, integrity and identity within the Church of England”

Jeremy Morris has fairly recently started a blog Ad fontes. His latest piece is The faith of poetry and the poetry of faith.

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Susannah Clark
6 months ago

Martyn: “Sometimes accepting God’s demolition of us, and the possibility of a complete reconstruction, is better than preservation.”

That has been my own life experience.

As for the fall of regimes, and tipping points… very thought-provoking reflections on the issue of contempt.

Kate
Kate
Reply to  Susannah Clark
6 months ago

“The first sin is contempt. That God need not be relied upon, or even trusted. That we could do better if we helped ourselves a bit more,”
 
A particular example of helping ourselves rather than relying on God is transition, and especially surgery. I continue to believe that both were right for me. For that reason, I tend to disagree with Martyn’s assessment of contempt, although like you I agree with his remarks on demolition. (Indeed, transition for many of us is the demolition of much we found comfortable eg in terms of reputation, relationships and finance.)

Marise Hargreaves
Marise Hargreaves
Reply to  Kate
6 months ago

I don’t think helping ourselves a little more means depending on God a little less. I think it is a mark of growing to have maturity of faith. For me the first so called sin is not contempt as defined in the very considered piece by Martyn – for me it is not seeing who I truly am – made in God’s image and precious in his sight. Letting others define me and judge who I am is a subtle form of contempt. Self hatred is contempt for that of God within myself and others. Focussing only on darkness and… Read more »

Kate
Kate
6 months ago

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and to God that which is God’s. A blessing is from God, not from the Church and Andrew Knight’s obligation in such circumstances is therefore to God, not to the church in deciding whether to give or withhold a blessing. He writes that he believes it is wrong to withhold blessings from such couples so he should give them.

Last edited 6 months ago by Kate
Martin
Martin
Reply to  Kate
6 months ago

I agree with you Kate, though perhaps he fears sanction from his bishop if he were found to be conducting such blessings. My husband and I were married in a C of E church, our vicar at the time was quite willing to transgress the rules.

Marise Hargreaves
Marise Hargreaves
Reply to  Martin
6 months ago

Yes – I think this is his first post and I don’t know the support he would have to step out and go ahead. It is a sad reflection that someone should be put in this position and have to choose what is expedient as against what you believe. Just how much support he and others would actually get is the point – it really is time inclusive parishes and priests linked and built a strong base to work from. That might stop them being threatened and picked off one by one by the powers that be. The risks are… Read more »

Susannah Clark
Reply to  Martin
6 months ago

Same here. My priest told us “How can I treat your love differently to anyone else’s?” Congregation of over 100, PCC welcoming visitors and serving food and drinks after, bridesmaids, wedding dress, party.

If the bishops and Synod won’t take the lead, then it’s down to the leadership of the local church communities themselves. It’s a conscience issue.

“Besides,” my priest said, “the two of you are a gift to our church life, and help us grow.”

A truly wonderful (and courageous) man.

God bless your marriage, Martin. Or rather, you have already been blessed.

Allan Sheath
Allan Sheath
Reply to  Susannah Clark
6 months ago

I’ve said Mass for a gay couple, but would respect those priests who, while sympathetic, in all conscience feel they must honour their ordination declaration to “minister the doctrine and sacraments of Christ as the Church of England has received them.” I don’t think it requires a particularly tender conscience to be pulled both ways on this.

Kate
Kate
Reply to  Susannah Clark
6 months ago

I think conscience of a priest is the wrong way of looking at this. What matters here is the couple, not the priest so ALL priests, regardless of their personal views, should offer blessings to same sex couples. I think the Parable of the Good Samaritan is the relevant teaching.

Allan Sheath
Allan Sheath
Reply to  Kate
6 months ago

Good luck with that, Kate. Clergy already have a conscience clause in the case of a wedding where one party has a previous spouse still living. Any rite for bessing same sex couples is bound to have similar provision.

Kate
Kate
Reply to  Allan Sheath
6 months ago

There is conscience opt out too for not ordaining women.A growing part of the church thinks that’s not working well.

Hilary Dawes
Hilary Dawes
6 months ago

Very good to see Jeremy Morris’s blog appearing. At a time when theologically accomplished historians of the Church of England are in such short supply, it was very refreshing to read this piece.

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