Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 9 February 2019

Andrew Lightbown Theore0 Talking of inclusivity, offence and rejection

Stephen Parsons Surviving Church Why do Christians seem preoccupied by sex?

Ted Harrison Church Times Beware the use of banal and meaningless slogans
“Think carefully before creating one, … and make sure to avoid these common pitfalls”

Marcus Walker Catholic Herald Why Anglo-Catholicism appeals to millennials

Meg Warner ViaMedia.News Elephants, Penguins, Procreation & Japanese Knotweed

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KateHighchurchwomannotflourishingMark BennetNJBRod Gillis Recent comment authors
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Tim Chesterton
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Preoccupation with sex is hardly a distinctively Christian thing in the early 21st century. Anyone taken a look at popular media lately?

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

I think the difference is that the popular media by and large consider sex to be enjoyable, natural and desirable, whereas Christians, or at least the church, seem to consider it to be none of these things and therefore want to control who does what with whom. In that sense the church is not so very different from Mars Hill.

Tim Chesterton
Guest

All is not exactly well outside the church either, Richard. See https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/

Janet Fife
Guest
Janet Fife

I think the question is, why should the Church be following the world’s example in being preoccupied with sex?

Laurie Roberts
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Laurie Roberts

Oh, the Church is preoccupied with sex, inho – but not in a creative or even helpful way. A shame for an incarnational religion isn’t it ?

Richard Ashby
Guest
Richard Ashby

In his ‘Point of view’ on Sunday morning Will Self talked about the Abrahamic religions and their ‘spiritual disgust for the incarnate’. Sums up the situation very pithily I think.

Janet Fife
Guest
Janet Fife

Judaism is very earthy and not afraid of the physical. I think considering our bodies to be opposed to our spiritual lives may owe more to Classical Greek and Roman philosophies and religion – especially Gnosticism.

Tim Chesterton
Guest

See, I don’t think the Church is preoccupied with sex. Our hosts here at Thinking Anglicans point us to many excellent articles, covering many aspects of the Church’s life (mainly in the UK, but also in the wider Anglican world). But it is almost always the pieces about gender and sexuality that get the long comment threads. The other subjects, some of them vitally important, often pass with little or no comment. This would certainly give the impression that the readership of Thinking Anglicans is preoccupied with sex. But that simply means that we’re not in agreement about the subject,… Read more »

Fr John Emlyn Harris-White
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Fr John Emlyn Harris-White

Unfortunately the Catholic Herald article does not appear.

Fr John Emlyn

EDITOR: It appears for me, now.

Father Ron Smith
Guest

Andrew Lightbown should be made a bishop. He has the charity, the gravitas and the plain common sense – not always present in those ‘chosen’.

Shamus
Guest
Shamus

I believe Ted Harrison’s article is important. We are surrounded by jargon in church life, and the repetitive use of “in” words such as “resilience” and “flourishing” can soon empty the force and usefulness of them. The trend in recent years to attach the word “mission” to everything is similarly unhelpful, and I believe a turn off to those not “in the know”. Is there a Christian Plain English Society?

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

Re: The Marcus Walker piece, interesting report of some growth in a certain kind of Anglo-catholicism. Yet, there is this line, “Latin Masses, east-facing liturgies: these are the order of the day for those rebelling against their peers and parents.” Some rebellion, rebelling against one’s peers and parents by enthusiastically conforming to the religious sensibilities of one’s grand parents or great grand parents. Interesting how liturgical conservatives define a ‘traditionalist’ as someone stuck in the era between Vatican I and Vatican II; but someone who is interested in much earlier Christian sources is somehow not a ‘traditionalist’. Reading the tea… Read more »

Tim Chesterton
Guest

I’ve run into this phenomenon in the folk music world too, Rod. ‘Old folk songs’ means songs by Bob Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel. When you say ‘No, they’re still new – I’m talking about the anonymous songs passed down through the generations over hundreds of years’ people look at you blankly…!

Kate
Guest
Kate

I didn’t realise that authorised liturgy included a Latin Mass for it to be increasing in popularity for Anglo Catholics.

Rod Gillis
Guest
Rod Gillis

With regard to Latin masses and ad orientem, I took it he was talking about R.C. seminarians in Rome in the first instance,”…most of Rome’s young seminarians are liturgical traditionalists.” Hyperbolic but not untrue.Interestingly Robert Cardinal Sarah has been corrected by the pope for both his pro ad orientem remarks and for stepping on the toes of local bishops re: liturgical text translations. Yet the cardinal has counseled ‘traditionalist’ R.C. youth not to describe themseleves as such. Walker adds, “Anecdotal evidence suggests that this is broadly true across the Anglosphere for the young laity.” He may have had the ad… Read more »

NJB
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NJB

Technically Latin has always been authorised in the Universities and other places where it was (until relatively recently) a lingua franca. (http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1560/BCP_Latin1560.htm) Unless things have changed recently, there was always a Latin celebration of the liturgy within the University at the beginning of each term. More widely, I am pretty sure that Common Worship allows for musical settings within the liturgy to be sung in their original language or translation. Though pushing it slightly, the format of A Service of the Word (with or without Holy Communion) only provides a structure, and does not specify any but a very limited… Read more »

Mark Bennet
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Mark Bennet

Canon B42.2 is relevant here, which I quote for convenience below: B 42 Of the language of divine service 1. (1) Subject to the following provisions of this Canon, authorized forms of services shall be said or sung in English. (2) In the provinces of Canterbury and York outside England authorized forms of service may be said or sung in the vernacular. 2. Authorized forms of service may be said or sung in Latin in the following places – Provincial Convocations Chapels and other public places in university colleges and halls University churches The colleges of Westminster, Winchester and Eton… Read more »

Highchurchwomannotflourishing
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Highchurchwomannotflourishing

The Byrd 4 part mass is a sublime piece of music – his other masses are really good as well. Our young choir members adore them (the congregation does too) and we do sing them in Latin. It may simply be that some exquisite music has Latin text.

Kate
Guest
Kate

In which case aren’t we back to music and the Latin Mass point the author was making is something of a stretch then?